celeb news noah schnapp deletes Palestinian comments from his Israel posts

[nostalgic]

Some people blur the line between criticism and anti-semitism when they criticize Israel. Zionism is about much more than Israel - it's a belief of the right for the Jewish people to have a homeland or a place to escape from persecution. Zionism was a response to centuries of anti-semitic pogroms and dehuminazation from the areas these people lived. You can see why people automatically turn off their ears when you use the word "zionist" as an insult. There are rabid pro-Israel zionists and there are zionists that don't support Israel. This gets lost in the conversation.

[Jjang]

3 minutes ago, Brunette Ambition said:

 

this marvelization of war.

you sure about that? 

 

 

[Embustera]

I know plenty Jewish people who don’t support Zionism. He just showed his true colors. 

[Talento]

We stand with Noah 

[besaid]

3 minutes ago, nostalgic said:

Some people blur the line between criticism and anti-semitism when they criticize Israel. Zionism is about much more than Israel - it's a belief of the right for the Jewish people to have a homeland or a place to escape from persecution. Zionism was a response to centuries of anti-semitic pogroms and dehuminazation from the areas these people lived. You can see why people automatically turn off their ears when you use the word "zionist" as an insult. There are rabid pro-Israel zionists and there are zionists that don't support Israel. This gets lost in the conversation.

That's exactly the point this article is making (which is being dismissed here based on the jewish org its from not on the content inside, no surprise )

 

https://www.adl.org/resources/blog/anti-zionism-antisemitism-how-anti-zionist-language-left-and-right-vilifies-jews

 

Like, using the term "Zionist" when referring to a Jewish person and suggesting they are specially corrupt, uniquely racist or in some kind of secret "cabal" that controls media. You can kind of see that even here when Noah Schnapp uploads an instagram post and its suggested he's a Nazi and bloodthirstily supports "genocide" or whatever despite no evidence of any such thing. Defamations like this are very common and central to antisemitism throughout history.

[Brunette Ambition]

5 minutes ago, Jjang said:

you sure about that? 

 

 

That literally got nothing to do with my post. 
im not surprised Marvel would have a hero like this though. They are also heavily sponsored by the US force. 

[Jjang]

24 minutes ago, nostalgic said:

Some people blur the line between criticism and anti-semitism when they criticize Israel. Zionism is about much more than Israel - it's a belief of the right for the Jewish people to have a homeland or a place to escape from persecution. Zionism was a response to centuries of anti-semitic pogroms and dehuminazation from the areas these people lived. You can see why people automatically turn off their ears when you use the word "zionist" as an insult. There are rabid pro-Israel zionists and there are zionists that don't support Israel. This gets lost in the conversation.

I think it's pretty clear by now that people are referring to Zionism as the political movement that practically emerged in 1897 Europe by Theodor Hertzl, which, no matter how you attempt to "theoretically" explain - the material reality and manifestation of it remains a fascist ideology that resulted in a fascist outcome. like I'm pretty sure the ancient Hebrews were not dreaming of militarized state values. 

 

And you know what's ironic? I don't even think that Zionism is the ultimate protection its defenders make it seem to be. Like, I'm pretty damn sure the millions of Jewish Americans are living in better conditions than Israeli Jews who are drafted to war and criminal illegal operations (which not only puts their lives at imminent risk but many of them suffer from PTSD because of it btw) or illegally being put in Palestinian towns to reside as if that's not gonna create conflict for them. 

 

nor do I think this looks peaceful and serene: 

 

 

 

Edited July 22, 2023 by Jjang

[Communion]

39 minutes ago, nostalgic said:

Zionism was a response to 

This is nonsensical because countless nationalist movements are responses to other things. 

 

You just have to look at something like Chinese nationalism - it, like Zionism, a fairly new phenomenon - in response to being brutalized and experiencing unspeakable atrocities at the hands of the Japanese.

 

But then does that collective suffering of the Han people - real, tangible suffering - in reaction to Japan's atrocities justify actions done to other groups like those within the South Asia Sea?

 

This is why particularly US foreign policy is so incoherent and hypocritical because America fashions itself as a protector of disenfranchised people against occupying forces (which is in itself a dishonest reality) and yet it due to its own religious fanaticism (believing Israel only serves a purpose to make the Rapture occur and allow all of Jesus' followers in America to float up to heaven ) continually defends the continued subjugation of the Palestinian people.

