ATRL Administrator Ryan Posted June 18, 2023 ATRL Administrator Posted June 18, 2023 20 minutes ago, Monster Megamind said: This is directly related to the topic in discussion. It is. It’s also borderline offensive. Asking you to be mindful of comments like this, and know that just because you’re liberal doesn’t mean it can’t be considered bigoted.
Communion Posted June 18, 2023 Posted June 18, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Monster Megamind said: "relative to 2020 Biden numbers." Same tweet, with raw numbers: "+20 Rashida Tlaib", "*bright blue on map* So what you're telling us is that, even with a massive multi-year campaign of anti-LGBTQ propaganda led by Republicans and the presence of Prop 3 on the ballot to codify abortion rights into law, the highly conservative enclaves of Michigan's historical Muslim communities... still voted for their progressive rep by 20-points? Of course not supporting LGBT rights or a woman's right to choose is condemnable, but such maps highlight the absurdity in those who wish to fan the flames of reactionary cultural wars by pretending that there is some mass exodus of ~conservatives of color~ abandoning the Democratic Party or itself making the Democratic Party more conservative. You're quite literally highlighting a map that shows the attention is out-sized. This conversation is no different than those who claim (falsely) that black or Latino voters are uniformly conservatives and Democrats are losing them "by going woke" despite no evidence of such actually happening. You can condemn people of color who are conservative without concocting a conspiracy theory of some mass political change that simply isn't occurring. Edited June 18, 2023 by Communion
Monster Megamind Posted June 18, 2023 Posted June 18, 2023 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Communion said: "relative to 2020 Biden numbers." Same tweet, with raw numbers: "+20 Rashida Tlaib", "*bright blue on map* So what you're telling us is that, even with a massive multi-year campaign of anti-LGBTQ propaganda led by Republicans and the presence of Prop 3 on the ballot to codify abortion rights into law, the highly conservative enclaves of Michigan's historical Muslim communities... still voted for their progressive rep by 20-points? Firstly I gave you exact receipts to disprove your allegations of me and you moved the goalposts. Also A 40 point swing is humongous! That too within a span of 2 years! How can you trivialize it! It's a good thing the suburbans have once again cushioned the Dems. Thanks to liberals! Also we already know they are voting Rashida because she's a Muslim, and not because she's a progressive, let's be real. Edited June 18, 2023 by Monster Megamind
Communion Posted June 18, 2023 Posted June 18, 2023 1 minute ago, Monster Megamind said: How can you trivialize it! "Behold, the new GOP stronghold of Michigan!"
Monster Megamind Posted June 18, 2023 Posted June 18, 2023 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Communion said: "Behold, the new GOP stronghold of Michigan!" The same thing is happening in the orthodox Jewish enclave in New York city. Now that their population size is big enough to get a state legislative district, there were already rumors that their representative could possibly become republican. When dearborn reaches to that level and votes republican, I guess then you can wake up! Edited June 18, 2023 by Monster Megamind
Communion Posted June 18, 2023 Posted June 18, 2023 24 minutes ago, Monster Megamind said: we already know they are voting Rashida because she's a Muslim, and not because she's a progressive I'm sorry, not only is this gross but it also is brazenly hypocritical. The entire ethos of Joe Biden's presidency has been the claim that the Democratic Party is strongest when forming coalitions of groups who are not ideologically bound to one another. The entire logic behind trying win the suburbs has been "they're not liberal, but they're at least anti-Trump!". Joe Biden literally won the 2020 primary after the boost he received from winning conservative black voters in ruby-red South Carolina of all places. The rhetoric can't go from "the base of the party isn't going to agree on everything but we can come together where we agree!!" to "we need to ban Muslim migrants". Such rhetoric proves this has nothing to do with the actual reality of elections and the consequences of elections - Whitmer still won Hamtramck in 2022 by over 60-points (!) - and it's just electoral derangement syndrome where you've convinced yourself this is how you win over immigration hardline conservatives. The suburban white women of Livonia who only finally turned to Whitmer in 2022 after the GOP went so far-right that abortion would now be impacted still themselves voted for Trump in 2020. That the presence of conservative Muslim voices has neither materialized in 1) the progressive politicians representing these districts moving to the right on LGBT issues or abortion (irony being that centrists consistently argue for triangulation on policy based on conservative fringe voters) or 2) these progressive politicians losing their seats to Republican opposition, shows that this rhetoric you're pushing is not meaningful. Everyone knows what you're doing when you argue "who cares if white suburban women don't want to pay more taxes to help give us M4A? that's where the votes are!!!" and then go "maybe we should deport all those Muslims.."
