Pop Art Posted August 7, 2023 Share Posted August 7, 2023 These are the times I'm grateful I've been vegan for over 12 years. What non-human animals unnecessarily go through because of us is just...some of the worst things humans have ever done. To say it's truly sick is beyond an understatement. I also can't help but laugh when people say humans need meat to survive as if they're not arguing that very point with vegans who are clearly alive without it. Like...what's not clicking? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Specter Posted August 7, 2023 Share Posted August 7, 2023 I am not clicking on that video, the description was more than enough Beyond horrific, and anyone defending this has lost the plot. I only briefly worked as a part of a team in one of the biggest Animal Rights organization in my country, and to say the state of animal farming is...abysmal would be an understatement of severe proportions. I really just need a way to be able to eliminate the animal products I consume (mainly chicken and eggs, and whey protein - I believe mine isn't vegan) for the gym/fitness. I don't do pork and beef, and I do seafood very, very sparingly). I live in a developing country though and the vegan equivalents to the above are not something I can afford at the same scale. Simply substituting eggs for tofu increases my expenses a lot...I champion lab-grown meat, but realistically I do not see it coming to my country anytime soon, and it is not even a thing in the West, yet. This does not absolve me of any personal responsibility but I do wish there was a resource thread to transition into veganism. I believe @Armani? used to have one? I have actually been vegetarian for some pockets of my life, and there the obstacle was to get around (my love and personal preference for) dairy products. But the way they're obtained from milk-producing animals I am happy to see only one corny "mm bacon" """joke""" in this thread thus far, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaredtbh Posted August 7, 2023 Share Posted August 7, 2023 Pigs are so precious and must be protected at all costs. Thank god I stopped consuming pork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sciencemagic Posted August 7, 2023 Share Posted August 7, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Phantom said: I am not clicking on that video, the description was more than enough Beyond horrific, and anyone defending this has lost the plot. I only briefly worked as a part of a team in one of the biggest Animal Rights organization in my country, and to say the state of animal farming is...abysmal would be an understatement of severe proportions. I really just need a way to be able to eliminate the animal products I consume (mainly chicken and eggs, and whey protein - I believe mine isn't vegan) for the gym/fitness. I don't do pork and beef, and I do seafood very, very sparingly). I live in a developing country though and the vegan equivalents to the above are not something I can afford at the same scale. Simply substituting eggs for tofu increases my expenses a lot...I champion lab-grown meat, but realistically I do not see it coming to my country anytime soon, and it is not even a thing in the West, yet. This does not absolve me of any personal responsibility but I do wish there was a resource thread to transition into veganism. I believe @Armani? used to have one? I have actually been vegetarian for some pockets of my life, and there the obstacle was to get around (my love and personal preference for) dairy products. But the way they're obtained from milk-producing animals I am happy to see only one corny "mm bacon" """joke""" in this thread thus far, though. I'm sort of in the same boat here -- I'm fully vegetarian but rely a lot on milk, eggs, yogurt, and whey protein for my protein intake. I really would like to be totally vegan but eggs (and I buy the pasture-raised eggs, though after watching that video, it sounds like they're still treated so badly...) are such a staple in my diet and really my only consistent source of protein so it's hard to let that go. I've tried the "Just Egg" (vegan egg mixture made from mung beans + turmeric) product recently and it isn't bad (it actually has the same calories and protein per serving as a regular egg), but it's not *quite* the same taste -- I'd recommend trying it if it's available near you! The alternative milks are also hard to get used to, because I absolutely LOVE the taste of milk. I wish it was easier to transition :/ because tofu and all that just doesn't give you the same amount of protein per serving and I already feel like I'm not as strong as I'd like to be because I don't eat meat Edited August 7, 2023 by sciencemagic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playboi Posted August 7, 2023 Share Posted August 7, 2023 These animals will eat anything I bet they don't even care Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FOCK Posted August 7, 2023 Author Share Posted August 7, 2023 (edited) “Garbage feeding” is