 

You don't have to even leave Europe to see the hypocrisy. Dua Lipa reveals she believes in Greater Albania and thinks parts of other countries will one day revert back to being Albanian because there is some land her people are inherently entitled to and is rightfully condemned as being a nationalist, yet how is the idea of Israel - an ethno-state carved into existence based on Zionist ideology that Jewish people are entitled to a homeland - any different? 

 

If you want to make the argument that Jewish suffering has been unique - one I think most people would agree with - and thus will now try to convince everyone there may need to be an exception with Jewish ethno-nationalism being warranted, be upfront and have enough confidence in your ideas to say that outright. Don't pretend to not understand the conflict at hand. 

Edited July 22, 2023 by Communion

[besaid]

6 minutes ago, Jjang said:

I think it's pretty clear by now that people are referring to Zionism as the political movement that practically emerged in 1897 Europe by Theodor Hertzl, which, no matter how you attempt to "theoretically" explain - the material reality and manifestation of it remains a fascist ideology that resulted in a fascist outcome. like I'm pretty sure the ancient Hebrews were not dreaming of militarized state values. 

 

And you know what's ironic? I don't even think that Zionism is the ultimate protection its defenders make it seem to be. Like, I'm pretty damn sure the millions of Jewish Americans are living in better conditions than Israeli Jews who are drafted to war and criminal illegal operations (which not only puts their lives at imminent risk but many of them suffer from PTSD because of it btw) or illegally being put in Palestinian towns to reside as if that's not gonna create conflict for them. 

 

nor do I think this looks peaceful and serene: 

 

 

 

Textbook antisemitism here but go on thinking that you're doing something.

 

"

The underlying (if not explicit) suggestion by promoters of this conspiracy theory is that “Zionists,” just like the Nazis, bear responsibility for the murder of six million Jews in the Holocaust. Conspiracy theorists, some radical anti-Zionist activists, antisemites and right-wing extremists make various claims to “prove” that Zionism and Nazism were, and still are, ideologically congruent and natural allies. Many point to the Haavara Agreement, which was an anguished attempt by Zionist leaders in the 1930s to save German Jews by reaching an agreement with the Third Reich that allowed Jews to keep some of their property as they were transferred from Germany to Mandatory Palestine.

 

Others refer to Lenni Brenner’s 1983 book Zionism in the Age of Dictators, which argues along the same lines.

Some also might point to Lehi's (far-right pre-State of Israel paramilitary Zionist group) desperate outreach to Nazis or the Kastner-Eichmann negotiations (which were intensely controversial in Israel and led to Kastner’s assassination). Soviet state propaganda, which continues to exert influence, claims there is an affinity between Zionists and Nazis.

 

The idea that Zionists collaborated with or are ideologically connected to Nazis has several variants. Referenced above, some people (usually right-wing extremists), claim that “Zionists” helped Nazis exterminate European Jewry because they thought it would help establish the state of Israel. A segment of left-wing anti-Zionists, on the other hand, weaponize the Haavara Agreement to make sweeping declarations about persistent communication and ideological cohesion between the Nazis and the Zionist movement throughout World War II. Other anti-Zionists simply allege a parallel between Zionists and Nazis without reference to historical developments, but mostly to express their disgust with Israel."

 

 

[Communion]

Just now, besaid said:

Textbook antisemitism here

Why did the ADL spy on Desmond Tutu for being against South African apartheid? 

[besaid]

3 minutes ago, Communion said:

Why did the ADL spy on Desmond Tutu for being against South African apartheid? 

The answer doesn't make a difference to the content I've posted. Please answer where Noah Schnapp's "Nazi behavior" is, in detail. 

[Sergi91]

How is he deleting Palestinian comments when they are there? 

[Communion]

22 minutes ago, besaid said:

The answer doesn't make a difference to the content I've posted

How not?

 

Zionism gets crudely compared to Nazism due to people wanting to highlight that both equate to ethno-nationalist movements at the end of the day, with both suggesting there is a specific ethnic group inherently superior to others.

