lael Posted June 25 Posted June 25 On 11/13/2023 at 3:41 PM, Gayoncé said: This. Shakira is bigger in Latin America, most of Europe, India and the Middle East than Beyonce. Beyonce is bigger in the anglosphere and southeast Asia.
Inverted Posted June 25 Posted June 25 On 11/13/2023 at 3:53 PM, Gayoncé said: This is one of the most delusional things I have read on this website. Just.. Selena is not global, relevant, or noteworthy in any way when it comes to music. Maybe she might be relevant on Instagram, but even there her followers are probably half bots. I love you called me "delusional" when your own response is dictionary definition of delusion. I literally provided a link showing evidence of Selena Gomez's streaming power in India. And the last line in your response is just a complete lie. I don't even care for Selena or like her, but she is definitely global and was relevant when it came to music. 2 hours ago, lael said: Shakira is bigger in Latin America, most of Europe, India and the Middle East than Beyonce. Beyonce is bigger in the anglosphere and southeast Asia. Shakira is bigger in India how? Her last big hit in India was Waka Waka. You can argue that she has a bigger following, but even Break Your Soul had traction (for a western song) on streaming in India unlike any of Shakira's releases since Waka Waka.
AvadaKedavra Posted June 25 Posted June 25 Shakira used to be huge but she forgot about the anglo world and only releases music in spanish appealing to latinos. People say spanish music is enough but i disagree U need to release in english to be a strong global superstar 1
shakeyourbombom Posted June 25 Posted June 25 (edited) 1 hour ago, Inverted said: I love you called me "delusional" when your own response is dictionary definition of delusion. I literally provided a link showing evidence of Selena Gomez's streaming power in India. And the last line in your response is just a complete lie. I don't even care for Selena or like her, but she is definitely global and was relevant when it came to music. Shakira is bigger in India how? Her last big hit in India was Waka Waka. You can argue that she has a bigger following, but even Break Your Soul had traction (for a western song) on streaming in India unlike any of Shakira's releases since Waka Waka. Follower on India's Ganna: Justin Bieber - 0.9M Selena Gomez - 0.3M Taylor Swift - 0.3M Ed Sheeran - 0.3M Arina Grande - 0.1M Shakira - 91K Rihanna - 69K Katy Perry - 62K Jennifer Lopez - 57K Nicki Minaj - 55K Beyonce - 35K Britney Spears - 32K Lady Gaga - 22K Adele - 20K Christina Aguilera - 5.6K (Incomplete list) So Shakira is basically the biggest in India among her peers even tho you claimed she has "nO hITs" after Waka Waka. Streaming is a late 2010s thing mind you Edited June 25 by shakeyourbombom 1
Inverted Posted June 26 Posted June 26 20 hours ago, shakeyourbombom said: Follower on India's Ganna: Justin Bieber - 0.9M Selena Gomez - 0.3M Taylor Swift - 0.3M Ed Sheeran - 0.3M Arina Grande - 0.1M Shakira - 91K Rihanna - 69K Katy Perry - 62K Jennifer Lopez - 57K Nicki Minaj - 55K Beyonce - 35K Britney Spears - 32K Lady Gaga - 22K Adele - 20K Christina Aguilera - 5.6K (Incomplete list) So Shakira is basically the biggest in India among her peers even tho you claimed she has "nO hITs" after Waka Waka. Streaming is a late 2010s thing mind you It's Gaana* and no one in India uses that anymore. Spotify and YouTube are the biggest streaming platforms in India. Moreover, how does the number of followers on Gaana (a dying platform) show that Shakira has had hits in India since Waka Waka? The illogical delusion. P.S. Gaga and Adele have the biggest streaming numbers for western artists on Spotify. The fact that you believe the number of Gaana subscribers is a good indicator of popularity is embarrassing. What's next? Last FM?
