news West Point sued by group that ended affirmative action, seeks end to SCOTUS exception

[Vermillion]

 

[Vrx.]

That will that end poaching of young and impoverished minorities in low socioeconomic areas so I’m curious to see what the defense will be 

[Tropez]

8 minutes ago, Vrx. said:

That will that end poaching of young and impoverished minorities in low socioeconomic areas so I’m curious to see what the defense will be 

This is West Point. Totally different. Most of these people will end up as officers, generals and others in powerful positions. The process is complicated, and very rigorous. Like you have to have recommendations from your state government officials, physical and mental evaluations, etc. 

 

The reason this exists is because soldiers during the Vietnam War were led by generals who were mostly white. This caused huge racial tensions in the military. So West Point changed their process to follow the demographics of the military. 

[Vrx.]

4 minutes ago, Tropez said:

This is West Point. Totally different. Most of these people will end up as officers, generals and others in powerful positions. The process is complicated, and very rigorous. Like you have to have recommendations from your state government officials, physical and mental evaluations, etc. 

 

The reason this exists is because soldiers during the Vietnam War were led by generals who were mostly white. This caused huge racial tensions in the military. So West Point changed their process to follow the demographics of the military. 

It should apply to all military schools, not just West Point, including ROTC which is classified under the umbrella 

[Tropez]

47 minutes ago, Vrx. said:

It should apply to all military schools, not just West Point, including ROTC which is classified under the umbrella 

They are targeting West Point because it is the most prestigious and demanding. Same reason why they went after Harvard and other elite colleges. That’s the point of these cases. West Point is far more important than other military school. Considering the US does not have a draft system. 

[Vermillion]

5 minutes ago, Tropez said:

They are targeting West Point because it is the most prestigious and demanding. Same reason why they went after Harvard and other elite colleges. That’s the point of these cases. West Point is far more important than other military school. Considering the US does not have a draft system. 

Well then the question is the ruling's applicability to other military schools. If SCOTUS still carves an exception, I'll be fascinated to see the pretzels they twist themselves into to defend it.

[Tropez]

6 minutes ago, Espresso said:

Well then the question is the ruling's applicability to other military schools. If SCOTUS still carves an exception, I'll be fascinated to see the pretzels they twist themselves into to defend it.

There’s a chance they will. The Court is reluctant to meddle in affairs of the military. The military is arguing this will have massive consequences to the US military as it can sow racial tension which they want to avoid. 

[Vrx.]

1 hour ago, Tropez said:

They are targeting West Point because it is the most prestigious and demanding. Same reason why they went after Harvard and other elite colleges. That’s the point of these cases. West Point is far more important than other military school. Considering the US does not have a draft system. 

Ok, but the precedent is for all, not just one

[Tropez]

1 hour ago, Vrx. said:

Ok, but the precedent is for all, not just one

I don’t get your point. That’s why these cases exist. 

[ClashAndBurn]

On 9/19/2023 at 6:12 PM, Tropez said:

There’s a chance they will. The Court is reluctant to meddle in affairs of the military. The military is arguing this will have massive consequences to the US military as it can sow racial tension which they want to avoid. 

Affirmative Action itself would create racial resentment among white soldiers, no? Seems like an unwinnable battle, and the carve out itself is incredibly arbitrary.

 

I support AA by the way, but I just don’t see how the court could maintain legitimacy by not striking down this exception.

[Tropez]

3 minutes ago, ClashAndBurn said:

Affirmative Action itself would create racial resentment among white soldiers, no? Seems like an unwinnable battle, and the carve out itself is incredibly arbitrary.

 

I support AA by the way, but I just don’t see how the court could maintain legitimacy by not striking down this exception.

It does not actually. We need to stop thinking the AA used in the military is the same as used in education. It is not the same at all. 
 

Without AA. The military would have no women, and little to no POC in positions of power. Please read on why the military enforced this after the Vietnam War. The gist of this is military leadership must reflect the demographics of its soldiers. If you have a primarily white male leadership, and a diverse group in the lower ranks. It’s creates issues of leadership. Thus demoralizing the US military. 
 

That’s the key point. The military is seeking diversity in positions of power. The Supreme Court agreed and made an exemption for the military. This case wants to destroy that. Creating nasty consequences in the future. 

[ClashAndBurn]

1 hour ago, Tropez said:

It does not actually. We need to stop thinking the AA used in the military is the same as used in education. It is not the same at all. 
 

Without AA. The military would have no women, and little to no POC in positions of power. Please read on why the military enforced this after the Vietnam War. The gist of this is military leadership must reflect the demographics of its soldiers. If you have a primarily white male leadership, and a diverse group in the lower ranks. It’s creates issues of leadership. Thus demoralizing the US military. 
 

That’s the key point. The military is seeking diversity in positions of power. The Supreme Court agreed and made an exemption for the military. This case wants to destroy that. Creating nasty consequences in the future. 

I’m aware of what the consequences would be, but the Court’s function is not to take into account the consequences of its rulings, but to apply the law blindly across all aspects of life. If AA were to be a protected unstuffed policy in the military, it would need to be constitutionally protected in a way that Congress would never be willing to do. Enforcement of laws (and as such, weighing the consequences of policy enactment) is up to the discretion of the Executive Branch anyway, so the President and military could theoretically ignore the ruling, but that would itself create a constitutional crisis that Biden would avoid at all costs due to his adherence to being an institutionalist. Biden himself would face a legitimate impeachment threat, even though he’d be easily acquitted on a party line vote.

[Tropez]

6 hours ago, ClashAndBurn said:

I’m aware of what the consequences would be, but the Court’s function is not to take into account the consequences of its rulings, but to apply the law blindly across all aspects of life. If AA were to be a protected unstuffed policy in the military, it would need to be constitutionally protected in a way that Congress would never be willing to do. Enforcement of laws (and as such, weighing the consequences of policy enactment) is up to the discretion of the Executive Branch anyway, so the President and military could theoretically ignore the ruling, but that would itself create a constitutional crisis that Biden would avoid at all costs due to his adherence to being an institutionalist. Biden himself would face a legitimate impeachment threat, even though he’d be easily acquitted on a party line vote.

I think that’s the reason the Court made an exemption specifically for the military that the ruling did not apply to them.