also a disgusting practice, legal in 27 American states. Edited August 7, 2023 by FOCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fountain Posted August 7, 2023 Share Posted August 7, 2023 Disgusting. These people are psychotic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2NE1 Posted August 7, 2023 Share Posted August 7, 2023 13 hours ago, FOCK said: Eating fish is just as cruel, they are sentient creatures & suffer horrifically, often gutted alive, crushed to death during fishing, or exasperated to death from an inability to breath. Cutting the stork of a broccoli is not comparable to slitting the throat of an animal after having endured a lifetime of suffering. Vegans aren’t dying - they’re outliving meat eaters and with less health complications. Imagine having every educational resource at your fingertips and not being able to figure out how to adequately sustain yourself without meat. It’s not even a “sacrifice”, once you’re actually clued into all that goes into meat production, and it’s ramifications on your health, the environment & innocent beings. It’s a simple ethical & moral aligning choice, not a dietary one. And I rest easy knowing my food doesn’t include traces of anus. 13 hours ago, Kylizzle said: Where's the cruelty involved in eating vegetables The way y’all can’t read. Violence against animals more like the unsanitary conditions across the food industry harming everyone especially low income households but go off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armani? Posted August 7, 2023 Share Posted August 7, 2023 18 hours ago, MusicandSoul said: I think there nothing wrong with eating meat, our bodies are built for consuming and digesting - the body alone cannot jst live from a plant based diet. But the way we eat meat, and the industry needs a complete overhaul. Its a disgusting industry Humans DO NOT require meat & people who eat most the plant based diets have better health outcomes than ppl who eat meat, even in blue zones(longest living populated areas like the Adventists) Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27886704/ "It is the position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics that appropriately planned vegetarian, including vegan, diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits for the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. These diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, adolescence, older adulthood, and for athletes. Plant-based diets are more environmentally sustainable than diets rich in animal products because they use fewer natural resources and are associated with much less environmental damage. Vegetarians and vegans are at reduced risk of certain health conditions, including ischemic heart disease, type 2 diabetes, hypertension, certain types of cancer, and obesity. Low intake of saturated fat and high intakes of vegetables, fruits, whole grains, legumes, soy products, nuts, and seeds (all rich in fiber and phytochemicals) are characteristics of vegetarian and vegan diets that produce lower total and low-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels and better serum glucose control." Meta Analysis for Total Cancer Risk https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10408398.2016.1138447?journalCode=bfsn20 Vegan diet conferred a significant reduced risk (−15%) of incidence from total cancer. Adventist Vegans vs Adventist Omnivores (BMI, Diabetes, & Hypertension) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2671114/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4073139/ The study population comprised 22,434 men and 38,469 women who participated in the Adventist Health Study-2 conducted in 2002–2006. Mean BMI was lowest in vegans (23.6 kg/m2) and incrementally higher in lacto-ovo vegetarians (25.7 kg/m2), pesco-vegetarians (26.3 kg/m2), semi-vegetarians (27.3 kg/m2), and nonvegetarians (28.8 kg/m2). Prevalence of type 2 diabetes increased from 2.9% in vegans to 7.6% in nonvegetarians; the prevalence was intermediate in participants consuming lacto-ovo (3.2%), pesco (4.8%), or semi-vegetarian (6.1%) diets. After adjustment for age, sex, ethnicity, education, income, physical activity, television watching, sleep habits, alcohol use, and BMI, vegans (OR 0.51 [95% CI 0.40–0.66]), lacto-ovo vegetarians (0.54 [0.49–0.60]), pesco-vegetarians (0.70 [0.61–0.80]), and semi-vegetarians (0.76 [0.65–0.90]) had a lower risk of type 2 diabetes than nonvegetarians. For hypertension, lacto-ovo-vegetarians experienced 55% lower risks; whereas, vegans had 75% risks reduction when compared to non-vegetarians. The risks reduction of diabetes for lacto-ovo-vegetarians varied between 38% and 61%; and 47% to 78% for vegans. For all cardiometabolic-related outcomes, vegans had lower risk than lacto-ovo-vegetarians compared to non-vegetarians. Normal Vitamin B12 Status for Modern Vegans https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6566694/ About 80% of each group showed vitamin B12 adequacy with higher levels in supplement users. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11130-018-0677-y Healthy adults were recruited (n = 103, 52% vegans). Dietary preferences and use of supplements were assessed by questionnaires and serum samples were collected and stored. Vitamin B12 was measured by chemiluminiscence and MMA by liquid chromatography tandem mass spectrometry (LC-MS/MS) using solid phase extraction for sample preparation. Obtained values, median (IQR), were: vitamin B12, 278.9 (160.2) pmol/l and MMA, 140.2 (78.9) nmol/l. No significant differences between lacto-ovo vegetarians and vegans were observed. Considering these two markers, 10% of the participants were mild vitamin B12 deficient. Supplementation (75% of the participants) was associated with higher vitamin B12 (p < 0.001) and lower MMA (p = 0.012). In conclusion, Spanish vegetarians have low risk of vitamin B12 deficiency due to vitamin B12 supplementation and the MMA determination is useful to detect mild deficiency. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26502280/ Despite negligible dietary vitamin B12 intake in the vegan group, deficiency of this particular vitamin was low in all groups thanks to widespread use of supplements. Omnivores had the lowest intake of Mg, vitamin C, vitamin E, niacin and folic acid. Vegans reported low intakes of Ca and a marginal consumption of the vitamins D and B12. The highest prevalence for vitamin and mineral deficiencies in each group was as follows: in the omnivorous group, for folic acid (58 %); in the vegetarian group, for vitamin B6 and niacin (58 and 34 %, respectively); and in the vegan group, for Zn (47 %). Cholesterol https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17364116/ 76 Partipants https://veganhealth.org/chronic-disease-and-vegetarian-diets/cardiovascular-disease-markers-in-vegans/#cholesterol-usa Between 1980 and 2002, cholesterol levels of vegans living in Western countries was measured in 17 studies. The average cholesterol level of vegans was 160 compared to 202 mg/dl for non-vegetarians. Table 2 shows the results. TABLE 2. CHOLESTEROL IN WESTERN VEGANS (1980-2002) Vegan Lacto-Ovo Pesco Non-Veg Cholesterol (mg/dl) 160.0 (749)a 185.3 (2,135)a 196.2 (467)a 201.5 (1,857)a LDL (mg/dl) 90.3 (398)a 106.0 (1,859)a 113.7 (467)a 120.9 (1,516)a HDL (mg/dl) 51.9 (472)a 56.7 (1,898)a 61.0 (467)a 55.0 (1,587)a Cholesterol : HDL 3.1 3.3 3.2 3.7 aNumber of people measured Sources: Allen, 2000; Bissoli, 2002; Fisher, 1986; Fokkema, 2000; Haddad, 1999; Krajcovicová-Kudlácková, 2000; Kritchevsky, 1984; Li, 1999; Lock, 1982; Roshanai, 1984; Sanders, 1978; Sanders, 1987; Sanders, 1992; Thomas, 1996; Thorogood, 1987; Thorogood, 1990; Toohey, 1998; Higher LDL Cholesterol is CAUSAL to heart disease/atherosclerosis https://pace-cme.org/2019/04/01/elevated-ldl-c-is-causal-of-atherosclerosis/ https://www.escardio.org/Journals/E-Journal-of-Cardiology-Practice/Volume-18/what-is-the-role-of-lipids-in-atherosclerosis-and-how-low-should-we-decrease-lip https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18173952/ Vitamin D is not a Vegan Issue https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12889-021-11888-1 Our study, based on our selection criteria was narrowed down to a total of 44,717 participants; which spanned over 65 studies from five South Asian countries. Overall, the pooled prevalence of deficiency was 68% [95% CI: 64 to 72%] with significant heterogeneity (I2 = 98%; p = 0.00). https://www.cooperinstitute.org/blog/african-americans-at-greatest-risk-of-vitamin-d-deficiency An estimated 40% of American adults may be vitamin D deficient. For African-Americans, that number may be nearly double at 76% according to a new study by The Cooper Institute. There's a natural vegan source of Vitamin B12(Water Lentils/Duckweed) so if you want to play the "natural is always better" logical fallacy card you can get it through this food. https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/parabel-announces-natural-plant-source-of-vitamin-b12-in-water-lentils-and-lentein-plant-protein-1028697181 Independent third-party laboratory testing has confirmed that Parabel's water lentil crop and the ingredient LENTEIN® plant protein contain the natural bioactive forms of Vitamin B 12 adenosylcobalamin, methycobalamin, and hydroxocobalamin. The water lentil, or duckweed as it is commonly called, was shown to contain approximately 750 % of the US recommended daily value of the bioactive forms of Vitamin B12 (per 100 grams of dry plant). https://www.clinicalnutritionjournal.com/article/S0261-5614(18)32577-9/fulltext https://www.researchgate.net/publication/329559531_Protein_bioavailability_of_Wolffia_globosa_duckweed_a_novel_aquatic_plant_-_A_randomized_controlled_trial Wolffia globosa is an aquatic, edible duckweed The 3 h blood concentrations of the EAAs: histidine, phenylalanine, threonine, lysine, and tryptophan, triggered by intake of Mankai, was essentially significant as compared to baseline (p < 0.05) and similar to that of soft cheese and pea changes (p > 0.05 between