news NYT: Growing neo-nazi sentiment in Ukrainian army threatens to erode Western support

[Rep2000]

4 hours ago, Jaguarqueef said:

It’s definitely a good percentage of Neo Nazis in Ukraine. As well as in Russia and Poland and a lot of Eastern Europe.

The US should be cautious of supporting a regime/group without significant demands.If the US keeps pouring $$ into Ukraine significant concessions will have to be made, ala Mujahadeen morphing into the Taliban.

 

There’s a reason Israel is extremely lukewarm in it’s support of Ukraine.

 

The Russian excuse of invading Ukraine to eradicate neo nazism is bs though.

Yeah, as if Israel doesn't wanna piss off Russia and their allies in the region

If we wanna speak "good percentage of Nazi" in any country, let's remember that Neo Nazis marching in America's capital just a month ago. And no one, no police, no politicians even stopped them.

[Bloodflowers.]

Politics being nuanced and not as simple as ATRL discorse tends to be? Shocker!

 

You can still criticize deeper roots and problems of broad Ukranian aspect because those issues may effect Ukranians themselves (like Ukranian LGBT community for instance, and relationships with international countries longterm, and the growing support and brainwashing of local people who don't know better) without being a damn Putin supporter, but that would be too complex for most ATRLers brain cells to catch two and two together.

 

 

[Zaram]

The way we have on ATRL more threads against Ukraine than against Russia tells a lot

 

Also it's that user again...

Edited June 10, 2023 by Zaram

[RunUpDoneUp]

The attention is from people who want ukranians to acquiesce to Russian demands.

 

No one is surprised by nazis in a war between white people. Just hope they die first.

[Bosque]

There are neonazis in literally every country in the world, including in leadership positions. By this logic, the USA and China should just immediately nuke each other to solve the neo Nazi problem in both countries. Good luck booking that erosion of Western support you speak of 

 

June 9 2023 - US announces $2.1 billion more military assistance for Ukraine

 

May 17 2023 - https://www.euractiv.com/section/global-europe/news/borrell-asks-for-e3-5-billion-boost-to-eu-fund-used-for-ukraine-military-aid/

 

June 8 2023 - Retired Australian F/A-18 Hornet jets a step closer to joining Ukraine's war effort

Edited June 10, 2023 by Dephira

[Aethereal]

There is zero evidence to support that Ukraine has a bigger Neo Nazi base than Russia itself, but either way actual Neo Nazis are negligible in numbers in comparison with the total number of population in both of those countries.

 

The weirdness of @Communion bringing this and at the same time speaking against the stereotypes of Muslims when Islamic extremists and Shariah law supporters are a far greater threat in the present time than Neo Nazis in Ukraine are when taking in consideration their numbers (far more numerous) and power. While most Neo Nazis in  Eastern Europe are uneducated street thugs. Do you practice what you preach?

 

What is also weird is that Ukraine is in the middle of war and thousands civils have died, millions have been displaced and there are hundreds of billions dollar damage done so far while the OP who has over 35,000 post from 2016 and never brought the issue of Neo Nazis in Ukraine until now. 

[Komet]

6 hours ago, Zaram said:

The way we have on ATRL more threads against Ukraine than against Russia tells a lot

 

Also it's that user again...

And when you tell RuSSian propaganda spreaders to **** off, you get banned because 'everyone needs to feel respected and safe' or however that corprate speak went

[Communion]

1 hour ago, Aristotle said:

There is zero evidence to support that Ukraine has a bigger Neo Nazi base than Russia itself, but either way actual Neo Nazis are negligible in numbers in comparison with the total number of population in both of those countries.

 

The weirdness of @Communion bringing this and at the same time speaking against the stereotypes of Muslims when Islamic extremists and Shariah law supporters are a far greater threat in the present time than Neo Nazis in Ukraine are when taking in consideration their numbers (far more numerous) and power. While most Neo Nazis in  Eastern Europe are uneducated street thugs. Do you practice what you preach?

 

What is also weird is that Ukraine is in the middle of war and thousands civils have died, millions have been displaced and there are hundreds of billions dollar damage done so far while the OP who has over 35,000 post from 2016 and never brought the issue of Neo Nazis in Ukraine until now. 

Sis nearly everything you've posted in here is factually untrue. 

 

The vast majority of terrorist attacks that occur in Europe (85%+) are by far-right nationalists. And it's annoying that you make these intellectually dishonest arguments cause you'll just then turn around and go "oh so victims of Islamic terrorist attacks in Europe don't matter???". Of course they do. But your claim that Islamism is somehow a bigger threat to your average European than Neo-Nazism is patently untrue. 

