poll Were you expecting Taylor's level of success for Gaga?

[Rep2000]

On 9/5/2023 at 4:53 AM, GraceRandolph said:

Is Taylor really more ambitious than Gaga though? I’d say Taylor has never been more ambitious than early Gaga. Gaga performed in an IKEA parking lot, collabed with Polaroid, planned a joint tour with Kanye, launched a social media site, campaigned against DADT, wrote a song for Cher, feuded with Madonna, and released a politically charged album before her career was even five years old. 

And now one of them is burnt out and rather making Pfizer commercial than releasing music, while the other is making history with the biggest tour of her career.

[GraceRandolph]

4 minutes ago, Rep2000 said:

And now one of them is burnt out and rather making Pfizer commercial than releasing music, while the other is making history with the biggest tour of her career.

Okay? Swifties boil everything down to numbers, but life is not so simple. If you guys could give examples of how TS is more ambitious than peak Gaga you would name them.

Edited September 6, 2023 by GraceRandolph

[taylamour]

I don't think anyone expected Taylor to be as big as Taylor was, let alone Gaga to do these peaks as well. 

 

Like there was a ceiling for popularity, and Taylor pushed pass that and by far. 

[Enrique523]

On 9/3/2023 at 7:35 PM, Redstreak said:

Madonna was controversial and managed to maintain great success. I just think Gaga moved in a musical direction that was just too out there for the GP + the injury

Right? This idea that Gaga declined because she was "too controversial" is pure nonsense since it was at her most controversial that she was the most successful. She declined because she made bad choices in her career, it's as simple as that.

 

Also, that magazine was really ahead of its time, they saw it coming:

 

[Solaria]

But honestly we didnt even expect Taylor to have the level of success she had as well. Even Swifties themselves in 2019 were admitting that allthough she was still very popular, she started to experience somewhat of a decline. Folklore + the rerecordings boosted her popularity MASSIVELY. It was unprecedented 

[Saint James]

well there's two different questions here:

 

A) did we judge her success incorrectly

B) did she do something to damage her trajectory.

 

i think A is the more interesting one. i did think she would be bigger, but that's what the world was telling me. Gaga was the first huge star like that to debut in my life since Britney and i didn't have the experience that i have now. when you look back there were a lot of obvious issues with her career and artistry that i think the current me would be able to spot.

[HEAVYONIT]

When the TF/TFM were out, definitely. She was unstoppable, but artistically she decided to focus on taking riskier music decisions instead of continuing to make commercial pop music. 

[peacok]

She was never that big to begin with

[smartalek22]

I genuinely think if Gaga put in the work after 'Chromatica', by now she could have returned to reach new career peaks.

It's just been so slow, and I know she has been doing things like the Jazz album and tour, but the focus hasn't really been on her career as a mainstream pop star. She lacks consistency. Taylor hasn't really a series of monstrous hits in a long time (excuse the pun) with her biggest song being Anti-Hero, and a lot of singles that didn't catch on - until Cruel Summer I guess.

 

There's just much less drive from her now which she once had. The Fame era seemed like such a fun time to be a fan of her because she seemed to be truly in a flow with her career, but fast-forward to 2023, not so much. She has no focus and no idea what she's doing with herself anymore. I do wonder how an Artpop Act II would have fared, more music please!!!

[alestevens]

On 9/4/2023 at 6:53 PM, GraceRandolph said:

Is Taylor really more ambitious than Gaga though? I’d say Taylor has never been more ambitious than early Gaga. Gaga performed in an IKEA parking lot, collabed with Polaroid, planned a joint tour with Kanye, launched a social media site, campaigned against DADT, wrote a song for Cher, feuded with Madonna, and released a politically charged album before her career was even five years old. 

