One Rude Boy Posted July 23, 2023 Posted July 23, 2023 The pinkwashing in here smells crazy... this thread would make a good case study on how the GP ignored and disparaged the Palestinian plight :( Not kicking out Palestinians from their homes or succumbing them to IDF-enforced checkpoints could be a start! 2
Jjang Posted July 23, 2023 Author Posted July 23, 2023 (edited) 13 hours ago, nostalgic said: I never said it makes it okay for them to displace anyone, I was just explaining why the Jewish diaspora feels a connection to the land of Israel (and Palestine). That doesn't necessarily make them right but why does anyone feel a connection to their ancestral lands? but the physical/material manifestation of it literally cannot exist without the displacing. The fantasy that some divine power brought you back to your 2,000 + year-old ancient kingdom does not erase real-life ramifications. Having a religious affiliation to the land is not the issue at hand, however, claiming your religious affiliation grants you the right to conquer and rule over the land and the people that already live there is the issue. The material manifestation of it is violent and immoral. Quotes like "land without a people to a people without a land" are violent. The Brits, who were colonizing Palestine themselves and had no right being there, advanced Zionist wishes and promised them the land through the 1917 Balfour declaration (just like they gave Kashmir away! See, it's not just Israel criticism) is violent. and that violence is promoted by political Zionist ideologies because it puts the blame on Palestinians, how many times have you heard liberal Zionists go "Well, they refused to get colonized and denied the UN partition plan" (which they had every single right to because just like every other single plan in history, it criminally disadvantages the Palestinians for a plethora of reasons that we can get into if you want). Israel's establishment was possible only through genocide and ethnic cleansing, and more importantly - the maintenance of Israel as a Zionist state relies on the implementation of apartheid rules that are physically enforced by an illegally occupying military power. In order for Israel to remain Zionist in its nature, it must deny the Nakba, it must deny the return of Palestinian refugees, and it must implement colonial and apartheid laws. so the mere existence of Israel literally comes at the expense of a whole other group of people's fundamental human rights. Not just at the expense of gay Palestinians, straight Palestinians, male Palestinians, female Palestinians, or nonbinary Palestinians - it comes at the expense of all Palestinian's human rights. The way you exclude yourself from the material reality is so fascinating. I have a question for you: How do you, in real-time, explain to an elderly Palestinian woman probably older than the state of Israel itself, who resides in a refugee camp 20 miles away from her original home, who is refused the right of return and her fundamental human rights - how do you explain to her that a Jewish person, let's say, from Brazil, who not even his grand grand grand grand grand grand grand parents set foot in that land get automatic citizenship and have more rights than that elderly Palestinian woman on the land she was exiled from? Do you just tell her "suck it up, granny, 3 thousand years ago there was an ancient kingdom here that we want to restore"? seriously I'm curious. Again - Hertzl, Ben Gurion, Jabotinsky, Max... all of them talked about Zionism as a colonial project that directly seeks to violently replace a population that already exists with a different population. The latter population being Jewish is not the issue at hand, the issue is the action itself that people like you probably view as a "necessary evil" as if Palestinian lives are just pawns to bypass. I mean, why believe me, an antisemite (because I stated Zionism wants to kick me out of my own home), when you can just take the word of Zionist militias soldiers that established the state of Israel... (this is the part where you tell me other people used this video to spread anti semitic propaganda or something) And before you reply with "I was only specifically talking about Noah" - he is hanging around internet personalities that are wildly anti - Palestinian and are Nakba deniers (imagine an actor was hanging around with a Holocaust denier out and proud) and he's chronically online which means he knows every single detail of what's happening. Edited July 23, 2023 by Jjang 1 4 2
Jjang Posted July 23, 2023 Author Posted July 23, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Communion said: "Why did the people who made up the 67% of the population and owned 90% of the land reject the notion of being given only 45% of the land?" If Ukraine has the right to reject Russia's "offer" to give them back only a portion of their land, why would Palestinians be in the wrong to reject Israel's proposal that they split 55/45 land that was largely Palestinian owned? What are the the meaningful differences, if any, between these two maps besides the reality that Israel would simply not exist if Palestine was given the same military aid Ukraine was? Liberal Zionists seriously think that the UN partition plan or the Balfour Declaration were fair and honest peace resolutions Liberal Zionists also wholeheartedly believe this mythical event of "David vs Goliath" (as in they were so few against the barbaric Arabs, and only acted in self-defense) only for Israel's own classified leaked documents to prove that one faction (the Hagganah, I think there was also the Palmach, Lehi, etc) had double the number of soldiers all Arab countries had on the ground and with far more advanced weapons and a clear orchestrated plan to ethnically cleanse Palestinian villages. Edited July 23, 2023 by Jjang 2 2
Jjang Posted July 23, 2023 Author Posted July 23, 2023 (edited) Anyway, right now happening: (by right now I mean literally right now, not metaphorically) - a Christian Palestinian church in Haifa is being subjected to theft at the hands of Orthodox Jews who believe there's an ancient tombstone that belongs to them underneath that church, hence claiming the church as their property. - The IDF shot and murdered an 18-year-old Palestinian in Nablus (a place where the IDF has no business being in) - The IDF shot and murdered 17 & 19-year-old Palestinians in the city of Ramallah (where the IDF has no business being in) - Israeli settlers uprooted over 150 olive trees (with the help of the IDF) in Hebron in order to disrupt Palestinian farmers' jobs. - the Palestinian family that was displaced in Jerusalem to be replaced with Jewish Americans are now arrested for resisting, while the illegal settlers get comfortable in the homes they stole. But... but... but you're echoing antisemitic tropes for pointing this out!!! Edited July 23, 2023 by Jjang 3 2 2
Daddy Posted July 23, 2023 Posted July 23, 2023 2 hours ago, Jjang said: Imagine hearing your grandfather laughing about the countless children he killed. Reminds me of our German history.
