Palestinian leader approves of Uyghur “re-education” camps

[suburbannature]

1 minute ago, style17 said:

no one’s defending Israel… just interesting how these horrid governments like Palestine which would murder u for being gay btw and China have many defenders… i wonder why that is?

Anyways. I have never been to Israel and do not support their government. Thank you. 

yet you're downvoting posts criticizing Israel's war crimes. Why's that 

[style17]

Just now, suburbannature said:

yet you're downvoting posts criticizing Israel's war crimes. Why's that 

because only Israel’s war crimes are being criticized 

[Jjang]

I mean, in no way does this comment express my personal opinion on the current Palestinian leadership, but it's interesting to observe a Zionist with a history of spreading anti-Palestinian tropes revile this decision to turn to China for political support and self-determination negotiations. One can dissect that "selling out" and dismissing the Uyghur genocide as a negative & unethical ramification of this political exchange but we can also be nuanced enough to comprehend that this is geopolitics at the end of the day and that if Palestine, who's politically at a gravely disadvantaged position and desperate for aid, wants to take a meaningful step towards resolution then it makes sense why they would turn to a non-Western superpower. Those statements are a byproduct of that political exchange and clearly one of China's conditions. Again: no one is defending those statements, but just have it be made clear that the OP's attempt to frame this alliance as anything other than that is transparent. 

 

You don't see the same energy from this user when it comes to Israel's unreasonably long history of funding and supporting genocides and influencing other countries' politics for profit, let alone prompting self - determination or other political reasons. 

 

some examples: 

The Rwandan genocide, the Srebrenica massacre, supporting South African Apartheid from 1948-1994, arming India's violence in Kashmir, arming Azerbaijan's military for the past 35 years to murder Armenians, aiding human rights violations & crimes against humanity in Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil, Colombia, Costa Rica, Dominican Republic, Mexico, Chile, Ecuador, El Salvador, Guatemala, Haiti, Honduras, Nicaragua, Paraguay, Peru & Venezuela. Mayan genocide, Pinochet Dictatorship, arming Chile's repression today, arming El Salvador's "Death Squads", arming Nicuragua's corrupt dictatorship, arming Colombia's 2021 police brutality... you got the memo by now, right? oh, and colonizing Palestine obviously.

 

 

2 hours ago, ZIVERT said:

It's worth noting that the hard shift to right in Israel (and aggressive settlement polices enacted by the right-wing government) are largely in reaction to Palestinian leadership rejecting the numerous peace deals Israel has offered over the course of its existence as a state. Israel completely disengaged from Gaza in 2005, and citizens promptly elected internationally recognized terror group Hamas into power, and the right wing was able to exert control over the narrative.

 

In principle, I agree with you. But it will take more than just Israel stopping its aggressive expansion into the West Bank for this conflict to have a real resolution.

First of all, the former left-wing government was also pushing for illegal land annexation and settlement expansions. It's not a right versus left-wing government type of issue. It is an Israeli value to regard illegal settlements on Palestinian land as something that needs to be protected and preserved. Heck, one of Israel's supreme court judges (who authorized the ethnic cleansing programs of thousands of Palestinians in East Jerusalem and the West Bank) is himself an illegal settler living on illegally occupied Palestinian land. It's a joke. The notion that Palestinians are dealing with a just entity that wants a genuine resolution is a myth. 

 

Meanwhile, Israel right now as we're speaking has launched yet another illegal military assault on Palestinians in Jenin and has killed numerous people and injured dozens, including teenagers, journalists, and medics. I wonder why that is not threaded? Maybe 'cause "peacekeeping" Israel launches an attack on Palestinians quite literally every day to the point that it's not even news anymore. But it's the barbaric Palestinians who simply can't resist military occupation and apartheid politely so all fault is on them, right?  

 

Also, Israel never relinquished control of Gaza. They withdrew the illegal settlements and the troops on the ground but Gaza is still very much occupied by every definition. It's incredible how Zionists and Israelis alike turn imprisoning 2 million Palestinians in an open-air prison into this big Israeli peace offering sacrifice. The occupation shifted from physical to remote, that's all. 

 

Literally, quoting the Israeli legislator that was head of charge of the ME peace process during Ariel Sharon's presidency:

 

Quote

 

“The significance of the disengagement plan is the freezing of the peace process, and when you freeze that process, you prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state, and you prevent a discussion on the refugees, the borders and Jerusalem. Effectively, this whole package called the Palestinian state, with all that it entails, has been removed indefinitely from our agenda. And all this with authority and permission. All with a presidential blessing and the ratification of both houses of Congress. The disengagement is actually formaldehyde, it supplies the amount of formaldehyde that is necessary so there will not be a political process with the Palestinians. That is exactly what happened, you know, the term `peace process’ is a bundle of concepts and commitments. The peace process is the establishment of a Palestinian state with all the security risks that entails. The peace process is the evacuation of settlements, it’s the return of refugees, it’s the partition of Jerusalem. And all that has now been frozen…. what I effectively agreed to with the Americans was that part of the settlements would not be dealt with at all, and the rest will not be dealt with until the Palestinians turn into Finns. That is the significance of what we did.”

 

 

 

And what matters most at the end of the day:

 

- there are still 2 million Palestinians living in an open-air prison in Gaza.