 

As well, I have "beef" explicitly with some members on here BECAUSE I have said for years on here that Europe's neo-nazi roots are derived explicitly from its anti-communisn. 

 

Being scolded for having a certain amount of posts from someone downplaying nazism is so odd especially when interacting with you previously and being largely respectful even when you would discuss that you "were trying to stop reading neo-nazi forums so much"????

 

Edit - You literally hid the thread where you discussed reading neo- nazi forums:

https://atrl.net/forums/topic/442375-study-white-leftists-move-from-diverse-zones-as-much-as-rightwing-whites/

Edited June 10, 2023 by Communion

[Aethereal]

16 minutes ago, Communion said:

Sis nearly everything you've posted in here is factually untrue. 

 

The vast majority of terrorist attacks that occur in Europe (85%+) are by far-right nationalists. And it's annoying that you make these intellectually dishonest arguments cause you'll just then turn around and go "oh so victims of Islamic terrorist attacks in Europe don't matter???". Of course they do. But your claim that Islamism is somehow a bigger threat to your average European than Neo-Nazism is patently untrue. 

 

As well, I have "beef" explicitly with some members on here BECAUSE I have said for years on here that Europe's neo-nazi roots are derived explicitly from its anti-communisn. 

 

Being scolded for having a certain amount of posts from someone downplaying nazism is so odd especially when interacting with you previously and being largely respectful even when you would discuss that you "were trying to stop reading neo-nazi forums so much"????

Why specify Ukraine, in the middle of the war? Obviously most far-right attacks committed in Europe are done by white people as they are the vast majority of the population but I was talking by a worldwide perspective. I am more paranoid by Islamic extremism than by neo-Nazis because I know that Neo-Nazi are dying off like dinosaurs. 

 

I was simply pointing out your hypocrisy.

 

EDIT: Yes I seldom read far-right sites and forum just like you. I admitted it, myself, to you. I have hidden numerous threads. I only hid it because the author of the article turned out to be not so reliable. Do you know that these sites actually support Russia, and spread anti-Ukrainian propaganda?

Edited June 10, 2023 by Aristotle

[Communion]

20 minutes ago, Aristotle said:

EDIT: Yes I seldom read far-right sites and forums

 

The worst part is that your own far-right ideological leanings mean you earnestly view leftists somehow as hypocritical despite being ideologically consistent, while you yourself end up betrayed by your own ideology that's left you not able to see the brazen hypocrisy in shouting "most Muslims in the world are conservative and so we should focus on THE MAJORITY and not a small progressive minority" but then going "it's not newsworthy if most terrorists in Europe are neo-nazis! Who cares! I am more paranoid about being killed by a random Muslim in the street!!!".

 

"Paranoid" sure is the right word for it. 

Edited June 10, 2023 by Communion

[Aethereal]

9 minutes ago, Communion said:

 

The worst part is that your own far-right ideological leanings mean you earnestly view leftists somehow as hypocritical despite being ideologically consistent, while you yourself end up betrayed by your own ideology that's left you not able to see the brazen hypocrisy in shouting "most Muslims in the world are conservative and so we should focus on THE MAJORITY and not a small progressive minority" but then going "it's not newsworthy if most terrorists in Europe are neo-nazis! Who cares! I am more paranoid about being killed by a random Muslim in the street!!!".

 

"Paranoid" sure is the right word for it. 

Yikes! So manipulative.  I do think that death penalty for homosexuals and other Iran policies are a bigger problem than Neo-Nazis in the streets of Kyiv. This is my original post stop derailing it with Islamists vs Nazis nonsense. Even though I did bring this point myself but at this point this has just turned into ad-hominem by you.

 

There is zero evidence to support that Ukraine has a bigger Neo Nazi base than Russia itself, but either way actual Neo Nazis are negligible in numbers in comparison with the total number of population in both of those countries.

 

The weirdness of @Communion bringing this and at the same time speaking against the stereotypes of Muslims when Islamic extremists and Shariah law supporters are a far greater threat in the present time than Neo Nazis in Ukraine are when taking in consideration their numbers (far more numerous) and power. While most Neo Nazis in  Eastern Europe are uneducated street thugs. Do you practice what you preach?

 

What is also weird is that Ukraine is in the middle of war and thousands civils have died, millions have been displaced and there are hundreds of billions dollar damage done so far while the OP who has over 35,000 post from 2016 and never brought the issue of Neo Nazis in Ukraine until now. 

