news Israeli liberal: we should kill children, but with a government we trust

[Jjang]

you can’t write this ****  

These are the so called heroes protesting the new government in Israel - which many people mistake them for caring for Palestinian rights when in reality they weren’t even in the equation to begin with. 

 

 

the specific quote with additional context: 

 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CxaYHkCtnU6/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

 

Edited September 21, 2023 by Jjang

[blackoutbaby]

That sucks

Edited September 21, 2023 by blackoutbaby

[Devin]

[Virgos Groove]

Least genocidal Zionist

[Minogue]

So a quote made by one person?

[Jjang]

26 minutes ago, Taylena said:

So they're like Democrats in the United States. Not shocking at all. 

well, at the very least Democrats in the US don’t pretend still that the Jim Crow South should be the status quo so I appreciate the comparison in spirit but it’s still not a perfect analogy. 

 

21 minutes ago, Minogue said:

So a quote made by one person?

well, considering only 3% of Israelis voted for anti - occupation parties last election I don’t believe this is a rare opinion. In fact, I know that most Israeli liberals have the same mentality but just for the case of the argument. 

Edited September 21, 2023 by Jjang

[ZIVERT]

39 minutes ago, Minogue said:

So a quote made by one person?

Mind you two-three weeks ago the focus of one of the main protest of the week was against the mistreatment and blatant racism against Arab Israelis by the racist government.

 

While anyone who advocates for the murder of children is vile and should be punished, the intention of this narrative is to demonize Israelis as a whole, which is disingenuous. There are numerous examples of Palestinians also celebrating when Israeli children are murdered in terrorist attacks, and the Palestinian Authority provides money for families of terrorists that are “martyred.” The narrative being pushed about Israelis here could easily be mirrored towards Palestinians, but doing that only helps create more animosity.
 

The bottom line is murdering children is abhorrent, no matter who the murderer is.

[Minogue]

27 minutes ago, Jjang said:

well, at the very least Democrats in the US don’t pretend still that the Jim Crow South should be the status quo so I appreciate the comparison in spirit but it’s still not a perfect analogy. 

 

well, considering only 3% of Israelis voted for anti - occupation parties last election I don’t believe this is a rare opinion. In fact, I know that most Israeli liberals have the same mentality but just for the case of the argument. 

So 97% of Israelis want to kill children?  I wonder what would be the response if that same assumption was applied to any other group. 

Edited September 21, 2023 by Minogue

[N.M.K.]

And here’s an article of people in Palestine celebrating the death and wounding of Israelis, including teens: 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/palestinians-celebrate-jerusalem-synagogue-massacre-with-fireworks-sweets/

 

Or should we discuss Alham Tamimi, who still lives free in Jordan, who planned a bombing of a pizza parlor that killed sixteen people, including eight children and a pregnant woman, and continued to go on interviews celebrating the murders?

We can pick and highlight inflammatory comments and people all we want- but what are you even trying to accomplish? Other than to flame tensions on a pop forum and make things even worse for those who live through the reality of this conflict? Get a grip. 

[Jjang]

19 minutes ago, N.M.K. said:

And here’s an article of people in Palestine celebrating the death and wounding of Israelis, including teens: 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/palestinians-celebrate-jerusalem-synagogue-massacre-with-fireworks-sweets/

 

Or should we discuss Alham Tamimi, who still lives free in Jordan, who planned a bombing of a pizza parlor that killed sixteen people, including eight children and a pregnant woman, and continued to go on interviews celebrating the murders?

We can pick and highlight inflammatory comments and people all we want- but what are you even trying to accomplish? Other than to flame tensions on a pop forum and make things even worse for those who live through the reality of this conflict? Get a grip. 

 

 

I know it’s well within your comfort zone to make this a “who hates who more?” argument for the sake of deflection. But nothing will deflect from the fact that one group is an occupier and the other is occupied. one group is implementing an apartheid regime while the other group is systematically living under the mercy of it. Palestinians don’t have to be perfect victims in order for their systematic oppression to be acknowledged. 

The point of this thread is to showcase how context blind the average Israeli is and the pro-Israelis and Israelis alike coming straight to deflect from this sentiment is furthermore a prime perfect example of that context blindness. 

Edited September 21, 2023 by Jjang

[N.M.K.]

1 minute ago, Jjang said:

 

 

I know it’s well within your comfort zone to make this a “who hates who more?” argument for the sake of deflection. But nothing will deflect from the fact that one group is an occupier and the other is occupied. one group is implementing an apartheid regime while the other group is systematically living under the mercy of it. 

The point of this thread is to showcase how context blind the average Israeli is and the pro-Israelis and Israelis alike coming straight to deflect from this sentiment is furthermore a prime perfect example of that context blindness. 

