base talk How much bigger would Beyonce be had she never stopped chasing the charts?

[swissman]

29 minutes ago, Homebrand said:

Some of the replies in this thread

 

ST and Lemonade were full fledged eras with multiple high profile (and fantastic) performances. Every song getting a video is promo (or marketing), do y’all not understand that?

 

As a couple users have mentioned, Beyonce is well surpassed radio candy  singles at this point in her career. She is also one of the most established artists of all time, do y’all really expect her to be doing traditional promo like she was in previous eras???

 

However, let’s not forget Bey also jumped on the remixes for Savage and Perfect which were obviously big songs before she jumped on them. BMS had its radio deal.  She never stopped chasing the charts this entire time.

None of this points to "chasing hits", does it? The things mentioned are album promo, not singles promo.

 

The performances during both ST and Lemonade were great, but most of them were not timely as far as promoting the single released at the time. For example, the closest performance-to-single-releases of those eras mentioned were Drunk in Love and XO, both around two months after the singles were released, and Formation which was performed the same weekend of the single's release, but also not released for purchase, wide streaming, or to radio, only given away for free and its video left on unlisted. Or, we have All Night being performed in October 2016 and then becoming a single in December 2016, but that performance was at a TIDAL concert. That's hardly a way to chase a hit. During ST, she could have easily chased a hit by releasing the ***Flawless Nicki Minaj remix to iTunes/streaming upon debut and yet instead she released it to Soundcloud, where exactly 0 streams would contribute to the Hot 100 or any sales data.

As for releasing a video per song, that's absolutely marketing, but it also slightly squashes the success/impact of any one video being released to promote the singles, as anything but the lead singles' videos would have been released months and months ago, creating very little buzz and impact when the songs are named singles.

Anyway, as stated, Savage was a rising hit when the remix was released, peaking lower than many of Beyoncé's "non-hits" like Sorry and Hold Up. Perfect was not even a single when Beyoncé was asked to record it. In Ed Sheeran's words, "we finished [the song] in September, so I’ve been holding onto it since then”. As of the end of September, 2017, Perfect was nowhere on the Hot 100. Neither are examples of her "chasing hits". They're simply collaborations with other big artists. She also put very little into the success of them aside from their creation.

 

 

Edited October 1, 2023 by swissman

[liquiddiamonds]

10 minutes ago, perpetual novice said:

I think the opposite of what this thread implies is true, if Bey continued down the trend chasing path of Sasha Fierce for multiple records she wouldn't have sustained the cultural relevancy she still holds today. I always find it puzzling when Bey's success is questioned on this website because the longevity she has enjoyed is extremely rare and NONE of the artists she is constantly paired up against on here have experienced it themselves. Bey has been a successful entertainer since Michael Jackson was still releasing hit records. She has been around for a lifetime in this industry and is still a main figure in today's entertainment even for younger audiences. That is insane and you can't really improve upon that commercial performance because it's literally every artists dream scenario already.

 

Squabbling over chart peaks, first week numbers and features on other people's singles when talking about BEYONCE is crazy.

I fully cosign this. How more successful could she be in her context? I think if she had played the dated pop star promo tactics people would have dragged her just like they did to other pop stars after a certain age that were fully in the spotlight. I’m in the minority but I love how bey changed gears and can turn herself off from pop culture whenever she wants and still smash without overexposure

Edited October 1, 2023 by liquiddiamonds

[byzantium]

2 minutes ago, Otter said:

That music videos aren't going to reduce the tour attendance in response to your post

I'm genuinely confused.  So you think that if she did not make groundbreaking visual albums and instead did a more traditional release, she would be more successful? This is what I am not following. 

 

 

3 minutes ago, Otter said:

Essentially there's a lot of self sabotage and it doesn't really swing both ways. I think the only thing to consider is that Lemonade wouldn't have had as much physical sales if the album was on Spotify etc but she could of easily of just released the singles to those platform & had her cake and eat it 

 

I also wish Lemonade was on spotify earlier.  It was one of my favorite albums of the decade and It was annoying that I could not add it to my playlists.  That said, I don't think any of the songs would have been massive successes on streaming like a Dua Lipa album.  She was chasing different goals.  I think it might have helped renaissance though because it would have established more relationships with Spotify users (in a similar way that it took taylor swift years, and multiple album cycles to establish herself on the platform.)

[swissman]

Her lack of chasing hits is a double edged sword. It fast-tracked her legend-status, making her feel at once out of reach, mysterious and larger-than-life and yet currently relevant and of-the-moment, but it also made her have less hits, which is indeed to her statistical detriment and has at times limited her audiences who might have contributed to a larger commercial moment in any given project. Still, I actually find stuff like "she hadn't had a #1 in a decade" to be more of a receipt of her power, because honestly which pop-star only grows in notoriety, fame and respect while continuing to not have major hits? Any examples I can think of have relied on branching out of music in order to gain success/continued relevance, whereas Beyoncé's notoriety, fame and respect increased because of the musical eras she created, not in spite of them.