Monster Megamind Posted June 18, 2023 Posted June 18, 2023 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Communion said: I'm sorry, not only is this gross but it also is brazenly hypocritical. The entire ethos of Joe Biden's presidency has been the claim that the Democratic Party is strongest when forming coalitions of groups who are not ideologically bound to one another. The entire logic behind trying win the suburbs has been "they're not liberal, but they're at least anti-Trump!". Joe Biden literally won the 2020 primary after the boost he received from winning conservative black voters in ruby-red South Carolina of all places. The rhetoric can't go from "the base of the party isn't going to agree on everything but we can come together where we agree!!" to "we need to ban Muslim migrants". Such rhetoric proves this has nothing to do with the actual reality of elections and the consequences of elections - Whitmer still won Hamtramck in 2022 by over 60-points (!) - and it's just electoral derangement syndrome where you've convinced yourself this is how you win over immigration hardline conservatives. The suburban white women of Livonia who only finally turned to Whitmer in 2022 after the GOP went so far-right that abortion would now be impacted still themselves voted for Trump in 2020. That the presence of conservative Muslim voices has neither materialized in 1) the progressive politicians representing these districts moving to the right on LGBT issues or abortion (irony being that centrists consistently argue for triangulation on policy based on conservative fringe voters) or 2) these progressive politicians losing their seats to Republican opposition, shows that this rhetoric you're pushing is not meaningful. Everyone knows what you're doing when you argue "who cares if white suburban women don't want to pay more taxes to help give us M4A? that's where the votes are!!!" and then go "maybe we should deport all those Muslims.." After fighting for 50 years with Christians for our gay rights, now we have to fight another religious community for the same rights, now tell me how I'm wrong? Should we accept any person to the detriment of our social causes? Also this conservative people of Livonia aren't banning LGBT flags and neither are black or Hispanic majority areas so tell me who's worse. Edited June 18, 2023 by Monster Megamind
Monster Megamind Posted June 18, 2023 Posted June 18, 2023 This is probably the one reason why I'm for making public college tuition free so that we can make the children of all immigrants less bigoted....
Communion Posted June 18, 2023 Posted June 18, 2023 5 minutes ago, Monster Megamind said: now we have to fight another religious community "5 council city members elected by a total of 2,000 votes able to achieve the banning of the pride flag on government property - only under a flag ordinance that banned other flags - despite being part of the largest reactionary anti-LGBTQ movement in the greater span of a decade and while receiving immense backlash" is again only further highlighting the out-sized attention you have chosen to give this matter. But of course, you've done so intentionally and knowingly in the hope of achieving your own right-wing goals. Because if we point out how the reactions to the reality are out-sized, you'll claim people are ignoring the issue entirely. You'll argue people are somehow protecting conservative Muslims or pretending that they don't exist. But yet this pales in comparison to the way anti-LGBTQ hysteria overtook a state like Virginia, who could elect a Republican to governorship off of the back of such a right-wing movement. And I seem to remember centrist Dems taking Youngkin's win in Virginia as evidence we had to abandon LGBT matters to "win back the burbs". I'm glad the conservative enemy here now looking a little different has suddenly gotten you fully onboard with LGBTQ issues after previously calling them "election losers". Hopefully once something like this is as quickly resolved with a change in council membership come next election as quickly as the current council got elected, you'll still be around to fight for LGBT people.
Monster Megamind Posted June 18, 2023 Posted June 18, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Communion said: "5 council city members elected by a total of 2,000 votes able to achieve the banning of the pride flag on government property - only under a flag ordinance that banned other flags - despite being part of the largest reactionary anti-LGBTQ movement in the greater span of a decade and while receiving immense backlash" is again only further highlighting the out-sized attention you have chosen to give this matter. But of course, you've done so intentionally and knowingly in the hope of achieving your own right-wing goals. Because if we point out how the reactions to the reality are out-sized, you'll claim people are ignoring the issue entirely. You'll argue people are somehow protecting conservative Muslims or pretending that they don't exist. But yet this pales in comparison to the way anti-LGBTQ hysteria overtook a state like Virginia, who could elect a Republican to governorship off of the back of such a right-wing movement. And I seem to remember centrist Dems taking Youngkin's win in Virginia as evidence we had to abandon LGBT matters to "win back the burbs". I'm glad the conservative enemy here now looking a little different has suddenly gotten you fully onboard with LGBTQ issues after previously calling them "election losers". Hopefully once something like this is as quickly resolved with a change in council membership come next election as quickly as the current council got elected, you'll still be around to fight for LGBT people. Not a single Virginia rep has abandoned LGBT issues. Even centrist Dems like Abigail Spanbanger is very pro Trans! But it's quite hypocritical of you to support bigots and not even give them a single iota of blame and rather we liberals are the problem here apparently.... Edited June 18, 2023 by Monster Megamind
Communion Posted June 18, 2023 Posted June 18, 2023 Just now, Monster Megamind said: Not a single Virginia rep I didn't say elected Dems. I said centrists at large, particularly you.
Monster Megamind Posted June 18, 2023 Posted June 18, 2023 1 minute ago, Communion said: I didn't say elected Dems. I said centrists at large, particularly you. When did I EVER say we should abandon LGBT causes? Now you are just bluffing I guess. Why would I call myself a liberal if I ever said that... But I know plenty of leftists who want only economically leftist goals not social ones.
Armani? Posted June 21, 2023 Posted June 21, 2023 On 6/18/2023 at 5:35 PM, WEEKND said: This is Detroit lol It's not Detroit
Horizon Flame Posted June 22, 2023 Author Posted June 22, 2023 On 6/18/2023 at 6:46 PM, Monster Megamind said: This is probably the one reason why I'm for making public college tuition free so that we can make the children of all immigrants less bigoted.... You think people who go to college aren’t bigoted?
VOSS Posted July 21, 2023 Posted July 21, 2023 Quote Russ Gordon and Cathy Stackpoole were removed from the Hamtramck Human Relations Commission after a unanimous vote from the council Tuesday. The council also voted to remove the commission's authority to fly flags on city property. According to the commission's website, its purpose is "to promote mutual understanding and respect for multiculturalism and diversity, advocate for peace and justice and encourage tolerance and constructive communication." This decision came after Gordon and Stackpile flew a rainbow Pride flag over a public sidewalk for several hours. Source
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