Are we going to ignore that the rallying call of the Palestinian liberation movement is “from the River to the sea?” You do know what that means right, and what that implies? I am not going to sit here and defend expanded settlements or Israel’s current government, but I also won’t sit back and listen to inflammatory, unproductive comments rooted in (seemingly intentional) misrepresentation. For example, you really are going to insulate 97% of Israelis want to kill children? Have you stepped foot in Israel before? In the West Bank?

 

it’s not my job to educate you on the history and background of Jews in Israel as well as what has led to the current status of Palestinians and Israelis. But I can tell you are wholly uninformed, intentionally being misleading, or - likely - both, so I’ll leave it there. 

[Jjang]

15 minutes ago, N.M.K. said:

Are we going to ignore that the rallying call of the Palestinian liberation movement is “from the River to the sea?” You do know what that means right, and what that implies? I am not going to sit here and defend expanded settlements or Israel’s current government, but I also won’t sit back and listen to inflammatory, unproductive comments rooted in (seemingly intentional) misrepresentation. For example, you really are going to insulate 97% of Israelis want to kill children? Have you stepped foot in Israel before? In the West Bank?

 

it’s not my job to educate you on the history and background of Jews in Israel as well as what has led to the current status of Palestinians and Israelis. But I can tell you are wholly uninformed, intentionally being misleading, or - likely - both, so I’ll leave it there. 

the same old echo chamber of claiming Palestinians are genetically born barbarians who “want to throw Jews to the sea” (check the map smartass, Palestine is between the river and the sea, it means from that river, to that sea, Palestinians will be free)  and more fascist nationalistic rambling about how an ancient kingdom somehow justifies a century long indefinite apartheid regime, illegal military occupation and ethnic cleansing. Everything you will say has already been clocked by me to depth so feel free to check my post history on that matter. 

 

97% of Israelis voted yes for an illegal occupation that brutalizes Palestinians (incl. Children) on a daily basis. Point blank. 

 

Edited September 21, 2023 by Jjang

[N.M.K.]

12 minutes ago, Jjang said:

the same old echo chamber of claiming Palestinians are genetically born barbarians who “want to throw Jews to the sea” (check the map smartass, Palestine is between the river and the sea, it means from that river, to that sea, Palestinians will be free)  and more fascist nationalistic rambling about how an ancient kingdom somehow justifies a century long indefinite apartheid regime, illegal military occupation and ethnic cleansing. Everything you will say has already been clocked by me to depth so feel free to check my post history on that matter. 

 

97% of Israelis voted yes for an illegal occupation that brutalizes Palestinians (incl. Children) on a daily basis. Point blank. 

 

Lmao what. Your string of buzz words does nothing to the substance. But yeah okay good luck out there and I really do recommend some research. 

[Jjang]

7 minutes ago, N.M.K. said:

Lmao what. Your string of buzz words does nothing to the substance. But yeah okay good luck out there and I really do recommend some research. 

you calling apartheid, illegal military occupation and land theft “buzz words” is precisely why there’s no need to engage with people like your mr. “from the river to the sea means Palestinians want to throw Jews to the sea” 

 

and thank you for proving my point of how the average Israeli thinks. your service is noted. 

 

Edited September 21, 2023 by Jjang

[Jjang]

13 hours ago, Virgos Groove said:

Least genocidal Zionist

no cause it’s actually comedic that they’re trying to sugarcoat the fact that the average Israeli is pro-occupation (which kills children and teens almost on a daily basis) or how the average Israeli is inhumanely desensitized to the fact that Gaza (which consists of a population of 50% teens/children) is an open air prison that lives under genocidal conditions. 

 

also “were not defending illegal settlements of the current government” as if the previous government, or the one before that, or before that, or before that… or before that wasn’t pro-occupation as well. 

 

Their deflection tactics are almost successful, I’ll give them that. A liberal Zionist is truly an oxymoron. 

[Communion]

13 hours ago, N.M.K. said:

And here’s an article of people in Palestine celebrating the death

Is the discussion about both sides "equally" celebrating deaths meant to make someone come to the incorrect assumption that both countries inflict the same amount of violence onto one another?

 

What should one take from the below graphic?

 

 

 

[Embustera]

I am not surprised.

[ZIVERT]

5 hours ago, Communion said:

Is the discussion about both sides "equally" celebrating deaths meant to make someone come to the incorrect assumption that both countries inflict the same amount of violence onto one another?

 

What should one take from the below graphic?

 

 

 

Wow, this chart really puts it into perspective for me. There have been more Ukrainian civilian casualties in a year and a half of war than any citizen casualty in the last ~20 years of on and off war in Israel and Palestine. of course it goes without saying that one civilian’s death is worth more than another’s but it does show the difference between when a country has regard for human life during war or conflict, and when one doesn’t.

