Nano Posted June 15, 2023 Posted June 15, 2023 3 minutes ago, Gwendolyn said: Also calling Israel a genicode particapter does not mean anti-semitism It would just be idiotic because there is literally no genocide happening in the Palestinian territories. https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/state-of-palestine-population/ Do you not know what genocide is? Or did all the anti-Israel propoganda on the internet make you think that's what's actually happening? 1 10
Negev Posted June 15, 2023 Posted June 15, 2023 Just now, Sazare said: So you agree. Israel is forming its own ethnostate. It was founded as a Jewish state in 1948 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_state
BOOMBAYAH Posted June 15, 2023 Posted June 15, 2023 It's incredibly performative when people attempt to demonize celebrities for performing for fans in so-called "dubious" countries. Firstly, let's be clear that no government on this planet can claim moral superiority, so if we start banning performances based on political issues, then Europe, Asia, and America would all be off-limits. Secondly, these celebrities are performing for their fans, and when it comes to pop artists visiting these countries (except perhaps Israel in this particular case), they might provide a rare opportunity for marginalized groups, such as the LGBTQ+ community, to experience something extraordinary and momentarily escape from the challenges of their everyday lives, where they often have to hide their true identities. So let's not hastily judge these situations without considering the potential positive impact they may have on the lives of those who need it most, especially when you live in the West and don’t have to go through the same struggles to such a degree.
More Than A Melody Posted June 15, 2023 Posted June 15, 2023 The thing is that Israel absolutely takes performing there as endorsing the government. Look at their print media and you'll see it. I think performing there if you make a statement about it would probably be quite powerful, perhaps donating proceeds from the concert to a Palestinian charity and saying you only did the concert for the fans for instance. The thing is that idk how much of a target the artist would put on their back for it, considering the US/Tory complicity with Israel, it might be taking things too far. If you don't make your stance clear, though, performing in Israel reads as endorsing their government, even if that isn't your goal and that's not how you feel and you're only doing it "for the fans." I don't think the comparison with the US makes a lot of sense in that regard. Nobody sees performing in America as endorsing their foreign policy. 5
ATRL Moderator Azulito Posted June 15, 2023 ATRL Moderator Posted June 15, 2023 Maybe not misplaced but it’s definitely selective outrage.
BOOMBAYAH Posted June 15, 2023 Posted June 15, 2023 3 minutes ago, More Than A Melody said: The thing is that Israel absolutely takes performing there as endorsing the government. Look at their print media and you'll see it. I think performing there if you make a statement about it would probably be quite powerful, perhaps donating proceeds from the concert to a Palestinian charity and saying you only did the concert for the fans for instance. The thing is that idk how much of a target the artist would put on their back for it, considering the US/Tory complicity with Israel, it might be taking things too far. If you don't make your stance clear, though, performing in Israel reads as endorsing their government, even if that isn't your goal and that's not how you feel and you're only doing it "for the fans." I don't think the comparison with the US makes a lot of sense in that regard. Nobody sees performing in America as endorsing their foreign policy. You know what's part of the problem here? The fact that people conveniently excuse America and Europe for their atrocities while singling out Israel. It's like they've turned a blind eye to the messed up things these Western nations have done, which easily overshadow the actions of Israel by tenfold. Let's get real for a moment. The United States and Europe have a laundry list of atrocities under their belts, from destructive wars to colonialism and human rights abuses that have spanned the globe. But for some reason, they get a pass while Israel gets all the heat. It's a glaring double standard that reeks of bias. We can't just cherry-pick which countries to criticize based on our personal preferences or political agendas. It's high time we examine these inconsistencies and hold all nations accountable for their actions, rather than conveniently brushing aside the wrongdoings of some while scrutinizing others. 1
Pendulum Posted June 15, 2023 Posted June 15, 2023 Just now, BOOMBAYAH said: You know what's part of the problem here? The fact that people conveniently excuse America and Europe for their atrocities while singling out Israel. It's like they've turned a blind eye to the messed up things these Western nations have done, which easily overshadow the actions of Israel by tenfold. Let's get real for a moment. The United States and Europe have a laundry list of atrocities under their belts, from destructive wars to colonialism and human rights abuses that have spanned the globe. But for some reason, they get a pass while Israel gets all the heat. It's a glaring double standard that reeks of bias. We can't just cherry-pick which countries to criticize based on our personal preferences or political agendas. It's high time we examine these inconsistencies and hold all nations accountable for their actions, rather than conveniently brushing aside the wrongdoings of some while scrutinizing others. Are you seriously comparing something that happened a century ago with the current Israeli state?