Taylor worked just as hard in her beginnings as Gaga did. The difference is that she never stopped

[GraceRandolph]

29 minutes ago, alestevens said:

Taylor worked just as hard in her beginnings as Gaga did. The difference is that she never stopped

But the reason she “never stopped” is that she never hit a low like ARTPOP. If every Gaga era was as huge as TFM I’m sure Gaga would have the luxury of never stopping. 

[EmailMySwift]

8 minutes ago, GraceRandolph said:

But the reason she “never stopped” is that she never hit a low like ARTPOP. If every Gaga era was as huge as TFM I’m sure Gaga would have the luxury of never stopping. 

And that's Taylor's fault because? Sorry that Gaga can't put out well-managed eras with good music anymore. 

 

No one asked her to scream "my koontz artpop illusion uranus my ass is famous" and record videos shot on refurbished iPhones, then be forced to call the era quits after 1 single because the lead flopped. 

Edited September 9, 2023 by EmailMySwift

[GraceRandolph]

1 minute ago, EmailMySwift said:

And that's Taylor's fault because? Sorry that Gaga can't put out well-managed eras with good music anymore. 

You Swifties need to look up just world fallacy, because the idea that only Taylor deserves success is just ridiculous. She got lucky.

[GraceRandolph]

3 minutes ago, EmailMySwift said:

And that's Taylor's fault because? Sorry that Gaga can't put out well-managed eras with good music anymore. 

 

No one asked her to scream "my koontz artpop illusion uranus my ass is famous" and record videos shot on refurbished iPhones, then be forced to call the era quits after 1 single because the lead flopped. 

@lostcause put it best:

 

She was lucky to debut in the mid aughts, if you were in middle school at the time, her career makes sense. 

American youth culture in 2006-2010 

would be unrecognizable to kids and teenagers today.  A twelve year old white girl in 2007 had more in common with her 1980s counterpart, fitting in was in.

 

In 2023, young people measure social capital by what makes them unique. They celebrate their differences, and publicize what makes them special. 

In 2006, the opposite was true, peculiarity was ostracized while “normal” was idolized.

 

Taylor swift was a straight, blonde, all American, southern twanged prom queen idol who girls could still imagine being nice to them in the hall. Her weak voice was mimicked with ease. Visually, she was the popular girl to rule every small town, while her songs and interviews evoked the average unremarkable awkward wallflower every tween girl relates to.

 

Small town southern Americana was the fetish of the day. In 2005, a curly headed blonde by the name of Carrie Underwood had already popularized country pop with approachable hit songs about small town heartbreak and scorned young love. Swifts sound and image of was packaged nearly identically.

It was an era when women were celebrated for acting much younger than they were, Paris Hilton and her baby voice may just have been the most famous figure on earth in 2006. Paris also bolstered the popularity of “small town white trash americana”, an aesthetic trend whose irony was lost on Taylor’s young demographic. At 17, Swift released an album of songs written with the immaturity of an 11 year old. These songs struck gold with that pre-teen demographic, and the culture at large accepted her infantilized presence as par for the milieu. 

The video for her first single was pure inoffensive conservative southern kitsch, it could have been filmed in the same town as The Simple Life season 1. 

Her thick southern twang even resonated with the coastal city kids of the era who wished to emulate the “normal” simplicity of middle class flyover USA. She is undeniably a product of George Bushes America. And just like that president, her accent was completely contrived. 

 

Taylor Swift cannot sing, cannot dance, cannot act, and cannot progress beyond the 11th grade musically.  She allows a rabid fanbase she has furiously cultivated for almost 20 years to feel ok about their own arrested development. They are ok because their idol hasn’t progressed far beyond middle school either. 

She made conservative whites feel seen and represented in a world they perceive as increasingly hostile to their supremacy. Her success, despite a complete lack of talent and rampant mediocrity, allows for unremarkable and below average whites to feel justified in their own unwarranted privileges and comforts.

In turn, they reward her for rationalizing their own unearned positions. 

The snake who eats her own tail, Taylor is the tail, her most pugnacious fans are the head. 