groups). Although branched-chain-amino-acids (leucine/isoleucine, valine) increased significantly by Mankai within 3 h (p < 0.05 vs. baseline), the change was relatively higher for cheese as compared to Mankai or peas (p < 0.05 between groups). The increase in vitamin B12 by Mankai was higher as compared to changes induced by either cheese (p=0.007) or peas (p=0.047, between groups). Mankai may provide a high-quality substitute source for animal protein, and a potential bioavailable source of vitamin B12. The Adventists population has a significantly higher life expectancy than the rest of the US. Vegans still do better than them on average in their own studies https://adventisthealthstudy.org/studies/AHS-1/findings-longevity Findings estimated that men in AHS-1 lived 7.3 years longer and AHS-1 women 4.4 years longer, on average than their California counterparts. Other Common Myths for trying to get other vitamins/minerals https://academic.oup.com/biohorizons/article/3/2/197/187746?login=false Westerns eat extremely more protein than they need, so vegans eating less protein isn't a issue Unless you're body building, the excess protein will just be peed out https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/28/well/eat/how-much-protein-do-we-need.html#:~:text=Most American adults eat about,roughly twice the recommended amount. The recommended intake for a healthy adult is 46 grams of protein a day for women and 56 grams for men. And while protein malnutrition is a problem for millions of people around the globe, for the average adult in developed countries, we are eating far more protein than we actually need. Most American adults eat about 100 grams of protein per day, or roughly twice the recommended amount. Even on a vegan diet people can easily get 60 to 80 grams of protein throughout the day from foods like beans, legumes, nuts, broccoli and whole grains. Omega-3 There is no official daily recommended amount of DHA, but just for fun we'll just compare 100 grams of various popular fish eaten to a serving of ground flaxseed Catfish - 200 mg Omega 3 Tuna - 1300 mg Omega 3 Salmon - 2600 mg Omega 3 Tilapia - 200 mg Omega 3 Cod - 100 mg Omega 3 1 Serving of Ground Flaxseed (28 OZ) Omega 3 ALA - 6500 mg The average conversion rate from ALA to DHA is around 3.8% although this varies & can be higher, but we'll be using this number https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9637947/ A 9% conversion rate for women also reported https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/british-journal-of-nutrition/article/div-classtitleconversion-of-linolenic-acid-to-eicosapentaenoic-docosapentaenoic-and-docosahexaenoic-acids-in-young-womendiv/2B640958BD4A0061593384DF076DBC74 3.8% of 6500 =250mg DHA 9% of 6500 = 600mg DHA Or you can just buy a algae DHA supplement, fish don't make it, they consume it via algae. Vitamin C increases Iron absorption https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146/annurev.nu.01.070181.001011 Garlic & Onions increase Iron & Zinc absorption https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20597543/ Plant Protein vs Animal Protein for muscle, Meta Analysis https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33670701/ Results from the meta-analyses demonstrated that protein source did not affect changes in absolute lean mass or muscle strength. However, there was a favoring effect of animal protein on percent lean mass. Non Dairy Calcium Sources 1 Cup of Store Bought Soy Milk - 30% American Daily Value 1/2 Block of Tofu(175 Calories) - 45% American Daily Value Sesame Seeds, unhulled (1 OZ) - 28% American Daily Value 1 Cup of Cooked Collard Greens 27% American Daily Value Vegans should probably be better at consuming zinc, but again. Not compelling. You'd rather eat meat and increase your risk of diabetes, heart disease, hypertension, cancer, and obesity because of the risk of a couple nutrient deficiencies K Thanks for coming to this clocking session from bookmarks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leppie Posted August 7, 2023 Share Posted August 7, 2023 16 hours ago, Phantom said: I am happy to see only one corny "mm bacon" """joke""" in this thread thus far, though. It's telling that the typical bacon jokes aren't here, because even the people who do these jokes can see how horrific this is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Posted August 7, 2023 Share Posted August 7, 2023 I had to stop reading that post bc the images in my head were getting too much, nevermind watching the videos how did we end up this evil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyanide Posted August 8, 2023 Share Posted August 8, 2023 Omg this is why I can’t eat pork, HEINOUS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LikeaRebel Posted August 10, 2023 Share Posted August 10, 2023 Pigs are adorable and the way they’re treated is horrific. No way I’m watching those videos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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