discussion Are homophobic "jokes" within the community enabling the recent rise of hate online?

[imabadkid]

It's never cool when one of the girlz refers to another a as f** or any other similar term. HOWEVER, you can't compare it to a hetero man (esp one with any level of power which most already have some power since we exist in a patriarchal society) calling a man a slur. I feel like in some weird way people do things like that to actually remove the power from a word... it's part of what you do when you're a marginalized community and have to exist in a system that wants to disempower you.

 

Again, don't think it's right but you can't compare the two or try to take place in respectability politics and BLAME the gay community for the homophobia that they experience when you do that you're actually excusing homophobia from real homophobes in society who have power.

[imabadkid]

2 hours ago, Lagerfeld said:

So, other gay people are being blamed for straight people's homophobia now?

MTE

[mystery]

21 minutes ago, imabadkid said:

It's never cool when one of the girlz refers to another a as f** or any other similar term. HOWEVER, you can't compare it to a hetero man (esp one with any level of power which most already have some power since we exist in a patriarchal society) calling a man a slur. I feel like in some weird way people do things like that to actually remove the power from a word... it's part of what you do when you're a marginalized community and have to exist in a system that wants to disempower you.

 

Again, don't think it's right but you can't compare the two or try to take place in respectability politics and BLAME the gay community for the homophobia that they experience when you do that you're actually excusing homophobia from real homophobes in society who have power.

Using slurs to degrade and insult others within the community isn't removing power or normalizing them from them, it is giving power to them. Some of the quotes in those tweets are absolutely disgusting and not any different from what a homophobe would say.

I am not saying that the gay community is to blame for any homophobia it it gets, I am saying that shaming others within the community for living their own life and using conservative talking points when doing so is enabling those same talking points. Enabling something is not the same as being the main source of something but it sure does help spread it, even if it is unintentional and a "innocent joke".

[Sabrina Carpenter]

it’s adding to it

[Dear Reader]

I think it is getting worse indeed. Specially on social media. There is not one day I don’t see some viral tweet hating the LGBTQ+, some even from gay men, saying that we need to leave the “TQ+” part fighting their own battle. 

It’s disgusting but I don’t think us joking between ourselves (even though some jokes are NOT acceptable even within the community, specially those in the OP) is the primary reason for this rise in hatred. 

What I think is happening is some media and countries are enabling far right parties to have a voice (and too much attention) because it’s easier to get clicks and views. And when people see that and they don’t have any critical thinking they’ll turn on us and start hating us, specially this children discourse and drag queens that has been haunting us for the last months. 

English is not my first language so I’m sorry if this is not clear enough 

[madonnas]

I always hated this trend lol and I’m glad people are finally realizing it’s lame asf.  
 

it’s also a lot of insecurity regarding personal appearance, social like, fomo, etc all wrapped into internalized homophobia so that people are happy gays minding their own business and just lash out.  
 

 

I don’t think gays doing ironic homophobia led to the right wing being more anti lgbtq, but when you can’t tell the difference between the two, you should reflect on yourself…

[KaledKalil]

Also, part of me thinks that it's also jealousy and insecurity. You see people commenting stupid **** just like it was pointed you about Jojo. Like, I'm sorry if you can't get a girlfriend or have a group of friends that enjoy beach together and wearing speedo.  

[WEEKND]

4 hours ago, Arrows said:

I always disliked those kind of jokes from the beginning. Not funny at all.

. 

[DamianSolo]

It is worth acknowledging, and I do think it does allow for people outside looking in to feel as though they can use that type of language freely. That's exactly why I don't believe in the concept of taking words and phrases and "changing" the meaning, as it relates to such circumstances. People need to be more aware than that. Either something should be said, or it shouldn't be. You may mean it as a "joke" to someone else, but someone on the outside will use that same "joke" in a derogatory manner towards someone of the LGBT community and mean it offensively. You're laughing about it, meanwhile they're legitimately making a fool out of you. And they think it's okay because they see and hear that language regularly online; so, in their mind, them being hateful is okay.

[Daddy]

Those gays just hate themselves. They hate their frail bodies and voices and faces and the way they walk and talk. They hate seeing people being happy. 

[TheCheshireCat]

I have found lately people express their homophobia and resentment by qualifying their statement with something like “Ugh twinks” “bottoms” “yt gayz” and then say something objectively hateful but feel like because they think they are “punching up” they are morally in the clear.

 

[John Slayne]

i love a good joke at the expense of gays but i think most of the time you can really tell if the person is just playing or if they are trying to bring gay people down. gay culture is funny (as is any culture! it's all random and bit silly if you think about it) and there are definitely great jokes you can make about it

 

that said, the conservative jokes are always boring and corny at best and just straight up vile and insulting at worst. and then you have a subsection of gay people who are projecting their own trauma of growing up in a homophobic world onto other gay people - hence the comments about troye sivan, tom daley, etc. i don't even like either of them but literally what did they do to have other gays attacking them online? it just smells of envy, online gays are mad that troye and tom are happy and accepted/respected in their fields. 

 

and while we can criticize privilege and the fact that most 'queer' representation is just good-looking white gay men, i don't think sending hate to specific gay people online is going to improve society in any way. 

 

i do think that most people in real life are not like this, though. we have to remember that twitter is not representative of the world population, very often people who spend a lot of time on twitter are miserable and depressed and are using the platform to bring others down so they can feel better about themselves. 

 

i could honestly write essays about this (and we haven't even mentioned internalised homophobia) but these were just my first thoughts. 

[Nido]

It's been prevalent enough on social media since the moment it started with the "maybe gays don't deserve rights" comments from individuals within the community itself who see themselves above the people that they dislike. The thing with social media is that it's super easy to say anything out of pocket or hateful without the fear of prosecution so, it's good to point out how distasteful those reactions are because by doing so, we're counteractively throwing it back at the people who resorted to saying those things out of resentment or annoyance.

[Reflektor]

7 hours ago, Khal said:

I feel like that tweet is equating different things that aren't on the same level?

 

Like sorry you're never going to convince me that "omg feed the beast aoty", which is pretty much making fun of the fact that gays like pop music is on the same level as last screenshot that calls them "AIDS patients"

 

One is lame at worst, the other is actually vile.

I certainly thought we were perhaps doing a bit much when I saw the first example but the rest were disgusting and also, not funny? It could be argued they weren't intended to be jokes.

 

This is an interesting argument that the black community has been having for ages, specifically around the use of the n-word. However, in the same way I think the onus is on non-black people to educate and police themselves the same should also go for homophobia or any other sort of bigotry. It's unfortunate however, that the internet is such a dark place and a big reason I got rid of Facebook and Twitter years ago is that it truly stressed me out seeing people feed negativity in a seemingly never-ending circle.

 

I think truly off-color "jokes" (like the AIDS example joke above which is absolutely unacceptable for anyone to make) should certainly be called out even within our community but I don't think expecting gay people -- especially millennials and older who needed humor just to survive in a culture that was even less accepting even with the current pushback -- to stop making jokes for us and by us; nor do I think it's fair? Respectability politics will only get you so far in a hetero-patriarchal capitalist society.

[Mr. Blue_Shirt]

I hate these rising of "ironic homophobia" jokes so much like, how in the hell you see queer people enjoying life and the first thing you do is making fun of them It's giving loser behavior

 

Sure these jokes aren't the same as these conservative homophobes & transphobes that can actual hate crime us in every chance they get, but you can't convince me that these jokes aren't come from a place of insecurity

 

And when alt-right nazis on social media adapt to these type of "jokes" to actually making death threats to queer people, then what??