- there are still 3.5m million Palestinians in the WB & EJ living under an apartheid regime that is enforced through an illegal military occupying power.

- there are still over 6 million Palestinian refugees that according to the UN have the right to return which Israel is not granting them.

 

This is not a "right-wing government issue" in Israel. This is an Israel issue, period. 

Edited June 19, 2023 by Jjang

[ZIVERT]

I feel bad for the situation Palestinians are in, and it is partially the fault of Israel's occupation. But again, it is also partially a result of their own leadership. Rejecting any sort of cooperation with Jews from the very beginning when the territory was being divided, launching two wars with genocidal intent against Israel that failed, and then STILL refusing to negotiate - it's giving insanity. The "From the river to the sea" Arab manifest destiny idea was never and will never be a viable solution to the conflict.

 

Here is a list of peace offers which would grant the Palestinians a country of their own, they refused all of them: 

1937 - Peel commission, rejected

1947 - Partition resolution, rejected

2000 - Camp David, rejected

2001 - Taba, rejected. Arafat starts the second intifada and a year later changes his mind.

2008 - Olmert offer, rejected

Here's a video (in the article) where the chief palestinian negotiator explains what was offered in 2008. Hamas have tried to agree to boundaries Despite media attempts to portray it as a new Hamas charter, it is not. The new 'policy document' accepts the creation of a Palestinian state in 1967 borders, but still rejects Israel and claims its territory. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-39775103

 

1919: Arabs of Palestine refused nominate representatives to the Paris Peace Conference.

1920: San Remo conference decisions, rejected.

1922: League of Nations decisions, rejected.

1937: Peel Commission partition proposal, rejected.

1938: Woodhead partition proposal, rejected

1947: UN General Assembly partition proposal (UNGAR 181), rejected.

1949: Israel's outstretched hand for peace (UNGAR 194), rejected.

1967: Israel's outstretched hand for peace (UNSCR 242), rejected.

1978: Begin/Sa’adat peace proposal, rejected (except for Egypt).

1994: Rabin/Hussein peace agreement, rejected by the rest of the Arab League (except for Egypt).

1995: Rabin's Contour-for-Peace, rejected.

2000: Barak/Clinton peace offer, rejected.

2001: Barak’s offer at Taba, rejected.

2005: Sharon's peace gesture, withdrawal from Gaza, rejected.

2008: Olmert/Bush peace offer, rejected.

2009 to 2021: Netanyahu's repeated invitations to peace talks, rejected.

2014: Kerry's Contour-for-Peace, rejected.

 

And of course the backdrop to all of these peace plans are wars, bombings, plane hijackings, or even the kidnap and murder of Israeli athletes at the Munich Olympics in the 70s. I understand the argument of violence as a form of protest, but at some point something has got to give. The circle-jerk on ATRL and some other online spaces of Israelis just round up and kill Palestinians for the fun of it is tired and shows a lack of nuance. There is a complicated history where both sides have gone out of their way to antagonize each other. Just because Israel came out on top in the wars launched against them, and is the more powerful country in the modern day, doesn't automatically make Palestinians the angels in this situation. And while I agree that this is all geopolitics, it is quite interesting to see the Palestinian leadership essentially give legitimacy to China's treatment of ethnic minorities within their state. If it's okay for China to strip Uyghurs of their cultural heritage, what would happen under a hypothetical single state of Palestine?

 

Israel should be condemned for the occupation of the Palestinian Territories. It should be criticized in the same way that every other country is criticized for human rights abuses. Whether that's the US, Russia, China, Saudi Arabia, whoever. It delves into anti-Semitic territory when people openly question Israel's right to exist as a state - the "European settler" argument is an anti-Semitic dogwhistle and ruins any credibility one might bring to the table when bringing up human rights abuses.

 

Slinging the word "Zionist" around like its an insult to believe Jewish people should have the right to self-determination in their ancestral homeland is not the intellectual flex one thinks it is. Trying to personally attack me as someone who has an "anti-Palestine" agenda just because I voice the Israeli side of the conflict, which is usually left out of these conversations online, is dishonest. I would love to have and am open to conversations with people about this topic outside of the passive aggressive ATRL virtue signaling some users boil the Israel/Palestine conflict down to.

[bad guy]

4 hours ago, ZIVERT said:

It's worth noting that the hard shift to right in Israel (and aggressive settlement polices enacted by the right-wing government) are largely in reaction to Palestinian leadership rejecting the numerous peace deals Israel has offered over the course of its existence as a state. Israel completely disengaged from Gaza in 2005, and citizens promptly elected internationally recognized terror group Hamas into power, and the right wing was able to exert control over the narrative.

 

In principle, I agree with you. But it will take more than just Israel stopping its aggressive expansion into the West Bank for this conflict to have a real resolution.

I don’t think Palestinian leadership is good, or has been for years, but I disagree with that being the sole reason for Israel’s continuation of aggression. I have no doubt in my mind that even if Hamas magically disappeared and their leadership was passive towards Israel, the Israeli government would still be doing this. It’s clear their intention is to wipe Palestine off the map. 
 

That said, I also don’t think China/Russia aligning with Palestine will do anything for peace either. It’s a conflict where the solution would require complete trust, transparency, and halting of aggression which…does not seem feasible any time soon.

[Bethenny Frankel]

I wonder why Palestine is going for China's support against Taiwan...very interesting.