lael Posted June 26 Posted June 26 On 6/25/2024 at 12:49 PM, Inverted said: I love you called me "delusional" when your own response is dictionary definition of delusion. I literally provided a link showing evidence of Selena Gomez's streaming power in India. And the last line in your response is just a complete lie. I don't even care for Selena or like her, but she is definitely global and was relevant when it came to music. Shakira is bigger in India how? Her last big hit in India was Waka Waka. You can argue that she has a bigger following, but even Break Your Soul had traction (for a western song) on streaming in India unlike any of Shakira's releases since Waka Waka. There are bollywood songs based on Shakira: Her songs have been performed as Bollywood numbers. Her albums have gone multiplantium there. She also broke concert attendance records there for an international female artist. 1
lael Posted June 26 Posted June 26 On 6/25/2024 at 12:49 PM, Inverted said: I love you called me "delusional" when your own response is dictionary definition of delusion. I literally provided a link showing evidence of Selena Gomez's streaming power in India. And the last line in your response is just a complete lie. I don't even care for Selena or like her, but she is definitely global and was relevant when it came to music. Shakira is bigger in India how? Her last big hit in India was Waka Waka. You can argue that she has a bigger following, but even Break Your Soul had traction (for a western song) on streaming in India unlike any of Shakira's releases since Waka Waka. A Bollywood number based on Shakira's Ojos Asi: There is no argument that can be made that Beyonce is bigger in India than Shakira. Overall, Shakira is more internationally known than Beyonce, but Beyonce is bigger in the bigger music markets. Japan and the South Korea are much bigger music markets than Middle Eastern countries and India despite the latter consisting of more countries and territories. 1
Inverted Posted June 26 Posted June 26 4 minutes ago, lael said: There are bollywood songs based on Shakira: Her songs have been performed as Bollywood numbers. Her albums have gone multiplantium there. She also broke concert attendance records there for an international female artist. a) There are two Bollywood songs named "Shakira." There are also ones named "Aaliyah" and "Layla". These are not references to the singers. Those are common names among Muslims in India. b) Her songs have not been featured in any Bollywood movies. They've been used for performances by Bollywood actors at shows, but so have the Pussycat Dolls, Jennifer Lopez, Beyonce, Selena Gomez, etc. c) Her albums have not gone "multiplatinum" in India. India didn't even have a way to measure album sales until recently. d) Your concert attendance fact is 100% true, but she doesn't have any competition among females. The only other international female artist to ever perform a full concert in India is Beyonce. Beyonce's numbers weren't far from Shakira's (20,000 vs 16,000).
Inverted Posted June 26 Posted June 26 (edited) 23 minutes ago, lael said: A Bollywood number based on Shakira's Ojos Asi: There is no argument that can be made that Beyonce is bigger in India than Shakira. Overall, Shakira is more internationally known than Beyonce, but Beyonce is bigger in the bigger music markets. Japan and the South Korea are much bigger music markets than Middle Eastern countries and India despite the latter consisting of more countries and territories. Bollywood has copied many international music videos and performances, especially in the 90s and 00s. If your evidence for Shakira being the most popular is a Bollywood item number that copied Ojos Asi, the same can be done for other international acts including Beyonce. 1) Beyonce's VMA 2006 routine copied and pasted: 2) Beyonce is also SPECIFICALLY referenced in a song where the man sings that the girl's dancing would Beyonce to shame: 3) Beyonce's Dangerously in Love album art copied and pasted: 4) Elements of Beyonce's Crazy and Love copied and pasted: 5) Copy of Baby Boy by Beyonce and Sean Paul: 6) Copy of Deja Vu by Beyonce: There are a few random examples I found for Beyonce. I could probably find more. And it's not just Beyonce. Jennifer Lopez and other major western acts has been copied many times. This is the most explicit copy of Dance Again: Edited June 26 by Inverted 1