 

Now, "it's insensitive to compare an ethno-nationalist movement that happens to be about Jewish people to a ethno-nationalist movement that uniquely hurt Jewish people" would be a very compelling argument! I can see why such comparisons are a bit crude or hurtful and wouldn't evoke Nazi Germany when discussing Israel myself. But this argument for sensitivity becomes less compelling when Zionist organizations go on to even reject comparisons that have nothing to do with Jewish suffering, like recognizing the parellels between the ethno-nationalism of Israel and that of apartheid-era South Africa.

 

In fact, historical record reminds us that European Jewish South Africans not only were complicit in apartheid but benefitted from apartheid. Most of South Africa's Jewish population even left the country after apartheid ended for other settler-state nations like Australia. So no, it would be perfectly reasonable to draw comparisons between Israel and apartheid South Africa as ethno-states and it not be antisemitic. 

 

The suggestion that such comparisons are antisemitic is even more absurd when we recognize the reality that Israel government officials and Zionist organization were literally working to try and keep apartheid in South Africa in place, like with the ADL working to spy on people like Desmond Tutu. 

Edited July 22, 2023 by Communion

[besaid]

1 minute ago, Communion said:

How not?

 

Zionism gets crudely compared to Nazism due to people wanting to highlight that both equate to ethno-nationalist movements at the end of the day, with both suggesting there is a specific ethnic group inherently superior to others.

 

Now, "it's insensitive to compare an ethno-nationalist movement that happens to be about Jewish people to a ethno-nationalist movement that uniquely hurt Jewish people" would be a very compelling argument! I can see why such comparisons are a bit crude or hurtful an wouldn't do so myself. But this argument for sensitivity becomes less compelling when Zionist organizations go on to even reject comparisons that have nothing to do with Jewish suffering, like recognizing the parellels between the ethno-nationalism of Israel and that of apartheid-era South Africa.

 

In fact, historical record reminds us that European Jewish South Africans not only were complicit in apartheid but benefitted from apartheid. Most of South Africa's Jewish population even left the country after apartheid ended for other settler state nations like Australia. So no, it would be perfectly reasonable to draw comparisons between Israel and South Africa as ethno-states and it not be antisemitic. 

 

The suggestion that such comparisons are antisemitic is even more absurd when we recognize the reality that Israel government officials and Zionist organization were literally working to try and keep apartheid in place, like with the ADL working to spy on people like Desmond Tutu. 

Gowns beautiful gowns. That's all very interesting.

 

But this thread is about palestinian supporters calling Noah Schnapp's instagram post "Nazi behavior" and "support for genocide". I mean, I could pull from his replies but I don't think I can repeat a lot of what is in there here. So for the 3rd or 4th time, where is Noah Schnapp's Nazi behavior?

[Mean Trees]

28 minutes ago, Communion said:

Why did the ADL spy on Desmond Tutu for being against South African apartheid? 

OOP! Will you get an answer???

 

I'm happy these debates can happen outside the politics thread. I think they're much more philosophical.

[Communion]

6 minutes ago, besaid said:

calling Noah Schnapp's instagram post 

Yes, many people reasonably see rich Jewish-Americans visiting and partaking in the idea that they have innate "birthright" citizenship to Israel as contributing to the very system of ethno-nationalism being discussed.

 

What reaction would rich Dutch celebrities illicit by publicly sharing about their holidays to South Africa in the 1960s? Movements like BDS, despite being deemed antisemitic, are no different than the protest movements that happened within the Netherlands where Dutch youth or in Britain where English youth pushed for cultural boycotts of South Africa.

Edited July 22, 2023 by Communion

[besaid]

1 minute ago, Mean Trees said:

OOP! Will you get an answer???

 

I'm happy these debates can happen outside the politics thread. I think they're much more philosophical.

Oh yea you got me the ADL controls the world and helped make apartheid happen in South Africa. Great point, never thought of using a conspiracy to explain complicated world affairs before (or maybe, Israel is like every other country on earth and spies on other countries. America spied on South Africa too, not just the Jewish country).

[Mean Trees]

1 minute ago, besaid said:

Oh yea you got me the ADL controls the world and helped make apartheid happen in South Africa. Great point, never thought of using a conspiracy to explain complicated world affairs before (or maybe, Israel is like every other country on earth and spies on other countries. America spied on South Africa too, not just the Jewish country).