Vilko Posted July 23, 2023 Posted July 23, 2023 Well, it's his social media page, he can moderate it however he likes... 4
Jjang Posted July 23, 2023 Author Posted July 23, 2023 1 hour ago, Daddy said: Imagine hearing your grandfather laughing about the countless children he killed. Reminds me of our German history. how dare you draw parallels!!!!! 1
Badgalbriel Posted July 23, 2023 Posted July 23, 2023 what's the problem with israel? i'm not sure i understand. 2 5
SuperCiC1 Posted July 23, 2023 Posted July 23, 2023 I am not going to pretend to be well-versed in Israeli-Palestinian relations or history, I just think Israel is a far-right apartheid state illegally claiming a lot of Palestinian land that it simply does not have any right to, AND that extreme anti-Israel rhetoric has alt-right white supremacist echoes. Anti-Jewish hate crimes are on the rise and some of the rhetoric around this discussion and in this very thread is just not helping anything. 2
Jjang Posted July 23, 2023 Author Posted July 23, 2023 1 hour ago, Badgalbriel said: what's the problem with israel? i'm not sure i understand. do you really think you’re slick? every time there’s a thread about Israel you ask the same ignorant question when there are at least 5 members in the same thread actively and in detail explaining everything wrong with Israel. Try reading stuff beyond the children lyrics your fave writes. education is important. 2 1
besaid Posted July 23, 2023 Posted July 23, 2023 3 hours ago, Daddy said: Imagine hearing your grandfather laughing about the countless children he killed. Reminds me of our German history. Is this Noah's grandfather or just another off topic antisemitic accusation? Why is any of this relevant? 9
GraceRandolph Posted July 23, 2023 Posted July 23, 2023 I’m so disappointed in him. Hopefully he’s just young and misinformed. 1
kudmips7890 Posted July 23, 2023 Posted July 23, 2023 6 hours ago, Jjang said: but the physical/material manifestation of it literally cannot exist without the displacing. The fantasy that some divine power brought you back to your 2,000 + year-old ancient kingdom does not erase real-life ramifications. Having a religious affiliation to the land is not the issue at hand, however, claiming your religious affiliation grants you the right to conquer and rule over the land and the people that already live there is the issue. I'm not grasping how some people in this thread don't understand this??? 4 1
Popular Post Jjang Posted July 23, 2023 Author Popular Post Posted July 23, 2023 (edited) 6 hours ago, Jjang said: Anyway, right now happening: (by right now I mean literally right now, not metaphorically) - a Christian Palestinian church in Haifa is being subjected to theft at the hands of Orthodox Jews who believe there's an ancient tombstone that belongs to them underneath that church, hence claiming the church as their property. - The IDF shot and murdered an 18-year-old Palestinian in Nablus (a place where the IDF has no business being in) - The IDF shot and murdered 17 & 19-year-old Palestinians in the city of Ramallah (where the IDF has no business being in) - Israeli settlers uprooted over 150 olive trees (with the help of the IDF) in Hebron in order to disrupt Palestinian farmers' jobs. - the Palestinian family that was displaced in Jerusalem to be replaced with Jewish Americans are now arrested for resisting, while the illegal settlers get comfortable in the homes they stole. But... but... but you're echoing antisemitic tropes for pointing this out!!! i just want to point out that @besaidand @style17 disliked this comment just merely sharing the atrocities Israel has committed today because according to them even that is antisemitic and should not even be news. Disgusting. These are the people who are trying to hammer us with supposed moral values and shame us. We have provided every single context needed to make them understand exactly what our stance on the topic is and they still don’t want to hear any of it. They even refuse to acknowledge/sympathize with the fact that my family was displaced due to Zionism because acknowledging that would burst their bubble dream. Edited July 23, 2023 by Jjang 19 1
Jjang Posted July 23, 2023 Author Posted July 23, 2023 (edited) 41 minutes ago, kudmips7890 said: I'm not grasping how some people in this thread don't understand this??? not only do they pretend not to understand this, but they claim it’s antisemitism in the same vein of Nazi Germany. if that’s not brainwashing I sincerely don’t know what is. Edited July 23, 2023 by Jjang 1 2
