news US's first Muslim-majority city bans pride flag

[kataraqueen]

3 minutes ago, igninton said:

Just to check... you do know that "latinos" are literally an ethnicity born from biracial white European and native peoples mixing right? If you don't then Google is your friend.

 

I'm obviously talking about South America here, what the British did in North America and how they wiped out almost every native off the face of the Earth is - of course- a different story...  

Yea I do and I feel like that's in line with what I said

 

i meant kicked out of power, not like to the death 

[wastedpotential]

8 minutes ago, Blue Rose said:

if you want a more accurate comparison, let’s look at each religion age:

- Islam: 1445 years

- Christianity: 2023 years. Go back and compare what the Church was doing to gays, kids and women back in the 15th century

Pray tell, what does the 15th century have to do with the world today in 2023? Why does it matter what happened six centuries ago when there are still thousands of gay people being imprisoned or killed for who they love, TODAY 

 

We can discuss the historical legacies later (how Christianity has clearly changed on this issue in the years since the 15th century, while Islam hasn't), but right now shouldn't the priority be to stop the violence and oppression of gay people 

[ScorpiosGroove]

Europe to the US : 

[HeavyMetalAura]

32 minutes ago, Badgalbriel said:

I don't know you, sorry

But you do 

[kataraqueen]

Y'all are literally falling for a propaganda machine. I'm not saying we should get hatecrimed, the opposite actually. But just know our enemy is not an entire religion and if you want to actually fix anything, you should look at more specific things 

[Blue Rose]

5 minutes ago, Aristotle said:

Stop pulling things out of your ass.

or you can just go educate yourself . let’s start here https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neocolonialism#:~:text=Neocolonialism takes the form of,indirect political control (hegemony).

[ProudLBS]

5 minutes ago, Blue Rose said:

Where do you think the homophobia in Africa comes from? From white people who descended on the continent with their Christian agenda and to this day they are still sending people on missionary trips  

South Africa was colonized too and they were the 5th (FIFTH) country to legalize same-sex marriage in the world.

 

Don’t infantilize an entire continent.

[Riverbank]

This is just sad. Can't say I'm shocked tho

 

Spoiler

 

[Redstreak]

7 minutes ago, MingYouToo said:

But we are? My disdain for Islam does not negate my dislike for Christianity, your implying an imposed characterization of US the users here based off of YOUR assumptions. I dislike Christianity just as much as Islam but in this very moment are my people being systemically disparaged by Christians? No. Its the Muslims doing that to my people, of course in a thread ABOUT Muslim-majority cities, Muslim the religion will be what is talked about. 

 

Disdain for one does not imply support for the other like-? Isn't that obvious?

 

Your arguing about a circle in a conversation about squares please lmao 

Maybe *you* are, but this site? Do you think if some town in the south did this (which has already happened in multiple multiple places) it would have already gotten seven pages in an hour? Not even the woman who got actually killed for a pride flag got this many pages

[Blue Rose]

5 minutes ago, wastedpotential said:

Pray tell, what does the 15th century have to do with the world today in 2023? Why does it matter what happened six centuries ago when there are still thousands of gay people being imprisoned or killed for who they love, TODAY 

 

We can discuss the historical legacies later (how Christianity has clearly changed on this issue in the years since the 15th century, while Islam hasn't), but right now shouldn't the priority be to stop the violence and oppression of gay people 

The point is Islam is centuries ahead of Christianity when it comes to treating people. Obviously they are not perfect but it’s unfair to act like Christians aren’t also mistreating the lgbt community even in 2023. Let’s hate both equally 

[Trent W]

48 minutes ago, Badgalbriel said:

It was OK defending Islam in 2015 because we were defending them against the far-right.

 

Now they have joined forces against us. This is something that I never saw coming. 

Literally the same for me

 

I defended islam last decade, but this can’t get a pass anymore, that religion needs to be stopped and called out.