 

Edited June 10, 2023 by Aristotle

[Communion]

27 minutes ago, Aristotle said:

and other Iran policies

?

 

 

I.. don't think that this is a factually accurate map of Europe, sis!

 

*news of conservative Muslims in the West posted*

> "Stop avoiding the actual topic at hand. Let people discuss the issues of Islam when it's the topic of discussion! Stop silencing important discussions!"

 

*news of far-right nationalists in Europe posted*

> "Stop trying to make this a topic! This shouldn't even be what we discuss! Let's silence this nonsense topic! We should be discussing instead Islam."

 

Odd how all the world's problems all somehow are redirected to talking about Muslims. How convenient it is that it is never an appropriate time to discuss the far-right of Europe.

 

 

Edited June 10, 2023 by Communion

[Aethereal]

32 minutes ago, Communion said:

?

 

 

I.. don't think that this is a factually accurate map of Europe, sis!

 

*news of conservative Muslims in the West posted*

> "Stop avoiding the actual topic at hand. Let people discuss the issues of Islam when it's the topic of discussion! Stop silencing important discussions!"

 

*news of far-right nationalists in Europe posted*

> "Stop trying to make this a topic! This shouldn't even be what we discuss! Let's silence this nonsense topic! We should be discussing instead Islam."

 

Odd how all the world's problems all somehow are redirected to talking about Muslims. How convenient it is that it is never an appropriate time to discuss the far-right of Europe.

 

 

Putin used Neo Nazis as an excuse to invade Ukraine. And you're cosigning his point.  If you posted this article in 2021 none of us would care.  

 

This is pretty much on par with some Europeans who use terrorist attacks as an excuse to deport all Muslims from Europe. 

 

The fascinating point is that Russia probably has more Neo-Nazis themselves so that makes Putin more irrational than those Western right-wingers. 

 

I was simply pointing out your hypocrisy. Enough with the Nazism vs Islamism. 

 

Edited June 10, 2023 by Aristotle

[Communion]

15 minutes ago, Aristotle said:

And you're cosigning his point. 

Any suggestion that leftists acknowledging history or the NYT literally going on to *defend* such symbology is in-line with Putin's views would have to be a product of fundamentally not understanding what words mean.

 

Again, it's brazenly hypocritical that people concerned about a hyper-focus on minority Muslim communities because of Islamophobia are dismissed and told we're "supporting an ideology of death", but then the acknowledging of simple, observable facts with regards to historical neo-nazism in Europe at large is deemed uncouth and inappropriate because "be tactful of what time we're time in". Oh, so now you DO support approaching politics with nuance? So NOW you support self-censoring because there's bigger issues afoot?

 

That's why I pointed out that you can't see your hypocrisy. You don't even know what you want leftists to do. There's no world where it's inappropriate to discuss far-right nationalism in Europe due to Russia's fascism but conversations about Muslims in Europe ARE appropriate despite their overwhelmingly far-right, racialized tone. It's either both are tactless or neither are. You don't get to have it both ways. 

Edited June 10, 2023 by Communion

[ZIVERT]

Russia: One party dictatorship with fascist tendencies, no elections, literal neo-Nazi mercenary army openly committing war crimes on behalf of the Russian government

 

ATRL user Communion: Well clearly Ukraine are the Nazis

[Johnny Jacobs]

On 6/10/2023 at 3:35 AM, byzantium said:

You are exhausting, but I guess you now know how everyone feels when they engage with you.  

why are you even entertaining him? just ignore it. this user is jumping on every thread of this topic defending this behavior. its nothing new

 

OT: there are supporters of this vile movement in every organization im afraid.. nothing we can do about it really.

[Aren]

Ukrainian nationalists are very much into racial purity. They say Russians are ‘mixed with Mongols’, that they are not real Europeans or Slavs etc. But then again, it’s not like Russians are any less racist and don’t call people from the Caucasus the N word.

[John Slayne]

most armies in the world lean heavily right-wing/nationalist and even neo-nazi... the job just attracts those kinds of personalities and worldviews unfortunately 

[John Slayne]

On 6/10/2023 at 4:33 PM, Aristotle said:

While most Neo Nazis in  Eastern Europe are uneducated street thugs.

this is false, neo-nazism is a big problem in everywhere in Europe and in many countries (Eastern, Central, and even Western Europe) they are elected officials. @Communion is right to point out that in Europe at present time, far-right politics are a much bigger threat to freedom than conservative Muslims

Edited June 11, 2023 by John Slayne

[Letemtalk]

On 6/11/2023 at 3:33 AM, Aristotle said:

Islamic extremists and Shariah law supporters are a far greater threat in the present time than Neo Nazis in Ukraine are when taking in consideration their numbers (far more numerous) and power.