More Than A Melody Posted June 15, 2023 Posted June 15, 2023 (edited) 3 minutes ago, BOOMBAYAH said: You know what's part of the problem here? The fact that people conveniently excuse America and Europe for their atrocities while singling out Israel. It's like they've turned a blind eye to the messed up things these Western nations have done, which easily overshadow the actions of Israel by tenfold. Let's get real for a moment. The United States and Europe have a laundry list of atrocities under their belts, from destructive wars to colonialism and human rights abuses that have spanned the globe. But for some reason, they get a pass while Israel gets all the heat. It's a glaring double standard that reeks of bias. We can't just cherry-pick which countries to criticize based on our personal preferences or political agendas. It's high time we examine these inconsistencies and hold all nations accountable for their actions, rather than conveniently brushing aside the wrongdoings of some while scrutinizing others. I mean, I agree on holding the US and Europe to the fire for sure, but that's not gonna happen overnight and in the meantime, artists allowing their images and platforms to whitewash the Israel government simply shouldn't happen. Edited June 15, 2023 by More Than A Melody
Shelter Posted June 15, 2023 Posted June 15, 2023 I don’t know. It’s kinda unfair for actual fans and have nothing to do with what is going on. The US is disgusting right now and have done terrible things but we aren’t calling for artists not to perform there.
ugo Posted June 15, 2023 Posted June 15, 2023 14 minutes ago, Sazare said: So you agree. Israel is forming its own ethnostate. Well there are some countries under islamic rule as well
BOOMBAYAH Posted June 15, 2023 Posted June 15, 2023 Just now, Pendulum said: Are you seriously comparing something that happened a century ago with the current Israeli state? I'm not comparing something that happened a century ago with the current Israeli state. I'm highlighting the ongoing actions and interventions by America and Europe that continue to impact the world today. Let's talk recent examples, shall we? How about the countless military interventions and regime changes orchestrated by the United States, such as the invasion of Iraq based on false pretenses? Or the involvement of European countries in Libya, leading to a destabilised nation and a refugee crisis? And let's not forget the extensive surveillance programs and violation of privacy rights exposed by whistleblowers like Edward Snowden, which implicated both America and European nations. These are just a few instances that demonstrate the continued meddling and disregard for international law by these so-called global powers. So no, this is not about comparing historical events with the current Israeli state; it's about recognizing the ongoing actions and their consequences. It's time to hold all nations accountable for their actions in the present rather than conveniently dismissing the wrongdoings of some while scrutinizing others. 1 1
State of Grace. Posted June 15, 2023 Posted June 15, 2023 (edited) 9 minutes ago, BOOMBAYAH said: You know what's part of the problem here? The fact that people conveniently excuse America and Europe for their atrocities while singling out Israel. It's like they've turned a blind eye to the messed up things these Western nations have done, which easily overshadow the actions of Israel by tenfold. Let's get real for a moment. The United States and Europe have a laundry list of atrocities under their belts, from destructive wars to colonialism and human rights abuses that have spanned the globe. But for some reason, they get a pass while Israel gets all the heat. It's a glaring double standard that reeks of bias. We can't just cherry-pick which countries to criticize based on our personal preferences or political agendas. It's high time we examine these inconsistencies and hold all nations accountable for their actions, rather than conveniently brushing aside the wrongdoings of some while scrutinizing others. Girl, I don't think anyone is excusing the atrocities committed by America and Europe. The difference is that artists do speak up against the governments and their leaders when they perform in the US/Europe. Israel on the other hand uses these festivals and concerts to its benefit and to artwash/pinkwash heir crimes against Palestinians. Even if those are not the artists intentions and they're just doing it for their fans. Y'all need to stop with this comparison because it is *not* the same. We can acknowledge their horrible crimes without finding excuses to the ongoing genocide by Apartheid Israel in 2023. Edited June 15, 2023 by State of Grace. 2