 

I think had she chased hits insofar as catering the songs to genres that were hot, and giving us fluffy pop songs (not just releasing singles properly and promoting them), she'd probably end up like most 2000s stars as an icon of pop, but not quite the legend-in-the-moment that she has become. Many of them will still find legend hood, but that'll take time, distance and nostalgia to create, whereas Beyoncé did that in realtime with her artistry.

[Kimi]

If she was super obsessed with being best selling female of her time her music would be different,it would always be what's currently the most popular with as many trendy collabs as possible

[Rotunda]

Her legacy is probably still the same.

 

Formation goes #1

Hold Up/Sorry/Alien Superstar go Top 10 

Lemonade/ST recurrent streams are higher.

We didn’t really miss out on too much tbh.

 

Bey’s issue is less that she doesn’t still pursue commercial success, but that she doesn’t measure commercial success in the same way that fans do. She’s more compensation-driven than accolades driven. She wants to push physical or digital albums over streaming numbers, she wants massive tours, she wants to have lucrative brand deals, and she wants to broker deals for her visuals/films. 
 

I think she’s realized that she actually has to acknowledge modern trends and modern consumption methods, even if it’s just to make sure she can keep interest high so that she can still continue to push high tour numbers, physical sales, and deals for her visual films or side projects. 

Edited October 1, 2023 by Rotunda

[supaspaz]

She would have one of the biggest tours of all time. Oh, wait…

[AxelFox]

44 minutes ago, perpetual novice said:

I think the opposite of what this thread implies is true, if Bey continued down the trend chasing path of Sasha Fierce for multiple records she wouldn't have sustained the cultural relevancy she still holds today. I always find it puzzling when Bey's success is questioned on this website because the longevity she has enjoyed is extremely rare and NONE of the artists she is constantly paired up against on here have experienced it themselves. Bey has been a successful entertainer since Michael Jackson was still releasing hit records. She has been around for a lifetime in this industry and is still a main figure in today's entertainment even for younger audiences. That is insane and you can't really improve upon that commercial performance because it's literally every artists dream scenario already.

 

Squabbling over chart peaks, first week numbers and features on other people's singles when talking about BEYONCE is crazy.

Thank you!

[Devin]

Her legacy wouldn’t change. She would just have higher charting singles with more 1B+ streams.

 

Actually this thread proves NUMBERS and STATS don’t always matter.

[Mystic Boy]

Lemonade and Renaissance promo were BUTCHERED  

Especially Lem,and anybody thinking otherwise is clearly ignorant..

 

[awong918]

Y'al... promoting music != chasing charts 

Her music has been "arts not the charts" for a while now. If she released trendy, GP-friendly music she'd obviously do much better on the charts, but she wouldn't be as respected and as big of a celebrity as she is nowadays.

[lonnie]

She'd have had more number ones and less acclaim. She might have also alienated part of her fanbase and relied more on the public for support which might have meant less first week opening numbers for her sales. It might have meant that she wouldn't have been the most acclaimed female pop musician of her time as she later became. She might have had more streams. All of which is to say, generally, you can't have everything. With every choice made, something is gained and something is lost. There's no saying for sure how things might've gone if 4 was mostly a dancepop/EDM album instead of mostly R&B. She might have had a smash era following IASF and she might've also underperformed and might've  been taken less seriously as an artist. 

Edited October 2, 2023 by lonnie

[Fitzswiftie]

On 10/1/2023 at 3:43 PM, swissman said:

Her lack of chasing hits is a double edged sword. It fast-tracked her legend-status, making her feel at once out of reach, mysterious and larger-than-life and yet currently relevant and of-the-moment, but it also made her have less hits, which is indeed to her statistical detriment and has at times limited her audiences who might have contributed to a larger commercial moment in any given project. Still, I actually find stuff like "she hadn't had a #1 in a decade" to be more of a receipt of her power, because honestly which pop-star only grows in notoriety, fame and respect while continuing to not have major hits? Any examples I can think of have relied on branching out of music in order to gain success/continued relevance, whereas Beyoncé's notoriety, fame and respect increased because of the musical eras she created, not in spite of them.

 

The only one I can think of is Kanye in the 2010s, which isn’t even that good of a comparison since, like you said, he branched out into fashion, released music at quicker rate, is more dependent on his features being good than himself and for the most of the decade was doing everything in his power to ruin his legacy.

[Soda Pop Queen]

On 10/1/2023 at 7:00 AM, Antisocialites said:

the fumes already

 

 

LOL baby they ABHOR that she has managed to not only stay apart of the conversation for this long, but CHANGE the conversation all while eschewing traditional promo tactics and stepping back from the media. They can't stand it. Her musical relevance was supposed to fade like all the other elder millennium women did after the early 10s. The hilarious part is some of their young favs have copied parts of her playbook in the last 10 years. I won't name names because there have been several and I peep game. 

