news Maryland: Muslim-led coalition protest against LGBTQ-inclusive curriculum in schools

[Delirious]

6 minutes ago, Starboys23 said:

Id argue that sexuality and gender dysphoria could also be choices. One day i have sex with a man and the next day a woman. I grow my hair long and put on makeup and the next i shave my head and drink a protein shake. Its all semantics.

 

5 minutes ago, Starboys23 said:

*you dont have to be one thing forever just because it may feel right in a certain moment.

What's next you're gonna say race is a choice as well? Just stop it. Your argument reeks of entitlement, right wing agenda and is piss poor. You seriously think a gay person made the choice to be gay despite the fact that they would get discriminated endlessly for it or even KILLED for it?

 

Think before you speak in such a priviledged position.

 

And also, just because you're only attracted to men, it doesn't mean you can't have sex with other genders??? Your sexuality doesn't change.

Edited June 9, 2023 by Delirious

[ZIVERT]

1 hour ago, Pendulum said:

Just a correction, what are the European countries with the highest Muslim (majority even) population? From which part of Europe do indigenous Muslim Europeans come? Answer: Central and Eastern Europe. This is false information you're spouting. 

 

 

How silly of you to correct them! Clearly someone from New Jersey, the bastion of religious diversity, knows much more about Islam and religious tolerance than countries like Albania, Kosovo, Bosnia & Herzegovina, and other countries formerly part of the Ottoman Empire. Crimea, Tatarstan, Chechnya, Dagestan? Please! These Eastern European barbarians don’t know sh*t! Thank you New Jersey  

[Starboys23]

1 minute ago, Delirious said:

 

What's next you're gonna say race is a choice as well? Just stop it. Your argument reeks of entitlement, right wing agenda and is piss poor. You seriously think a gay person made the choice to be gay despite the fact that they would get discriminated endlessly for it or even KILLED for it?

 

Think before you speak in just a priviledged position.

 

And also, just because you're only attracted to men, it doesn't mean you can't have sex with other genders??? Your sexuality doesn't change.

Perhaps they were groomed into thinking they were gay like i was *just saying*

[Delirious]

8 minutes ago, Starboys23 said:

Perhaps they were groomed into thinking they were gay like i was *just saying*

Yea like all the straight people who were groomed into thinking they were straight!

[Headlock]

40 minutes ago, Starboys23 said:

^That being said I have no issue with the LGB of it all but the TQIA+ and gender theory should be left out of curriculums and childrens heads. I grew up with long hair and looked like a girl pre-puberty and im so thankful I never had gender affirming healthcare or access because now that im through with puberty im incredibly grateful to be a man and to not have messed my body up with chemicals or surgery. Kids should be playing with crayons and chalk not themselves.

Gender dysphoria is not whether you have long hair or not  

It is clear you are trolling because this is such a stupid and insipid take on so many levels, as if they are handing out “gender affirming care” to any child. You are pushing the exact propaganda transphobes use, and honestly it’s clear that you fall into this category as well.

[Sannie]

39 minutes ago, Starboys23 said:

^That being said I have no issue with the LGB of it all but the TQIA+ and gender theory should be left out of curriculums and childrens heads. I grew up with long hair and looked like a girl pre-puberty and im so thankful I never had gender affirming healthcare or access because now that im through with puberty im incredibly grateful to be a man and to not have messed my body up with chemicals or surgery. Kids should be playing with crayons and chalk not themselves.

Separating the T from the LGBT Community is a disgusting right-wing tactic and narrative that aims to "other" a group of people who have fought alongside gays and lesbians for decades. Trans people deserve to be included and taken seriously.

 

Gender theory is not being taught to kids. Again, another right-wing narrative that has no basis in reality. Do you people have children? I have young nephews and I participate in their school activities. Zero gender theory. You guys should be angrier about common core math because that **** is what is ******* up our kids.