[Witnessed ET]

8 minutes ago, Blue Rose said:

Where do you think the homophobia in Africa comes from? From white people who descended on the continent with their Christian agenda and to this day they are still sending people on missionary trips  

True, the fact that homosexuality was widely depicted in my own religion Hinduism since millennia but suddenly it became a taboo after the Christian agenda and later the western imperial forces pushed their “it’s a sin” narrative on everyone there. It’s sad really. 

[Nido]

I mean, I understand why some people are triggered by the attack on their faith cause it might comes off as generalization but it's not exactly uncalled for because their own religion has also been the reason for plenty of discriminations, beheadings, burnings and death penalties that are happening in modern day society.. You don't just bring up "progressive Muslims" as a talking point without mentioning that these people are MINORITIES among their own people, which doesn't reflects the popular ideology of Islam itself. 

 

[igninton]

4 minutes ago, ProudLBS said:

South Africa was colonized too and they were the 5th (FIFTH) country to legalize same-sex marriage in the world.

 

Don’t infantilize an entire continent.

Same sex marriage was also legal in Argentina, Brazil and Uruguay even before it was legal in Germany, France or the UK. 

 

These damn excuses are lacking.

 

Edited September 19, 2023 by igninton

[Blue Rose]

1 minute ago, ProudLBS said:

South Africa was colonized too and they were the 5th (FIFTH) country to legalize same-sex marriage in the world.

 

Don’t infantilize an entire continent.

But you guys are infantilizing billions of people because of the actions of one group in Michigan

going by your own post, it’s clear that there are good Muslims and bad Muslims, which is the same for every religion.

[Talento]

1 minute ago, Redstreak said:

Maybe *you* are, but this site? Do you think if some town in the south did this (which has already happened in multiple multiple places) it would have already gotten seven pages in an hour? Not even the woman who got actually killed for a pride flag got this many pages

These threads don't get seven pages because no one shows up to defend Christianity and ramble about "b-b-but not all Christians!". 

 

Crazy concept right? 

[kataraqueen]

2 minutes ago, ProudLBS said:

South Africa was colonized too and they were the 5th (FIFTH) country to legalize same-sex marriage in the world.

 

Don’t infantilize an entire continent.

South Africa was ran by WHITE people south african is literally just dutch remixed

 

I'm sorry but the way you guys ignore my point about how western countries actively letting the extremists come into power in the middle east for oil is so telling

 

Not to mention that I got downvoted in my comment where I highlighted the massacre of Bosnia which honestly 

[Communion]

12 minutes ago, MingYouToo said:

 in YOUR (keyword: YOUR) ideal forum, HOW should WE, queer people, REACT and FEEL to these statements? 

"Wow, that's awful. Conservatives are so hateful and need to leave queer people alone."

 

What else do you actually think would be productive discussion that you feel is missing?

 

Why is not finding their Muslim identity an essential part of the discussion apparently unacceptable? I can only assume that's how you or others feel because 1) objectively not a single thread has ever shown anyone defending a conservative Muslim attacking queer people despite the claim of so that seems to happen because 2) those not finding someone's Muslim identity as the reason FOR their bigotry always draws anger from some people. 

 

"You're defending an inherently evil ideology!". No, I just don't think being Muslim and being conservative are synonyms and that progressive goals aren't achieved better by acting like they are. 

[PoisonedIvy]

This is just really sad. I seriously don’t understand having this level of hatred for the lives of other people

[Navy4Life]

1 minute ago, kataraqueen said:

South Africa was ran by WHITE people south african is literally just dutch remixed

 

I'm sorry but the way you guys ignore my point about how western countries actively letting the extremists come into power in the middle east for oil is so telling

 

Not to mention that I got downvoted in my comment where I highlighted the massacre of Bosnia which honestly 

So Europeans are good or bad?  