List of fatal terrorist attacks in my country since 1980 - not counting incidents where only the terrorist was killed:

 

1. March 1984, Wellington Trades Hall Bombing
- death toll: 1
- perpetrator was never caught, prime suspect was a retired marine engineer with explosives expertise and anti-union attitudes

 

2. July 1985, Rainbow Warrior bombing
- death toll: 1
- perpetrators: State sponsored terrorism by a NATO country, killed one photographer on board the Rainbow Warrior ship which was berthed in Auckland harbour. The attack was a double-tap, with the second bomb timed to go off when people come to investigate the first explosion. The victim was killed by the second bomb.

 

3. March 2019, Christchurch mosque shootings
- death toll: 51
- perpetrator: Far Right extremist, killed 51 people and injured 40 others at the Al Noor Mosque and Linwood Islamic Centre in Christchurch. He live-streamed the shooting on Facebook. He left a manifesto praising Trump and other far right and Neo-Nazi leaders. In 2015, he had taken a trip to Ukraine and met extreme right-wing groups. His weapons and equipment carried the Black Sun symbol used by Ukrainian and other Eastern European Neo-Nazis.

 

https://time.com/5926750/azov-far-right-movement-facebook/

 

Quote

After the worst such attack in recent years—the massacre of 51 people in Christchurch, New Zealand, in 2019—an arm of the Azov movement helped distribute the terrorist’s raving manifesto, in print and online, seeking to glorify his crimes and inspire others to follow. In the 16 years that followed the attacks of 9/11, far-right groups were responsible for nearly three-quarters of the 85 deadly extremist incidents that took place on American soil, according to a report published in 2017 by the U.S. Government Accountability Office.

Please stop pretending that they are harmless.

 

On 6/11/2023 at 4:26 AM, Aristotle said:

Putin used Neo Nazis as an excuse to invade Ukraine. And you're cosigning his point.  If you posted this article in 2021 none of us would care.  

People been talking about this for quite some time - see the link above. You probably didn't care because most of the targets were non-white.

 

Just in case there is any doubt, Ukraine has every right to defend itself against invasion and occupation, but that doesn't mean we should turn a blind eye to Neo Nazis in Ukraine, in Western Europe, in Florida or anywhere else.

 

[Gottasadae]

I'm kinda wondering why mods even allowing those russian propagandists to create such a threads to spread the misinformation and hate. It's basically always the same two users that are trying to justify russian aggression and putin crimes in Ukraine  Disgusting!

[ZIVERT]

Quote

Regarding the myth of Nazi-ruled Ukraine, this is a clear propaganda narrative that became a cornerstone in pro-Kremlin disinformation, which can clearly be challenged with the issue of a 2015 ban on Nazi and Communist ideologies, and with the far-right groups having limited presence during the Euromaidan protests itself and have suffered defeats in every national election after that, with a united front of all radical right-wing parties in the 2019 parliamentary elections winning only 2.15% of the vote falling far short of the 5% minimum guaranteeing entry into parliament.

See similar disinformation cases in our database alleging that far-right coup government in Kyiv emerged from the 2014 Maidan uprising; or that Zelenskyy's regime is based on Nazism; or that Bandera's sympathisers have a large influence on Ukraine; or that Ukraine has established an apartheid regime; or that the US supported the 2014 coup.

The amount of far-right Russian disinformation and propaganda that is allowed to be posted on ATRL just because it comes from the two self-proclaimed Communists is ridiculous. It’s not a coincidence that the Soviet Union LARPers want to demonize Ukrainian victims in the same way the ultimate Stalin apologist, Vladimir Putin, does. Ukraine is the only former USSR member state that has had free elections since independence, and NONE of these elections have resulted in any “far-right Neo-nazi” parties taking power. Meanwhile, Putin has remained the sole authority figure in the Russian Federation for the majority of its existence, and has used that power and influence to sow discord and spread far right ideologies across the free world.

 

Ukraine is not a neo-Nazi state. The only people parroting this claim are neo-Nazis themselves.