 

[Johnny Jacobs]

19 hours ago, Jjang said:

the same old echo chamber of claiming Palestinians are genetically born barbarians who “want to throw Jews to the sea” (check the map smartass, Palestine is between the river and the sea, it means from that river, to that sea, Palestinians will be free)  and more fascist nationalistic rambling about how an ancient kingdom somehow justifies a century long indefinite apartheid regime, illegal military occupation and ethnic cleansing. Everything you will say has already been clocked by me to depth so feel free to check my post history on that matter. 

 

97% of Israelis voted yes for an illegal occupation that brutalizes Palestinians (incl. Children) on a daily basis. Point blank. 

 

 

 

Palestinian always give candy away and make a holiday to celebrate murdering and terror attacks on families and children. and i can tell you that those terror attacks happen on monthly basis at least. thats not barbaric?

 

it is. point blank.

[Communion]

1 hour ago, ZIVERT said:

 more Ukrainian civilian casualties in a year and a half of war

So you're acknowledging Israel has indeed launched a war against Palestine, which would be required to even feel the need to compare the numbers of casualties between such events then, yes?

 

I think this is progress for you after your hard right-turn back in like 2018 (I think? I can't remember what year you last acknowledge Israel was committing apartheid before your 180) where you suddenly changed your view on Palestinians and have since defended Israel despite the overwhelming elephant in the room that Ukraine and Palestine are basically parallel events, with both victims to totalitarian forces who seek their ultimate destruction. 

 

Maybe you're finally close to de-radicalizing yourself from viewing Palestinians as sub-human.

 

Edit - I was gonna end my post there, but I do have to acknowledge this, which is particularly foul for you to utter and shows a deep rooted hatred in you to Palestinians:

 

1 hour ago, ZIVERT said:

when a country has regard for human life

Something tells me I won't find numbers you like if we decide to compare the ratios between Israeli vs Palestinian deaths and Russian vs Ukrainian deaths - something you mysteriously have decided to ignore despite what my graph showed.

 

Does Israel "value life in war" if it kills, for example, 10x more Palestinians than it sees Israelis die? What would your defense be if Israel's ratio of Palestinians killed vs Israelis killed is substantially bigger than the ratio of how many Ukrainians were killed by Russia vs Russians killed by Ukraine?

 

Most news outlets have shown the death ratios between Russia and Ukraine to be 1:1 through Russia's invasion, and since Russian started the war, we know that the 1:1 ratio is evidence of Russian's brutality and cruelty.

 

So tell me, if we can acknowledge Russia killing 1 Ukrainian for every Russian that dies in the name of their idiotic invasion is barbarism... what do you want us to take away from the current ratio of Israel killing 21 Palestinians for every 1 Israeli citizen that has died? A 21:1 ratio is "showing restraint during times of war"? 

 

What a horrifically tone-deaf thing to even say that ultimately discredits your voice.

Edited September 22, 2023 by Communion

[Mr. Mendes]

It is an indisputable fact that Israel is the aggressor in this conflict. They’re an apartheid nation that has managed to gain support in that undertaking from some of the most influential nations in the world by playing on said nations’ deep rooted prejudices against Arabs and fears about terrorism. 

 

That is the truth of the matter. 

 

However, I’m not sure that this is the way to go about criticizing that.

 

It is one thing to discuss the actions of a nation as an entity as that is rather black and white. It is another thing entirely to zoom in and discuss this conflict on an individual, person to person level as that would require a discussion as nuanced and complex as the attitudes and thoughts of individuals on either side of this. 

 

And frankly I’m not sure that ATRL is capable of discussing things with that level of nuance and complexity. 

Edited September 22, 2023 by Mr. Mendes

[ZIVERT]

35 minutes ago, Communion said:

So you're acknowledging Israel has indeed launched a war against Palestine, which would be required to even feel the need to compare the numbers of casualties between such events then, yes?

 

I think this is progress for you after your hard right-turn back in like 2018 (I think? I can't remember what year you last acknowledge Israel was committing apartheid before your 180) where you suddenly changed your view on Palestinians and have since defended Israel despite the overwhelming elephant in the room that Ukraine and Palestine are basically parallel events, with both victims to totalitarian forces who seek their ultimate destruction. 

 

Maybe you're finally close to de-radicalizing yourself from viewing Palestinians as sub-human.

 

Edit - I was gonna end my post there, but I do have to acknowledge this, which is particularly foul for you to utter and shows a deep rooted hatred in you to Palestinians:

 

Something tells me I won't find numbers you like if we decide to compare the ratios between Israeli vs Palestinian deaths and Russian vs Ukrainian deaths - something you mysteriously have decided to ignore despite what my graph showed.