lael Posted June 26 Posted June 26 12 minutes ago, Inverted said: Bollywood has copied many international music videos and performances, especially in the 90s and 00s. If your evidence for Shakira being the most popular is a Bollywood item number that copied Ojos Asi, the same can be done for other international acts including Beyonce. 1) Beyonce's VMA 2006 routine copied and pasted: 2) Beyonce is also SPECIFICALLY referenced in a song where the man sings that the girl's dancing would Beyonce to shame: 3) Beyonce's Dangerously in Love album art copied and pasted: 4) Elements of Beyonce's Crazy and Love copied and pasted: 5) Copy of Baby Boy by Beyonce and Sean Paul: 6) Copy of Deja Vu by Beyonce: There are a few random examples I found for Beyonce. I could probably find more. And it's not just Beyonce. Jennifer Lopez and other major western acts has been copied many times. This is the most explicit copy of Dance Again: In that first Bollywood number, the entertainer is comparing herself to Shakira. Also, this website breaks down record sales by country, but I am not sure how accurate the website is especially with regards to India: https://bestsellingalbums.org/artist/11772 https://bestsellingalbums.org/artist/1402 According to this website, Beyonce did not sell enough for there to be any data in the first place. Las Mujeres Ya No Lloran was number 1 on the Indian itunes album chart, so she is still relevant there:
lael Posted June 26 Posted June 26 Laundry Service was certified 8x platinum in India: https://bestsellingalbums.org/album/41135 Waka Waka is one of the best selling singles in India of all time. Beyonce is still big in India to draw a crowd of 16,000, but Shakira is still the bigger artist in India. The reverse is true for China. Shakira is well known in China, but Beyonce is the bigger artist there. 1
Inverted Posted June 26 Posted June 26 1 hour ago, lael said: In that first Bollywood number, the entertainer is comparing herself to Shakira. Also, this website breaks down record sales by country, but I am not sure how accurate the website is especially with regards to India: https://bestsellingalbums.org/artist/11772 https://bestsellingalbums.org/artist/1402 According to this website, Beyonce did not sell enough for there to be any data in the first place. Las Mujeres Ya No Lloran was number 1 on the Indian itunes album chart, so she is still relevant there: 1 hour ago, lael said: Laundry Service was certified 8x platinum in India: https://bestsellingalbums.org/album/41135 Waka Waka is one of the best selling singles in India of all time. Beyonce is still big in India to draw a crowd of 16,000, but Shakira is still the bigger artist in India. The reverse is true for China. Shakira is well known in China, but Beyonce is the bigger artist there. a) The song "Shakira" does not have any lyrics comparing herself to Shakira. I can understand Hindi/Urdu and can confirm that's 100% false. You can translate the lyrics yourself using Google Translate if you don't believe me. b) That website is completely unreliable. India never had system to count legal sales for albums or singles until the digital and streaming era post-2010. Where on earth did they get those numbers for Laundry Service? Other than Japan and South Korea and maybe Taiwan, the vast majority of Asian countries has never had official methods to count legal sales since bootlegging was the norm. c) I wouldn't use iTunes as a measure of popularity. Like in most countries, no one uses that. Even Jennifer Lopez's "Can't Get Enough" did well on iTunes India, but not on Spotify or YouTube among Indian streamers. It was a flop. d) Waka Waka is the still one of the best selling international singles in India. That's correct. e) There is no way to definitively say Shakira is the bigger today just because "Waka Waka" was so big and her 2006 concert was bigger. Please also note that Shakira's venue was bigger. Beyonce's was a smaller arena. 1