Edited June 12, 2023 by ZIVERT

[Communion]

On 6/11/2023 at 12:11 PM, John Slayne said:

this is false, neo-nazism is a big problem in everywhere in Europe and in many countries (Eastern, Central, and even Western Europe) they are elected officials. @Communion is right to point out that in Europe at present time, far-right politics are a much bigger threat to freedom than conservative Muslims

I know someone linked to uhh "euvsdisinfo.eu" above, but the issue with knee-jerk reactions to these discussions (though I understand why some people have them), is that they perpetuate a kind of over-"correction" that ends up actually erasing the stories and view points of Holocaust survivors. Someone claiming nazism in the EU just amounts to "street thugs" is just.. not true. 

 

We just have to look at how leftist Jewish scholars have historically discussed Ukraine and the modern trends within Eastern Europe (Russia and Ukraine and the entirety of the Baltics) over the last 30 years where Holocaust denialism has flourished within the region under the guise of anti-communism (the above copy-and-paste literally does the "nazism AND communism evils!!" trick ).

 

Quote

While the images of an American assistant secretary of state becoming a close supporter of far-right antics to effect regime change were disturbing enough, it is the image of Senator John McCain embracing Oleg Tyahnybok, the head of the racist, antisemitic Svoboda party in Ukraine, last December that has become the most potent and permanent visual image of America’s folly there. 

 

MANY ELITES IN THE REGION have chosen to build national myths of heroism not on great artists, thinkers, poets or scientists but on their own nation’s Holocaust collaborators and perpetrators. Most typically, the basis for this is that these Holocaust perpetrators were also anti-Soviet and anti-Russian (which is in most cases absolutely true of East European collaborators and perpetrators of the Holocaust).

 

The fact is that in the territories conquered by Hitler following upon the Barbarossa invasion of the USSR launched on 22 June 1941, local nationalist “heroes” in the Baltics and (western) Ukraine started humiliating, molesting and murdering Jewish neighbors even before the first German forces arrived.

 

They went on to voluntarily and enthusiastically provide extensive manpower to do much (in some areas most) of the actual killing (very different from collaboration in the west, which entailed betrayal to the Gestapo, participating in deportations, and the like).

 

During a quarter century of our thousands of interviews with Holocaust survivors from Lithuania, Latvia, Belarus and Ukraine, virtually all credit their survival (in contrast to their betrayal by nationalist neighbors) to the Soviet Union, which was the only serious force in Eastern Europe opposing the Nazis from Barbarossa through to the end of the war. There were no American or British troops in those parts.

The Neocons and Holocaust Revisionism in Eastern Europe
Jewish Currents, July 23 2014, Dovid Katz
https://jewishcurrents.org/neocons-holocaust-revisionism-eastern-europe
https://jewishcurrents.org/neocons-holocaust-revisionism-eastern-europe-continued

 

Quote

Ukrainian nationalists who worship statues, banners and monuments to Holocaust mass-murderer Stepan Bandera are inherently far-right racists, even when they dress up as centrists for the benefit of CNN. Anyone who has visited Ukraine at length knows that the Bandera-worshippers regard Jews, Russians and Poles (among others) as inferior beings whose existence is an unwelcome stain on the desired ethnic purity of the nation-state.

 

Precisely in the spirit of 1930s Aryanism, in fact, Banderism in fact “gave them” pure(ish) ethnic enclaves in some of Ukraine’s west.

 

Russia’s misbehavior can and must be countered as a separate issue, not by giving succor to pro-Nazi forces whose attraction for us is that they are anti-Russia. Incidentally, this echoes the excuse offered for the Holocaust period itself with regard to the wiping out of races. One often hears that participation in the genocide of the Jewish civilian population was “part of what we had to do to get the Russian Communists out, because it’s what Hitler wanted, and we were sure that upon victory, Germany would restore our nation’s independence.”

 

Aside from the moral repugnance of linking worthy independence with genocide of a minority living in your country, it is of course utter historic nonsense. The East European Slavs and Balts were themselves slated for future extinction as their lands were to become the new eastern pleasure-grounds of the master race’s Reich. Had the Nazis won the war, there would have been no Latvia, Lithuania or Ukraine to become independent in 1991

When “Putin” Becomes an Excuse for Hitler-Glorification
Jewish Currents, October 10 2016, Dovid Katz
https://jewishcurrents.org/when-putin-becomes-an-excuse-for-hitler-glorification

 

Quote

At its theoretical apex — and moral nadir — among scholars, politicians, and prosecutors in the Baltics and Ukraine, Bogus moral equivalence has also involved unstinting efforts to smear Holocaust victims and survivors. This reached its low point with a campaign by Lithuanian prosecutors to open “pre-trial investigations” of Holocaust survivors — particularly those who survived by joining groups of Soviet-sponsored partisans in the forests, or who in recent years supposedly committed “libel” against Baltic “heroes” who had collaborated with the Nazis. The campaign started in 2006, and it goes on indefinitely (one of the five primary victims of these “investigations,” Dr. Rachel Margolis, passed away in 2015), although charges or specific allegations have never been proffered — nor have any state apologies ever been forthcoming.

