base talk How did R&B remain dominantly Black?

[brooklyndaddy]

6 minutes ago, WBTlove said:

I mean, how is that different from Chloe?

It’s not 

[Dr. Alexander]

15 minutes ago, Jude said:

Ariana tried but she's her RnB stuff is still labeled pop.

Ariana is the only white girl who has that appeal. She has the most Black listeners out of all the other white girls. 
 

It’s either her or her label that’s too scared to go all the way. I think it’s her label. She would have been dropped an 100% authentic R&B album, but her label always pushes the pop-influence to not alienate her fan base and pop appeal. 

[Antisocialites]

1 hour ago, vale9001 said:

cause in 2023 if a white person make that genre you call it appropriation. 

 

[lonnie]

13 minutes ago, WBTlove said:

Justin Timberlake 

 

Lots of Justin Bieber recent music.

Ariana Grande 

 

Bruno Mars & the Weekend are considered pop for some reason. I guess cause they don’t come from the African American tradition/culture.

I think, as others have mentioned, it has more to do with stricter terms of what's considered R&B. Ariana Grande, The Weeknd, Justin Bieber etc wouldn't be considered R&B because their music mostly incorporates elements and isn't really R&B. Just like Avril Lavigne and Kelly Clarkson music might not be and aren't considered rock. Hell, even African American artists like Whitney Houston are still not considered R&B due to a portion of her music being mostly pop.

[GoodGuyGoneGhetto]

9 minutes ago, WBTlove said:

Going pop killed Usher’s career. His r&b fan base ran away and never came back. He got a few quick radio hit but those lil white girls are not buying his albums.

 

Beyoncé released 1 pop album and even then she never released something as euro dance as: When Love Takes Over or Usher’s dance track. The closest was Sweat Dream which was still sung in a very r&b way.

 

Rihanna was never an r&b artist. She was always a pop star who a become more urban over time. But she does not come from r&b. 

Well, I wouldn’t say that “going Pop killed” Usher’s career. 
 

His last Hot 100 T10 was a dance song; “Scream”, which was also from the same album that had “Climax” - the biggest song of 2012 on the R&B and R&B Airplay YE charts. Some of his older, long-standing R&B fans may not have liked his deeper foray into dance music but it was respected. 
 

Unfortunately, the album was promoted poorly and he released the wrong songs post-“Scream”. 
 

“Hard II Love”, which was released 4 years later, was also poorly promoted and the music just wasn’t as good. Usher was also working with the wrong producers to bring him to a more modern audience too. 
 

Yes, I know Beyoncé has always been an R&B artist at her core; I also know that Rihanna was the opposite and moreso a Pop artist at her core. The difference is they both tread each genre successfully and we’re able to garner new fans in the process. Kelly Rowland just simply wasn’t good at marketing herself and her career suffered as a result. 
 

 

[Click Clack]

bc white ppl lack soul 

 

there’s a FEW exceptions (teena marie, adele, ariana) but yea

[WBTlove]

49 minutes ago, lonnie said:

I think, as others have mentioned, it has more to do with stricter terms of what's considered R&B. Ariana Grande, The Weeknd, Justin Bieber etc wouldn't be considered R&B because their music mostly incorporates elements and isn't really R&B. Just like Avril Lavigne and Kelly Clarkson music might not be and aren't considered rock. Hell, even African American artists like Whitney Houston are still not considered R&B due to a portion of her music being mostly pop.

I hear you for Arianna, JB & others but As a solo artist, Justin Timberlake discography is as 2000s r&b as it gets.

 

The weeknd has always been & is still an experimental r&b artist. He’s also the original r&b fboy. His mixtapes introduced a mood & topics that dominates r&b now.

 

Save his 1st album, Bruno Mars has consistently been as soul & r&b as it gets. 
 