lael Posted June 26 Posted June 26 16 minutes ago, Inverted said: a) The song "Shakira" does not have any lyrics comparing herself to Shakira. I can understand Hindi/Urdu and can confirm that's 100% false. You can translate the lyrics yourself using Google Translate if you don't believe me. b) That website is completely unreliable. India never had system to count legal sales for albums or singles until the digital and streaming era post-2010. Where on earth did they get those numbers for Laundry Service? Other than Japan and South Korea and maybe Taiwan, the vast majority of Asian countries has never had official methods to count legal sales since bootlegging was the norm. c) I wouldn't use iTunes as a measure of popularity. Like in most countries, no one uses that. Even Jennifer Lopez's "Can't Get Enough" did well on iTunes India, but not on Spotify or YouTube among Indian streamers. It was a flop. d) Waka Waka is the still one of the best selling international singles in India. That's correct. e) There is no way to definitively say Shakira is the bigger today just because "Waka Waka" was so big and her 2006 concert was bigger. Please also note that Shakira's venue was bigger. Beyonce's was a smaller arena. I am not talking about bigger today, I am talking about who is the bigger artist in India overall throughout their careers. This article does mention that Laundry Service was certified in India: https://elpais.com/diario/2002/03/15/agenda/1016146809_850215.html There is no evidence that Beyonce is the bigger artist in India. 1
shakeyourbombom Posted June 26 Posted June 26 (edited) 6 hours ago, Inverted said: It's Gaana* and no one in India uses that anymore. Spotify and YouTube are the biggest streaming platforms in India. Moreover, how does the number of followers on Gaana (a dying platform) show that Shakira has had hits in India since Waka Waka? The illogical delusion. P.S. Gaga and Adele have the biggest streaming numbers for western artists on Spotify. The fact that you believe the number of Gaana subscribers is a good indicator of popularity is embarrassing. What's next? Last FM? Streaming is a thing after mid-2010s so no matter whether it's a thing or not right now, it shows your narrative is wrong. She was still relevant in India during 2010s. Actually JioSaavn and Gaana are the only two Indian streaming platforms with over 200 million subscribers. Source: https://routenote.com/blog/is-india-the-worlds-biggest-music-streaming-market/#:~:text=In recent years%2C the introduction,massive userbase in the region. Edited June 26 by shakeyourbombom
LegaMyth Posted June 26 Posted June 26 Nope. Asia is part of the world and Shakira never impact the continent. 1
shakeyourbombom Posted June 26 Posted June 26 6 minutes ago, LegaMyth said: Nope. Asia is part of the world and Shakira never impact the continent. Shakira has the highest streams in China among her peers, that says a lot. 1
Inverted Posted June 27 Posted June 27 21 hours ago, lael said: I am not talking about bigger today, I am talking about who is the bigger artist in India overall throughout their careers. This article does mention that Laundry Service was certified in India: https://elpais.com/diario/2002/03/15/agenda/1016146809_850215.html There is no evidence that Beyonce is the bigger artist in India. I'm sorry, but how does El Pais (a source that has no affiliation in India whatsoever) have to authority to state Laundry Service is certified in India? The IMI is the only source that can certify albums in India and the Laundry Service is not certified. As for there being no evidence of Beyonce being big, all the actual evidence (not non-existent certifications) you used for Shakira being big are YouTube videos where Shakira is mentioned or copied in India and the fact that her concert was huge. I gave even more examples for Beyonce being copied and also showed that Beyonce's concert attendance (at a smaller venue in a different city) were big also. Just because Shakira had 5,000 more attendees at a venue in a city doesn't show Shakira being infinitely bigger. Moreover, this whole conversation is about NOW, not in 2007-2008. Break Your Soul did decently on Spotify India. Shakira hasn't had anything do decent on streaming in India since Waka Waka almost 15 years ago. 19 hours ago, shakeyourbombom said: Streaming is a thing after mid-2010s so no matter whether it's a thing or not right now, it shows your narrative is wrong. She was still relevant in India during 2010s. Actually JioSaavn and Gaana are the only two Indian streaming platforms with over 200 million subscribers. Source: https://routenote.com/blog/is-india-the-worlds-biggest-music-streaming-market/#:~:text=In recent years%2C the introduction,massive userbase in the region. I'd worry more about your narrative. JioSaavn and Gaana are dead. Gaana only has 50 million active subscribers (down from around 100 million in the late 2010s): https://www.moengage.com/blog/case-study-gaana-drives-engagement-boost-premium-subscription-moengage/ On the other hand, Spotify India's active subscribers have increased to 55 million: https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/tech-bytes/no-drastic-impact-on-revenue-user-base-due-to-feature-restrictions-spotify-india-md/articleshow/108079123.cms 1