 

Additionally, kids are not stupid. Kids know who they are and the constant desire to remove their autonomy is gross. Many trans people recall knowing they were different at a very young age. Forcing kids to identify with the gender they were assigned at birth until puberty is cruel punishment. Allowing trans kids to take puberty blockers (which are safe) is a great way to let them "wait until they are 18" so they can then make more drastic decision. Zero children are having sex changes. Puberty blockers have been used for decades on cisgender children. Please, just talk to a trans person for once in your life.

[Headlock]

37 minutes ago, Starboys23 said:

Id argue that sexuality and gender dysphoria could also be choices. One day i have sex with a man and the next day a woman. I grow my hair long and put on makeup and the next i shave my head and drink a protein shake. It’s all semantics.

Do men not have long hair? Do women not drink protein shakes or have shaved heads?  

 

Literally all of your comments sound like you have crawled out of a bunker from the year 1956 and have no concept regarding gender, sex, sexuality, gender roles, gender dysphoria, or anything related to gender affirming healthcare.

[Communion]

2 hours ago, Pendulum said:

From which part of Europe do indigenous Muslim Europeans come?

Why would countries with high indigenous Muslim populations or for which the country is wholly Muslim (Russia, Turkey, Georgia) be in a conversation about migrant Muslim populations? 

 

Though I thank you for bringing this up because it highlights the absurdity how there are indeed many indigenous Muslim communities within Europe that make this rhetoric of Muslims being some foreign force "invading" Europe so uncomfortable. 

 

When then placed on the backdrop of the refugee crisis, it's even worse that countries like Turkey go above and beyond while other do so little. 

[Pendulum]

11 minutes ago, Communion said:

Why would countries with high indigenous Muslim populations or for which the country is wholly Muslim (Russia, Turkey, Georgia) be in a conversation about migrant Muslim populations? 

 

Though I thank you for bringing this up because it highlights the absurdity how there are indeed many indigenous Muslim communities within Europe that make this rhetoric of Muslims being some foreign force "invading" Europe so uncomfortable. 

 

When then placed on the backdrop of the refugee crisis, it's even worse that countries like Turkey go above and beyond while other do so little. 

You never specified  And you're also wrong about Eastern Europe not having any migrant Muslim populations. Have a look at the Balkans and Turkey.

 

And if you think that Turkey is welcoming to, let's say, Syrian or Iraqi refugees, you're wrong. Turkish people have an immense anti-Arab sentiment. 

 

 

[ALBAVEASP]

Religions are so exhausting, augh.

 

Why they don’t just live their own religious lives, and stop bothering other people on how they live their own.

[Communion]

1 hour ago, ZIVERT said:

How silly of you to correct them! Clearly someone from New Jersey, the bastion of religious diversity, knows much more about Islam and religious tolerance than countries like Albania, Kosovo, Bosnia & Herzegovina, and other countries formerly part of the Ottoman Empire. Crimea, Tatarstan, Chechnya, Dagestan? Please! These Eastern European barbarians don’t know sh*t! Thank you New Jersey  

Census Data as of 2023

% of population reported as Muslim:

Belarus - 0%

Croatia - 1.5%

Czechia - 0%

Estonia - 0%

Hungary - 0%

Latvia - 0%

Lithuania - 0%

Poland - 0%

Romania - 0%

Slovakia - 0%

Ukraine - 1.7%

 

And that's just those under 2%- there's many more whose census falls between 2%-3%

 

(The original post suggesting that a US state having a Muslim population of just 3% means that people in that state "don't actually know what's it's like to with Muslims").

 

The nations mentioned above literally represent over 100 million Europeans. 

 

The rhetoric that a hatred of Muslims is a "direct result of living with that culture" is nonsense because we see neo-nazism take root in countries like Poland and Hungary despite little to no foreign immigration or Muslim population. 

 

To defend ultranationalist rhetoric that portrays all Muslims as invading barbarians as the people making the argument I'm referencing - not you - is the issue. 

 

The idea that there is some unique European experience of ~combating Islamic barbarism from the East~ that justifies nativist, anti-immigrant sentiment and that North Americans "tolerate Muslims because they don't have to live with them" (again, the argument I was originally responding to - not one you've made) is obscene. 