There is nothing complicated about a self-described zionist organization spying on an individual who fought against the anti-Black apartheid of South Africa. Maybe the ADL should have stayed out of it but I guess it couldn't because it ultimately showed where zionism is aligned to.

[Communion]

2 minutes ago, besaid said:

you got me the ADL controls the world 

Me: Zionism is an ethno-nationalist movement. The founders of Zionism said so themselves.

You: According to the ADL, it is antisemitic to refer to Zionism as a form of nationalism.

Me: The ADL is not a credible source on nationalism given they defended South African apartheid.

You: Hmmm so what you're saying is you think the ADL controls the world???

 

You can just say you're a far-right ethno-nationalist who wants to murder Palestinians. You don't have to evoke logical fallacies because you backed yourself into a corner by bringing up of a source that you thought had merit. 

[besaid]

5 minutes ago, Communion said:

Yes, many people reasonably see rich Jewish-Americans visiting and partaking in the idea that they have innate "birthright" citizenship to Israel as contributing to the very system of ethno-nationalism being discussed.

#1. (since you seem to be implying this) South African apartheid has nothing to do with Jewish people and was not caused by Jews, "Zionists" or Israel.

 

And right, your problem is the existence of a Jewish person, Noah Schnapp. All the rest of this are defamations you're attaching to him - "he's ethnonationalist or contributing to ethnonationalism", "nazi behavior reasonably assumed" etc. all on the basis of who he is and in spite of no evidence supporting such claims of his. Just him being Jewish and located in Israel is "reasonable" to assume he's a nazi ethnonationalist contributing to genocide. Transparent and vile.

[besaid]

6 minutes ago, Mean Trees said:

There is nothing complicated about a self-described zionist organization spying on an individual who fought against the anti-Black apartheid of South Africa. Maybe the ADL should have stayed out of it but I guess it couldn't because it ultimately showed where zionism is aligned to.

Ohh the ADL is apart of the "cabal", is that right? Yeah I didn't think of that, silly me. Lots of thinly veiled little comments here - you should say what you really want to say.

[Communion]

10 minutes ago, besaid said:

South African apartheid has nothing to do with Jewish people.

com·par·i·son

 

1. 1.

   a consideration or estimate of the similarities or dissimilarities between two things or people.

   "they drew a comparison between Gandhi's teaching and that of other teachers"

 

A comparison is when two different things are compared for sharing similar qualities to one another.

 

Example:

"The Israeli apartheid against Palestinians is frequently compared to the European-led apartheid against black South Africans because both nations utilized similar systems of racial hierarchies that oversaw the hoarding of resources, displacement of populations, and denial of human rights for the ethnic groups subjugated as second-class citizens."

Edited July 22, 2023 by Communion

[Communion]

9 minutes ago, besaid said:

Just him being located in Israel is "reasonable" to assume 

 

23 minutes ago, Communion said:

What reaction would rich Dutch celebrities illicit by publicly sharing about their holidays to South Africa in the 1960s?

.

[besaid]

10 minutes ago, Communion said:

com·par·i·son

 

But you've done more than that, haven't you?

 

6 minutes ago, Communion said:

What reaction would rich Dutch celebrities illicit by publicly sharing about their holidays to South Africa in the 1960s?

.

Right, because the Dutch face the same violent genocidal conspiracy theories that Jewish people always have and its exactly the same in both situations. I never thought of that before, thank you.

 

Conclusion: A Jew being Jewish in Israel is not enough evidence to prove he's a nazi or engaging in bloodlust, greedy behavior or support for genocide (and it's actually just antisemitic to conclude that or compare it with being Dutch). Thanks.

Edited July 22, 2023 by besaid

[Communion]

1 minute ago, besaid said:

But you've done more than that, haven't you?

Why do you believe it is fine for a nation to maintain artificial ethnic majorities but yet when challenged on it can't actually articulate and proudly stand by the ethno-nationalism you're creating fallacies to defend?

 

Israel is an apartheid state. It is a state built on the idea of artificial ethnic majorities. 

How can people believe this is okay to do if you won't yourself stand by this ethnic subjugation of Palestinians?