[wastedpotential]

9 minutes ago, Blue Rose said:

Where do you think the homophobia in Africa comes from? From white people who descended on the continent with their Christian agenda and to this day they are still sending people on missionary trips  

In sub-Saharan Africa, sure much of the individual homophobia in modern times can be derived from the pentecostalist missionaries, however this thread is about Hamtramck, a city largely settled by Yemeni, Syrian, Bengali, and Pakistani immigrants, who derive their homophobic attitudes from their chosen interpretations of the Quran, which far pre-dates any European colonialism or Christian missionaries (unless one wants to count the Crusades as missionaries, which I think is pretty disengenouous. Additionally, with the exception of Uganda, every single country in Africa with a life sentence or death penalty for homosexuality derives their law from their Islamic heritage. Even many of the countries in sub-Saharan Africa with strict imprisonment laws (Namibia, Zambia, Zimbabwe, Kenya, Burundi) are currently considering repealing their sodomy laws (or already have, like Rwanda and Botswana)

[Jynx]

B-but guys! It's 2023 and we have progressive muslims too!1 This is terrible, conservative muslims are ruining yet another community with their archaic views and are also spreading anti-LGBTQIA+ rhetoric.....but here's an irrelevant picture of a liberal muslim woman with the pride flag, in a city where it's not banned because there's no muslim majority! She was elected by 200,000 people! Who really wants to focus on a muslim majority city banning people from expressing their identity with a pride flag when we can instead focus on this one shining example of a liberal muslim!

 

[MingYouToo]

1 minute ago, Blue Rose said:

The point is Islam is centuries ahead of Christianity when it comes to treating people. Obviously they are not perfect but it’s unfair to act like Christians aren’t also mistreating the lgbt community even in 2023. Let’s hate both equally 

NOWHERE in the initial replies before this back and forth was that EVER implied? You and Redstreak are constantly making assumptions about posters here when NO ONE was ever implying Christianity historically wasnt as bad as Islam now. 

 

But the concern is on the NOW, youre treating this issue like its some primetime HISTORY channel analysis moment for you to bring your academic goggles on about hurrdurr the hIsToRy oF hOmOpHoBiA iN rElIgIoN, your entire talking point is just basically boiled down to: guys of ATRL, always remember the in history: Christianity was just as bad. AND? 

 

Do you have a portal to the 1500s where we can physically do anything about it? No? What about now? Who's the one doing the active systemic attacks on us now? Is it the Christians? Because it sure as hell isn't. 

 

Your whole argument rests on adding nuance to the discourse but WHAT THEN? Yes youre adding story beats and fleshing out their history but what can we do with your information? Twiddle our thumbs and make history posters? The here and NOW Muslims are actively hurting our community. History can wait another day. Our anger is valid. 

[Nido]

I mean one of y'all are literally calling others that live in Islamic countries "self-hating" for speaking against the skewed ideology of their own religion. Do you think the MAJORITY of the Muslim population even AGREE with the so-called "progressive Muslims" on topics like gay rights and women rights??

[wastedpotential]

6 minutes ago, Blue Rose said:

The point is Islam is centuries ahead of Christianity when it comes to treating people. Obviously they are not perfect but it’s unfair to act like Christians aren’t also mistreating the lgbt community even in 2023. Let’s hate both equally 

So we have to equate the conservative Christian hatred of gay people, which *for the most part* consists of social shaming and ostracization (and *for the most part* occurs in countries with strong hate crime protections for gay people) with the conservative Islamic hatred of gay people, which consists of extreme prison sentences or summary executions. And we have to equate the two, because it's not fair to Islam because it's 5 centuries behind the developments of Christianity. Right... Is it not fair to the gay people being killed that we stand up for them now? What about the periods of early Islam (circa 750-1250AD) where Islam was much more intellectual, developed, and progressive than the Christianity of the time? If Islam is on a strict timeline that will equate it to Christianity today in about 5 centuries, what about the times in the past when the roles have been reversed?