 

And made even more obscene when remembering there have been Muslims within Europe for hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years! 

[Communion]

38 minutes ago, Pendulum said:

You never specified  And you're also wrong about Eastern Europe not having any migrant Muslim populations. Have a look at the Balkans and Turkey.

 

And if you think that Turkey is welcoming to, let's say, Syrian or Iraqi refugees, you're wrong. Turkish people have an immense anti-Arab sentiment. 

 

 

Sis you have to read the post I'm replying to too, not just mine. 

 

No one is denying that conservatism can exploit migration to make people hate certain groups of people (this is of course also how conservatism exploits religion).

 

I'm responding to the claim that European prejudice to Muslims at large is some natural result of migration (that Non-European """values""" are somehow inherently at odds with European """values""" and thus people from these two worlds will never organically mesh) and pointed out how countries with little migration still fall prey to pushing ultranationalist rhetoric.

 

I just didn't expect the user I was originally quoting to go "well yeah **** those Eastern Europeans, but I as a Western European am entitled to complain about those hordes of beasts invading my country!!!" 

Edited June 9, 2023 by Communion

[Pendulum]

11 minutes ago, Communion said:

I'm responding to the claim that European prejudice to Muslims at large is some natural result of migration (that Non-European """values""" are somehow inherently at odds with European """values""" and thus people from these two worlds will never organically mesh) and pointed out how countries with little migration still fall prey to pushing ultranationalist rhetoric.

 

This is true and the same attitudes can be applied to Eastern European migrants as well. But I don't think that migration is the direct cause, but more so a sense of superiority (after centuries of colonialism). Because Westerners would still look down upon ethnic groups that often constitute migrants, even when they remain in their own country. 

 

 

[arceus]

This is what the Left (and most part of EU) want 

[Mr. Blue_Shirt]

On 6/9/2023 at 1:43 AM, Scars said:

Contrary to what is being said by some in this thread, my experience is that ATRL collectively has a tendency to center European Muslims in literally any discourse in the Civics section. Never forget when some people thought it was appropriate to randomly obsess over muslim immigrants in Europe on a thread about LGBT rights in Uganda, a christian-majority african country. In fact, people are already bringing them up here. 

 

It's so frustrating that this board can't have mature discussions about homophobic sentiments among marginalized communities without resorting to inflammatory language and dog whistles. The way some of you scream "they should go back to where they came from if they don't like it here!" or "they should go to a country that allign with their ideals" as soon as y'all see a woman wearing a hijab, even without knowing their nationality or citizenship status, is truly a disgrace. 

 

Not only it's obviously rooted in xenophobia and the othering of ethnic minorities, but it ignores the fact that homophobia is also largely present in any other conservative demographic group in the West. It's hard to believe those talking points are "just about religion, not race", as some of you always claim, when those same talking points are nowhere to be seen in any thread related to white british TERFs, evengelical white americans, far-right europeans or any other white western-majority conservative group.

 

Back to the topic, it's truly sad to see the amount of targeted hate and pushbacks happening on pride month this year. Sending love to queer muslim americans.

THANK YOU

 

Honestly I just accept a long time ago that ATRL never treat conservatism the same way and it's definitely frustrating to me. Especially when their xenophobia play apart in the discussion, it makes the discourse 10x more annoying and unbearable

 

I just hope queer people who live in muslim majority countries can immigrate to safer western countries peacefully & don't have to deal with western queer people that want them to leave their country just because they look like arab, so they assume they are muslims and homophobic or having arab sounding name on their ID

[Weld_E]

That user should be banned from these topics. They deliberately derail such discussions in long unnecessary rants. They really have a talent for inflating one sentence into three paragraphs.

 

Meanwhile, queer people who grew up with the the religion and suffered under Muslim rulings in predominantly Muslim counties continue to be undermined and silenced by his messy tangents that eventually get the thread locked.

[Aethereal]

7 hours ago, WBTlove said:

I meant his parents/grandparents in that sentence.