shakeyourbombom Posted June 28 Posted June 28 9 hours ago, Inverted said: I'm sorry, but how does El Pais (a source that has no affiliation in India whatsoever) have to authority to state Laundry Service is certified in India? The IMI is the only source that can certify albums in India and the Laundry Service is not certified. As for there being no evidence of Beyonce being big, all the actual evidence (not non-existent certifications) you used for Shakira being big are YouTube videos where Shakira is mentioned or copied in India and the fact that her concert was huge. I gave even more examples for Beyonce being copied and also showed that Beyonce's concert attendance (at a smaller venue in a different city) were big also. Just because Shakira had 5,000 more attendees at a venue in a city doesn't show Shakira being infinitely bigger. Moreover, this whole conversation is about NOW, not in 2007-2008. Break Your Soul did decently on Spotify India. Shakira hasn't had anything do decent on streaming in India since Waka Waka almost 15 years ago. I'd worry more about your narrative. JioSaavn and Gaana are dead. Gaana only has 50 million active subscribers (down from around 100 million in the late 2010s): https://www.moengage.com/blog/case-study-gaana-drives-engagement-boost-premium-subscription-moengage/ On the other hand, Spotify India's active subscribers have increased to 55 million: https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/tech-bytes/no-drastic-impact-on-revenue-user-base-due-to-feature-restrictions-spotify-india-md/articleshow/108079123.cms Worry about your fave's career than Shakira's. 6:52 Tour of the Mongoose Press Conference - Laundry Service - 5x Platinum in India
Inverted Posted June 28 Posted June 28 14 hours ago, shakeyourbombom said: Worry about your fave's career than Shakira's. 6:52 Tour of the Mongoose Press Conference - Laundry Service - 5x Platinum in India I'd take your own advice since you have the bigger habit of spending so much time in Jennifer Lopez threads. And nice try. Your fellow fan above claims it's 8x platinum in India. You claim 5x platinum. Where is the source for this? The IMI has not certified the album. 1
shakeyourbombom Posted June 28 Posted June 28 4 minutes ago, Inverted said: I'd take your own advice since you have the bigger habit of spending so much time in Jennifer Lopez threads. And nice try. Your fellow fan above claims it's 8x platinum in India. You claim 5x platinum. Where is the source for this? The IMI has not certified the album. The source is from Shakira's label which was announced during the press conference of her own Tour of the Mongoose. Do you know certifications can be updated after that? Of course that's not the same case for Jennifer Lopez because her last 10 years records have almost nothing to update. I dropped comments with one or two sentences unlike you typed a whole paragraph in Shakira's threads. And yes, I can have my own comments. 1
Inverted Posted June 28 Posted June 28 6 minutes ago, shakeyourbombom said: The source is from Shakira's label which was announced during the press conference of her own Tour of the Mongoose. Do you know certifications can be updated after that? Of course that's not the same case for Jennifer Lopez because her last 10 years records have almost nothing to update. I dropped comments with one or two sentences unlike you typed a whole paragraph in Shakira's threads. And yes, I can have my own comments. And where exactly did Shakira's label get those stats when the IMI doesn't even have that certification? You're always lying and making things up. And lol, that's a joke. You write speeches in Jennifer Lopez threads and even take screen caps that you have saved on your desktop. Like some of your responses are whole power point presentations. And yes, you can have your comments and I can have mine. The difference between us is that I don't need to make up alternative, unverified "facts."