She surpassed Carrie Underwood because Taylor can’t really sing or perform.

 

The entire phenomenon is truly a product of right image for the right time. And now that she’s established, she’s lucky enough to resonate with the most reliable demographic. There will always be mediocre people who want their unexceptional blandness justified. 

[lonnie]

She was certainly expected to sustain that level of attention and success for a while. The truth is Taylor kept growing her fanbase and catering to it and never really going beyond the limits of what they could consume. While Gaga never cared to estrange her fanbase and went as far as doing jazz and country which is a distance away from her dancepop debut and so their career paths aren't really comparable. 

[EmailMySwift]

4 minutes ago, GraceRandolph said:

You Swifties need to look up just world fallacy, because the idea that only Taylor deserves success is just ridiculous. She got lucky.

There's no such thing as 17 years of straight luck. The Fame/Monster is the perfect example of luck. 

[GraceRandolph]

1 minute ago, EmailMySwift said:

There's no such thing as 17 years of straight luck. The Fame/Monster is the perfect example of luck. 

Yep, I feel lucky that for even a moment the GP celebrated talent instead of the usual mediocrity that is the norm nowadays. 

[EmailMySwift]

2 minutes ago, GraceRandolph said:

Yep, I feel lucky that for even a moment the GP celebrated talent instead of the usual mediocrity that is the norm nowadays. 

Chromatica is the definition of mediocrity. 

I'm not going to argue with you anymore in a thread made a Britney stan for the purpose of having more fanbases gang up on Taylor while also getting Gaga dragged. 

[Leptine]

On 9/6/2023 at 10:34 AM, Rep2000 said:

And now one of them is burnt out and rather making Pfizer commercial than releasing music, while the other is making history with the biggest tour of her career.

Please, as if the Pfizer commercial is the only thing she did in the last year when she has filmed for 4 months one of the most highly anticipated sequel of a Billion dollar gross movie, performed at the Oscar and getting her fourth nomination which not everybody has that to her credit, not to mention last year she managed to tour as well despite her well known health issues with doing the biggest numbers of her career when this site was claiming her tour was a scam that would have flopped.

[shyboi]

Just now, EmailMySwift said:

a thread made a Britney stan for the purpose of having more fanbases gang up on Taylor while also getting Gaga dragged. 

 

why you keep mentioning this? so we can't have discussions here anymore? And that was not my purpose. Not my problem some of you don't have the maturity to simply reply and avoid getting dragged in silly fights. 

[shyboi]

13 minutes ago, lonnie said:

She was certainly expected to sustain that level of attention and success for a while. The truth is Taylor kept growing her fanbase and catering to it and never really going beyond the limits of what they could consume. While Gaga never cared to estrange her fanbase and went as far as doing jazz and country which is a distance away from her dancepop debut and so their career paths aren't really comparable. 

 

Gaga never did country please.

[Badgalbriel]

19 minutes ago, GraceRandolph said:

You Swifties need to look up just world fallacy, because the idea that only Taylor deserves success is just ridiculous. She got lucky.

I don't think that's what the user implied. But it's a fact that Gaga did give up because she's surrounded with dumb people and can't properly lunch an era

[WEEKND]

Taylor has 3 AOTY

is the undisputed queen of touring 

has occupied the entire top 10 of the hot 100 in one week 

has debuted with over 1M 5 times

 

those are bigger achievements than anything Gaga has ever accomplished 

 

I mean this is not an opinion it’s a FACT 

[GraceRandolph]

9 minutes ago, Badgalbriel said:

I don't think that's what the user implied. But it's a fact that Gaga did give up because she's surrounded with dumb people and can't properly lunch an era

People always blame Gaga for all her failures and give Taylor ALL the credit for her success. There are other factors at play that Swifties don’t want to acknowledge which makes these convos pointless. 

[lonnie]

15 minutes ago, shyboi said:

 

Gaga never did country please.

What was Joanne? I thought that had country/folk influences?