Quote

 

American values also include the commitment to freedom of speech. But srange to tell, freedom of speech has not been the rule for issues involving Double Genocide: Eastern European states have been passing laws effectively criminalizing the opinion that there was but one genocide in the region. The punishments now enshrined in law range from imprisonment for two years in Lithuania to ten years in Ukraine. As for the American heritage issue, it a gross betrayal of American pride to consign to oblivion America’s huge sacrifices in the anti-Nazi war, in alliance with Great Britain and the Soviet Union, among others, because a few of our allies don’t like this or that chapter of history.

The “Double Genocide” Theory
Jewish Currents, November 22 2017, Dovid Katz
https://jewishcurrents.org/the-double-genocide-theory

 

The implications of unquestionably buying the narrative of Eastern European powers with regards to modern neo-nazism in the region in order to support Ukraine against Russia, as though they are somehow inherently connected when they are not, also has troubling implications for the region as a whole:

 

"Are Leaders of Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Romania ‘Taking Advantage’ of Ukraine Tragedy? They Call on EU to Support Far-Right Holocaust-Obfuscating ‘Prague Platform’", Defending History, July 28 2022.

https://defendinghistory.com/leaders-of-estonia-latvia-lithuania-poland-romania-abuse-ukraine-trage-call-on-eu-to-support-the-far-right-holocaust-obfuscating-prague-platform/110988

 

We don't even have to rely on leftists or socialists to understand why there is a concern over how erasing history could lead to disastrous results. Yes, Ukraine has every right to defend itself and expel Russian invaders from its borders, but American assistance in said war also means America has a duty to understand who it is arming and ensuring that, once Russia is forced back into its borders, billions worth of weaponry and political aid doesn't create a sinkhole of despair for religious and ethnic minorities in the country.

 

This has been a concern of American politicians and the US government from years:

04/26/18 - Times of Israel: "Congress members call out Ukraine government for glorifying Nazis"
https://www.timesofisrael.com/congress-members-call-out-ukraine-government-for-glorifying-nazis/

 

06/14/18 - Radio Free Europe: "Ukrainian Militia Behind Brutal Romany Attacks Getting State Funds"
https://www.rferl.org/a/ukrainian-militia-behind-brutal-romany-attacks-getting-state-funds/29290844.html

 

02/03/19 - RadioFreeEurope: "'Banderite' Rebrand: Ukrainian Police Declare Admiration For Nazi Collaborator'
https://www.rferl.org/a/banderite-rebrand-ukrainian-police-declare-admiration-for-nazi-collaborators-to-make-a-point/29764110.html

 

I understand why those from countries whose nationalistic cultures are being examined - let alone when those countries are in the middle of being invaded by an even more nationalist force - are not going to be responsive to historical discussions about their country's history at large, but such doesn't erase the presence or need to prevent history from being obfuscated and horrors from being erased as new narratives form.

 

Let alone the NYT article is, again, a defense of these symbols, and the thread itself not a discussion of the credibility or lack of credibility of their observation, but the media reaction at large.

 

Even FAIR has gone on to write about the piece: NYT on Ukraine’s Nazi Imagery: It’s ‘Complicated’

 

Edited June 13, 2023 by Communion

[ZIVERT]

"Country in Europe that spent most of its history occupied by the originators of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion and was also occupied by Nazi Germany in WWII has a complicated history with anti-Semitism" thank you brain wave for the insightful commentary. Very interesting how certain users pick and choose when to care about anti-Semitism. It's almost like there's an agenda at play here.

 

[WBTlove]

NO COUNTRY DESERVES TO BE ATTACKED LIKE THAT FOR NOTHING.

 

But honey, I was already over Ukraine when they tried to put African people in the back of the buses/trains when Russia attacked.

 

& then the Ukrainians in London complaining that there’s too many black people so they don’t feel safe. 

 

& never forget that when Syria was being destroyed, Ukraine accepted a grand total of: 2 Syrian refugees.

 

I wish Ukraine good luck but the gaslighting we’ve got about this utopian Ukraine for the past 2 years need to stop.

Edited June 13, 2023 by WBTlove