 

Does Israel "value life in war" if it kills, for example, 10x more Palestinians than it sees Israelis die? What would your defense be if Israel's ratio of Palestinians killed vs Israelis killed is substantially bigger than the ratio of how many Ukrainians were killed by Russia vs Russians killed by Ukraine?

 

Most news outlets have shown the death ratios between Russia and Ukraine to be 1:1 through Russia's invasion, and since Russian started the war, we know that the 1:1 ratio is evidence of Russian's brutality and cruelty.

 

So tell me, if we can acknowledge Russia killing 1 Ukrainian for every Russian that dies in the name of their idiotic invasion is barbarism... what do you want us to take away from the current ratio of Israel killing 21 Palestinians for every 1 Israeli citizen that has died? A 21:1 ratio is "showing restraint during times of war"? 

 

What a horrifically tone-deaf thing to even say that ultimately discredits your voice.

Tl;dr. But I assume you’re mad about me making a comparison between the Russian invasion of Ukraine and the Israel/Palestine conflict, which is weird since you love to do that in other threads. I guess it’s only okay to do that when it supports your narrative 

[Communion]

10 minutes ago, ZIVERT said:

I assume you’re mad about 

I'm mad you said a 21:1 death ratio was "Israel valuing life". Learn to read, especially if you're going to post genocide denial

 

49 minutes ago, Communion said:

So tell me, if we can acknowledge Russia killing 1 Ukrainian for every Russian that dies in the name of their idiotic invasion is barbarism... what do you want us to take away from the current ratio of Israel killing 21 Palestinians for every 1 Israeli citizen that has died? A 21:1 ratio is "showing restraint during times of war"? 

People compare Israel's crimes against Palestine to Russia's crimes against Ukraine to get Israel's defenders like you to see its cruelty and highlight that both are issues. You're the only one deciding to make a comparison to discredit and downplay one. 

Edited September 22, 2023 by Communion

[ZIVERT]

15 minutes ago, Communion said:

I'm mad you said a 21:1 death ratio was "Israel valuing life". Learn to read, especially if you're going to post genocide denial

 

 

So stay mad, idk what you want me to say. You’re the one constantly comparing both conflicts in every thread I comment on, but now you’re angry that the numbers don’t match  Posting a ratio to make it seem like the total number of civilian deaths in the Israel/Palestine conflict is more than the Russian invasion of Ukraine is just you trying to save your narrative. Civilian death during war is a tragedy, period.
 

Speaking of political pivots and past histories, it’s interesting you’re angry about supposed genocide denial now when you have gone on length to say the Holodomor never happened, initially defended Russia’s right to invade Ukraine until the Bucha massacre was publicized, and have continuously defended the Chinese “re-education” of Uyghur “terrorists.” Masking your hypocrisy with college theses-length posts doesn’t hide what you are.
 

But engaging in your style of “attempt to throw dirt on the person I’m arguing with in order to elicit an emotional response from others” is beneath me, so this will be the last response you get from me in this thread. Have the day you deserve

 

OT: Anyone who celebrates the murder of children should be punished.

Edited September 22, 2023 by ZIVERT

[Communion]

18 minutes ago, ZIVERT said:

you’re angry that the numbers don’t match 

Sis, the numbers don't match FOR YOU. You decided in a discussion about Israel and Palestine to argue somehow it is fine that Israel kills 21x more Palestinians than the other way around by pointing that Ukrainian deaths in a totally unrelated war were greater than Palestinians deaths. What the ****? Do you understand why most people would be offended and grossed out by someone randomly making that assertion? How would you feel if someone said Ukrainians don't matter and that Russia shows a value for life because the number of Ukrainian deaths is dwarfed by the number of Afghans and Iraqis killer by America in the war on terror? That's literally what you've just done. You've not only made a joke out of Ukrainian suffering but have done so as a consequence of trying to needlessly weaponize it to defend Palestinian suffering. 

 

Literally most other people understand that Israel is on the wrong side of history and their actions mirror Russia's - INCLUDING YOU JUST 5 YEARS AGO. 

 

That you have done such a sudden about face and defend horrors you just a few years ago yourself were calling apartheid can only be taken as trolling, which is why you do blatant trolling attempts like this:

39 minutes ago, ZIVERT said:

Posting a ratio to make it seem like the total deaths... is more than...

Because no one did this.

 

Literally no one was talking about Ukraine? You literally introduced them as a topic of discussion in here explicitly to downplay Israeli barbarism and the undisputable fact that Israel kills Palestinians without discretion. You're literally applauding Israel as "valuing life" for a 21:1 kill ratio. 

 

It really is going to be easier to just report instead of engage at this point.