Gwendolyn Posted June 15, 2023 Posted June 15, 2023 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Nano said: It would just be idiotic because there is literally no genocide happening in the Palestinian territories. https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/state-of-palestine-population/ Do you not know what genocide is? Or did all the anti-Israel propoganda on the internet make you think that's what's actually happening? I know what a genocide is. My grandparents came from a country which was torn apart by the British, inside and out and had a war for 3 years which resulted in the deaths of 30,000. What Israel is doing to Palestinians since the beginning of its existence has been to take as much land as possible, destroy homes, and claim cultures that aren't theirs as their own. If there wasn't a genocide, why have so many Palestinians claimed mistreatment from the Israeli state, why has the Gaza Strip gotten smaller and smaller over the years? And why can't Palestinians from the West Bank/Gaza marry Israelis and become naturalised? Why did an Israeli official just a few months ago claim there was ‘no such thing’ as a Palestinian people? I would love to know what you think, or are you going to give me The Times of Israel as a source to shut down years and years of deaths in Palestine by the IDF? Edited June 15, 2023 by Gwendolyn 1
Into The Void Posted June 15, 2023 Posted June 15, 2023 I believe the people shouldn't be punished by the actions of the government therefore if a singer wants to appease fans they can perform wherever they damn well please
Jjang Posted June 15, 2023 Posted June 15, 2023 (edited) 55 minutes ago, Nano said: There have literally been large weekly protests all across Israel against the government for months now. which has nothing to do with the occupation or Palestinian human rights, btw 99% of them are protesting the reform for different social and economical reasons that have nothing to do with the apartheid regime. which means Israeli society ironically can mobilize large protests, just not when it comes to Palestinian rights - which reflects how normalized apartheid is for Israelis, the vast majority of them worships the IDF like some comics heroes and view illegal settlers and settlements as a blessing to their nation. pls. OT- no. it’s not about being anti - Israelis. It’s about being anti - military occupation and apartheid rules. That’s not a “common normal country issue”. Edited June 15, 2023 by Jjang
ariananext Posted June 15, 2023 Posted June 15, 2023 44 minutes ago, More Than A Melody said: The thing is that Israel absolutely takes performing there as endorsing the government. Look at their print media and you'll see it. I think performing there if you make a statement about it would probably be quite powerful, perhaps donating proceeds from the concert to a Palestinian charity and saying you only did the concert for the fans for instance. The thing is that idk how much of a target the artist would put on their back for it, considering the US/Tory complicity with Israel, it might be taking things too far. If you don't make your stance clear, though, performing in Israel reads as endorsing their government, even if that isn't your goal and that's not how you feel and you're only doing it "for the fans." I don't think the comparison with the US makes a lot of sense in that regard. Nobody sees performing in America as endorsing their foreign policy. You made a good point - I think (or hope) that pop girls/boys' target aren't people who would agree with the Israeli government and would actually boycott it, but it's such a hard situation, that's why just staying away is the best thing to do, if they hold a concert there and make a statement it could be potentially dangerous to the artist/fans, which ultimately is more important than the show itself. 1
Mast Posted June 15, 2023 Posted June 15, 2023 (edited) Everyone saying "no country can claim moral superiority" yes this is true, but Palestinian liberation groups have specifically asked for the boycott of Israel. That's the difference. Just like I wouldn't travel to Hawaii because native Hawaiians groups have specified that tourism is hurting their ecosystems and culture/some have expressed that they do not welcome tourists at all. The reality is that Israel will use acts from out of the country to produce propaganda. They'll put out as many articles and social media posts as possible about how X artists loves Israel and in the process obscure the human rights atrocities the state is committing. That's why artists shouldn't perform in Israel. No other country does propaganda like Israel does, not even Russia nor the US. Edited June 15, 2023 by Mast
Obsession Posted June 15, 2023 Posted June 15, 2023 No, it's not. Palestinian advocates have asked for a cultural boycott of Is(n't)real and the bare minimum is not collecting a check to perform there
Contessa Posted June 15, 2023 Posted June 15, 2023 1 hour ago, byzantium said: However I would not blame a struggling musician who took a good offer to perform in Israel. Yes, for this reason I don't feel anger toward xtina performing there. 1 1
Abracadabra Posted June 15, 2023 Posted June 15, 2023 I just don't understand why the outrage/anger is so selective. Lots of artists perform there but only some get backlash for it
dlwlrma Posted June 15, 2023 Posted June 15, 2023 1 hour ago, Mast said: The reality is that Israel will use acts from out of the country to produce propaganda. They'll put out as many articles and social media posts as possible about how X artists loves Israel and in the process obscure the human rights atrocities the state is committing. That's why artists shouldn't perform in Israel. No other country does propaganda like Israel does, not even Russia nor the US. I mean US don't need to do obviously propaganda, because these artists are already the personification of their values, same about Hollywood. That's the whole purpose of mainstream industry.
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