 

They (his parents/grandparents) escaped communism only so they (Communion) can turn around and be a communist in the comfort of the USA decades later.

 

PS: I also call Communion “they” out of respect cause they are gender non-confirming. it confused everything tho. I can see why u were not sure who I was referring to. 😞 

How do you know all of this? I have known him since 2017 and never heard about this. 

Edited June 9, 2023 by Aristotle

[Machete]

Always funny seeing the most "liberal" liberals bend their knee to the most anti-progress religion of Islam 

[Communion]

1 hour ago, Weld_E said:

Meanwhile, queer people who grew up with the the religion and suffered under Muslim rulings in predominantly Muslim counties

You're discussing suburban Maryland, not Tehran. 

 

You've literally just derailed the thread by for some reason thinking people thousands of miles away are relevant to American citizens in Maryland. Every single post in here and the Belgiun thread that mentioned immigration would be off topic and would justify being warned. 

 

Some of you need to be honest thet you are claiming reverence for ex-Muslims within the Muslim world because they often co-sign or endorse your own negative views of Muslims. 

 

You seem to think their own personal greivances (many which are justified and I agree with) somehow validate conspiracies by non-Muslim conservatives in the Western world like the idea that you can radically change the course of progressivism through MILD migration.  You literally cannot import enough conservative Muslims into a European country to make it go from highly progressive to highly conservative. You're denying everyone agency. Many conservative Muslims don't  even want to live in the West and literally enjoy where they live. That's how marginal these conversations are that people are suggesting a few refugees who have been displaced from countries they wanted to stay in or kebab shops popping up in their neighborhood now "THREATEN THE WESTERN WAY OF LIFE". 

 

If you cared about queer people in conservative Muslim countries, you wouldn't be aligning with and platforming and giving credibility to powerful conservative movements in Christian countries under the guise of "standing up to Islam". 

 

So much alleged concern for queer people in the Muslim world and yet threads about things like neo-nazi wanting to ban head scarves in some place Norway somehow end up out-viewing threads about regimes like KSA indiscriminately bombing Yemen over 10-to-1. Shocking. 

Edited June 9, 2023 by Communion

[Delirious]

Thank God that user got banned. What crack were they on?

 

You won't be missed.

 

 

[RunUpDoneUp]

11 hours ago, Machete said:

Always funny seeing the most "liberal" liberals bend their knee to the most anti-progress religion of Islam 

Liberalism?

The secular movement that literally helped usher in minority rights is bending the knee to Islam?

Do you hear yourself?

 

And where are Muslims receiving special exemption to hate gay people? Do y'all exist in the real world? Liberals and the left are the only ones who oppose religious bigotry BUT we do it in a way that isn’t racist. The right are the only ones supporting homophobic muslims.

[JustHoran]

I'm so glad my BLUE STATE of Maryland will never let this happen 

[Sergi91]

It’s scary so see lots of TikTok videos of Muslim men sharing anti gay remarks and everyone in the comments agreeing with them. 

[Sannie]

On 6/9/2023 at 6:04 PM, Machete said:

Always funny seeing the most "liberal" liberals bend their knee to the most anti-progress religion of Islam 

Who is doing this, though? Every liberal I know is condemning this. Liberals are able to condemn bigotry from the Muslim community while also acknowledging not all Muslims are like this. We understand nuance.

 

1 hour ago, Sergi91 said:

It’s scary so see lots of TikTok videos of Muslim men sharing anti gay remarks and everyone in the comments agreeing with them. 

It can definitely be scary, but it is important to acknowledge that the anonymity social media gives people makes them feel emboldened to be the worst of the worst versions of themselves, and that in real life 10% of those people would say what they say online. The majority of people in the West support and/or do not have negative feelings towards the LGBT community, and most recent polling shows support for LGBT in the US at an all-time high. As that support grows, this vocal minority will get louder and louder. It happened in the past and it will happen in the future, but one thing is for sure and that is that bigots will always lose.

[Dialamba]

As a Muslim this is humiliating.