 

Could she have even more top 10 hits had she stayed the pre-set course? obviously but the fact that she's still successful in spite of straying from the mold IS the gag and part of what makes her name endure and her legacy formidable. 

Edited October 4, 2023 by Soda Pop Queen

[prézli]

She still does. Perfect Remix, Savage Remix, etc. It's like hidden marketing.

[Klein]

I think the fact she stopped chasing the charts is what gave her her current status. Chasing the charts is a hit or miss, while cementing a legacy is forever. I'm not sure it would have fared better for her all things considered if she did chase the charts. 

[Gayoncé]

She would be the biggest.

 

With proper promotion, ALL of these songs could have gone #1:

 

- Drunk in Love

- Partition

- Haunted

- Flawless (Nicki Minaj Remix)

- 7/11

- Formation

- Hold Up

- Sorry

- Black Parade

- Cuff It

- Alien Superstar

- America Has a Problem

 

And out of her collaborations:

- Mi Gente

- Apeshit

 

And her albums, Everything is Love, The Gift and Homecoming would have gone #1 too.

 

With such a long list of potential chart-toppers, it's undeniable that nobody could touch her if she tried more.

[littlebodybigheart]

she doesn’t have the demand, so no difference really

[Gayoncé]

14 minutes ago, littlebodybigheart said:

she doesn’t have the demand, so no difference really

Let me remind you of a little something called the SOLD OUT tours around the globe! The way stadiums and arenas fill up within moments when tickets drop is PROOF of Beyoncé's unmatched demand! And don't you dare underestimate all the awards, accolades, and record-breaking sales she's achieved throughout her career! 🏆📀 Beyoncé's music has the power to unite millions, inspire greatness, and empower people of all backgrounds. She's more than an artist, she's a motherfucking LEGEND!

 

To you and all the other haters, Queen Bey is here to stay! 🐝🔥 Bow down to THE QUEEN, or get left behind, BÎTCH! 💋💁‍♀️

Edited November 10, 2023 by Gayoncé

[littlebodybigheart]

Just now, Gayoncé said:

Let me remind you of a little something called the SOLD OUT tours around the globe! The way stadiums and arenas fill up within moments when tickets drop is PROOF of Beyoncé's unmatched demand! And don't you dare underestimate all the awards, accolades, and record-breaking sales she's achieved throughout her career! 🏆📀 Beyoncé's music has the power to unite millions, inspire greatness, and empower people of all backgrounds. She's more than an artist, she's a motherfucking LEGEND!

 

To you and all the other haters, Queen Bey is here to stay! 🐝🔥 Bow down to THE QUEEN, or get left behind, *****! 💋💁‍♀️

not reading this but i said what i said 

[Gayoncé]

8 minutes ago, littlebodybigheart said:

not reading this but i said what i said 

You might try to act illiterate, but I just can't let this slide, lmao! A Queen deserves respect, but you decided to throw shade and then cowardly dismiss my reply like it didn't matter. Well, honey, it DOES matter! 💁‍♀️

 

First of all, let's talk about bravery. It seems like you got plenty of it when it comes to spreading negativity about Beyoncé. But suddenly, when confronted with some facts, you conveniently chose to act like you didn't read it. How convenient! 

 

So, dear ""littlebodybigheart"", let me enlighten you with some facts you so rudely decided to ignore. Beyoncé is a visionary, a philanthropist, and a vocal advocate for equality and justice. Her immense success, influence, and the unwavering support from her loyal BeyHive and casual fans all over the world.

 

Next time, before you come for Queen Bey, think twice. Your words won't diminish her greatness, nor will they stop people from celebrating her and her achievements.

 

Actually, I feel sorry for you. I know you try to act like you won't read this, but you will. And deep down, you know you're missing out on witnessing Beyoncé's unparalleled talent and pure magic. 🎼✨

[littlebodybigheart]

1 hour ago, Gayoncé said:

You might try to act illiterate, but I just can't let this slide, lmao! A Queen deserves respect, but you decided to throw shade and then cowardly dismiss my reply like it didn't matter. Well, honey, it DOES matter! 💁‍♀️

 

First of all, let's talk about bravery. It seems like you got plenty of it when it comes to spreading negativity about Beyoncé. But suddenly, when confronted with some facts, you conveniently chose to act like you didn't read it. How convenient! 

 

So, dear ""littlebodybigheart"", let me enlighten you with some facts you so rudely decided to ignore. Beyoncé is a visionary, a philanthropist, and a vocal advocate for equality and justice. Her immense success, influence, and the unwavering support from her loyal BeyHive and casual fans all over the world.

 

Next time, before you come for Queen Bey, think twice. Your words won't diminish her greatness, nor will they stop people from celebrating her and her achievements.

 

Actually, I feel sorry for you. I know you try to act like you won't read this, but you will. And deep down, you know you're missing out on witnessing Beyoncé's unparalleled talent and pure magic. 🎼✨

LMAO