shakeyourbombom Posted June 28 Posted June 28 (edited) 1 hour ago, Inverted said: And where exactly did Shakira's label get those stats when the IMI doesn't even have that certification? You're always lying and making things up. And lol, that's a joke. You write speeches in Jennifer Lopez threads and even take screen caps that you have saved on your desktop. Like some of your responses are whole power point presentations. And yes, you can have your comments and I can have mine. The difference between us is that I don't need to make up alternative, unverified "facts." Don't act like you don't know. A lot of certification entities no longer exist after decades. It does not mean you can change the facts these records were certified when those entities certified them. These are verified facts. Shakira's certified/ reported facts will be A LOT more if these entities still exist, not limited to India but also Argentina, Colombia, Ecuador, Turkey, Egypt etc. Record label>>>>>>>>>>>> Delusional you I was providing FACTS how poorly sold her cancelled tour was. Seems you are very unhappy about the facts. Are they unverified facts to you now? I have never said you cannot have yours. But the way how you replied me seems like I can't drop any comments on Jennifer Lopez. No, I can, just like what you did here in a Shakira thread. However, I will bring up receipts and facts to expose you. Edited June 28 by shakeyourbombom 1
Inverted Posted June 28 Posted June 28 15 minutes ago, shakeyourbombom said: Don't act like you don't know. A lot of certification entities no longer exist after decades. It does not mean you can change the facts these records were certified when those entities certified them. These are verified facts. Shakira's certified/ reported facts will be A LOT more if these entities still exist, not limited to India but also Argentina, Colombia, Ecuador, Turkey, Egypt etc. Record label>>>>>>>>>>>> Delusional you I was providing FACTS how poorly sold her cancelled tour was. Seems you are very unhappy about the facts. Are they unverified facts to you now? I have never said you cannot have yours. But the way how you replied me seems like I can't drop any comments on Jennifer Lopez. No, I can, just like what you did here in a Shakira thread. However, I will bring up receipts and facts to expose you. I'm not unhappy about any facts. I called you out of on your hypocrisy. You tried to mock me on my "speeches" when you write whole PowerPoint presentations. So now you're a liar and a hypocrite. LOL @ "receipts" and "delusional." You lied again! The IMI does still exist as a certification entity to this day (the only reliable one in India) and has existed since 1936, but they cannot verify your "reported facts" because they're lies. Real talk: Labels always make up international numbers without actual sources. Sony/Columbia claims Ricky Martin has 70+ million worldwide record sales, but the vast majority of the sales/certifications they use for Asia and Latin America cannot be verified. How is this possible when 99% of these countries cannot actually verify music consumption pre-2010?
shakeyourbombom Posted June 28 Posted June 28 2 hours ago, Inverted said: I'm not unhappy about any facts. I called you out of on your hypocrisy. You tried to mock me on my "speeches" when you write whole PowerPoint presentations. So now you're a liar and a hypocrite. LOL @ "receipts" and "delusional." You lied again! The IMI does still exist as a certification entity to this day (the only reliable one in India) and has existed since 1936, but they cannot verify your "reported facts" because they're lies. Real talk: Labels always make up international numbers without actual sources. Sony/Columbia claims Ricky Martin has 70+ million worldwide record sales, but the vast majority of the sales/certifications they use for Asia and Latin America cannot be verified. How is this possible when 99% of these countries cannot actually verify music consumption pre-2010? The last time I checked IMI only had like 3 international and 8 or 9 Indian records certified, does that make sense to you? Remember, a lot of information was lost after decades. I have already provided you an info showing Laundry Service was certified in India. Perhaps it's your turn to show me which Jennifer Lopez's record was certified in India? Exactly, just like AKA and This is me now, none, 0 certification . Do you really believe Ricky Martin have not sold 70 million?😂 That's Ricky Martin bro, not Jennifer Lopez. He's a professional singer.
lael Posted June 29 Posted June 29 6 hours ago, Inverted said: And where exactly did Shakira's label get those stats when the IMI doesn't even have that certification? You're always lying and making things up. And lol, that's a joke. You write speeches in Jennifer Lopez threads and even take screen caps that you have saved on your desktop. Like some of your responses are whole power point presentations. And yes, you can have your comments and I can have mine. The difference between us is that I don't need to make up alternative, unverified "facts." Where's the evidence that Beyonce is bigger than Shakira in India when taking their careers as a whole into account? 1
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