State of Grace. Posted July 23, 2023 Posted July 23, 2023 50 minutes ago, Jjang said: i just want to point out that @besaidand @style17 disliked this comment just merely sharing the atrocities Israel has committed today because according to them even that is antisemitic and should even be news. Disgusting. These are the people who are trying to hammer us with supposed moral values and shame us. We have provided every single context needed to make them understand exactly what our stance on the topic is and they still don’t want to hear any of it. They even refuse to acknowledge/sympathize with the fact that my family was displaced due to Zionism because acknowledging that would burst their bubble dream. I assume all of those things you posted and the videos below were made up to spread antisemitic propaganda? They hate it when you point out and show the world the atrocities that the IOF and zionists have been able to commit w/o suffering much political backlash or getting truthful, honest, and unbiased coverage from mainstream media. Of course, they will deflect to antisemitism ignoring everything that's been happening and posted here. Of course, they will dislike your comments about Israel's ongoing crimes because there is no other way to defend this. 5 1
nostalgic Posted July 23, 2023 Posted July 23, 2023 57 minutes ago, Jjang said: i just want to point out that @besaidand @style17 disliked this comment just merely sharing the atrocities Israel has committed today because according to them even that is antisemitic and should not even be news. Disgusting. These are the people who are trying to hammer us with supposed moral values and shame us. We have provided every single context needed to make them understand exactly what our stance on the topic is and they still don’t want to hear any of it. They even refuse to acknowledge/sympathize with the fact that my family was displaced due to Zionism because acknowledging that would burst their bubble dream. I just want to point out that I've never defended Israel's actions in this thread and fully support Palestinian rights. All I've argued is that Zionism is more nuanced than some people are portraying it to be and that conversation needs to be had with more sensitivity given the history that created the idea. I feel terrible for your family if they've experienced displacement and I can never pretend to understand what that feels like, so I'll just say I hope you stay safe. I'm sorry you have to experience that reality.
Daddy Posted July 23, 2023 Posted July 23, 2023 4 hours ago, besaid said: Is this Noah's grandfather or just another off topic antisemitic accusation? Why is any of this relevant? Antisemitism would mean that I have something against Jewish people. I'm against the Israeli regime and supporting it by bringing your money there. It's a choice, a vote, a decision to support the oppressor. As a German I know what this behavior can lead to (or is already going on in this case) 2 3
besaid Posted July 23, 2023 Posted July 23, 2023 23 minutes ago, Daddy said: Antisemitism would mean that I have something against Jewish people. I'm against the Israeli regime and supporting it by bringing your money there. It's a choice, a vote, a decision to support the oppressor. As a German I know what this behavior can lead to (or is already going on in this case) Jews existing in Israel is not "supporting the oppressor". This ridiculous hate-based accusation is only ever applied to Jews in Israel and that is why its antisemitic. I've continually told you why what you've been saying is Jew hatred and conspiratorial and bigoted and you just don't care to hear it. No, simply visiting or existing as a Jew is not "support for genocide" or whatever other false, defamatory and bigoted claims you believe. 4 8
Jjang Posted July 23, 2023 Author Posted July 23, 2023 gonna post these here just so that fascist seethes 5 1
besaid Posted July 23, 2023 Posted July 23, 2023 2 minutes ago, Jjang said: gonna post these here just so that fascist seethes Off topic personal attacks, antisemitic hate and nothing else from you - it's disgusting. Why don't you post Madonna's numerous performances in Israel. She's toured there a lot more than most pop stars and also loves Jewish people, works with Jewish people (including Israeli producers and Jewish producers!) and does not support BDS or the belief that existing in Israel is "genocidal" or "giving support to genocide". Not surprising how only Jewish Noah Schnapp is the one you target here. 1 7
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