They just happen to have mainstream appeal. Justin was coming from the biggest pop band, The Weeknd specifically said that he chose his record label because it was a pop label so they had strong relationships with pop radio. & Bruno Mars is just the most talented mofo in the game. Dance like Beyoncé, Sings like Mariah & writes like Taylor. 😊 

 

Edited June 7, 2023 by WBTlove

[FSXP]

3 hours ago, Virgos Groove said:

Because when white people do it, it gets labeled "pop".

and with that, we can end the discussion. Ariana, Justin Timberlake, Justin Bieber, Bruno Mars are all rooted in R&B music. Most of time they’re labeled pop. 

But if you’re wondering why it might seem like white singers get less support from R&B listener, it’s not that. Ariana, both Justins, and Bruno have a large R&B fanbase, but the common denominator is that R&B listeners are more impressed with soaring vocals and impressive runs, riffs, and harmonies. How many white singers can fit into that? Not many. 

 

The funny thing is Rihanna is lumped into R&B categorizes and she’s more dance-pop/pop than all of those artists and she’s not very R&B. She’s always been more hip hop than R&B. 

Edited June 7, 2023 by FSXP

[CBC]

kpop has a lot of rnb imo

[Sylpher]

3 hours ago, GoodGuyGoneGhetto said:

If Taylor Swift decided to suddenly veer toward R&B music, it wouldn’t be authentic and she’d execute it poorly.

Taylor did do R&B with Lavender Haze... which was successful (which means it was effective).

[Sylpher]

2 hours ago, Jude said:

Ariana tried but she's her RnB stuff is still labeled pop.

Not just pop, but R&B too. We should honestly just ignore the pop label most of the time. It just means released by a popular artist and does not indicate instrumentation or lyrical subject matter.

[Sylpher]

1 hour ago, FSXP said:

and with that, we can end the discussion. Ariana, Justin Timberlake, Justin Bieber, Bruno Mars are all rooted in R&B music. Most of time they’re labeled pop. 

Because they're popular...? Very very few artists do solely one genre... Even those that do predominately R&B might also do Soul, gospel or Hip-hop/ rap or synth.

[Sylpher]

2 hours ago, lonnie said:

I think, as others have mentioned, it has more to do with stricter terms of what's considered R&B. Ariana Grande, The Weeknd, Justin Bieber etc wouldn't be considered R&B because their music mostly incorporates elements and isn't really R&B. Just like Avril Lavigne and Kelly Clarkson music might not be and aren't considered rock. Hell, even African American artists like Whitney Houston are still not considered R&B due to a portion of her music being mostly pop.

Then what exactly are "pop elements?"

[Katamari]

1 hour ago, Click Clack said:

bc white ppl lack soul 

 

there’s a FEW exceptions (teena marie, adele, ariana) but yea

I thought this said a soul omg  

ot: don’t forget simply red! Seems most of the white ppl who do r&b well are British blue eyed soul acts 

[lonnie]

7 minutes ago, Sylpher said:

Then what exactly are "pop elements?"

A mix of other genres, mostly dance. Traditional R&B as is known doesn't have these elements, mostly drawing from its blues and soul origins.

 

This for instance:

 

 

Is different from this:

 

 

With the latter obviously having a "poppier" sound to appeal to a broader audience

 

Or this:

 

 

From this:

 

 

R&B just as it is hardly gets the level of success that "crossover" hits do. 

[lonnie]

Speaking of white artists that do R&B. She's by far my fave white artist that does it:

 

 

Will never forget the first time I heard her

 

[Taylor fanboy]

Marketing.

[FSXP]

50 minutes ago, Sylpher said:

Because they're popular...? Very very few artists do solely one genre... Even those that do predominately R&B might also do Soul, gospel or Hip-hop/ rap or synth.

It’s not the fact that artists aren’t solely one genre. It’s simply easier for them to escape the resistance of forced categorization. All of them have R&B producers and R&B writers. All of them have full R&B albums at one point or pop with heavy R&B influence. R&B is very influential to pop and hip hop.

 

BUT since they’re not black, they don’t have to fight to be pop or fight to not be R&B. It’s a catch-all genre for black singers at this point. Beyoncé, The Weeknd, SZA, and Rihanna are all arguably more experimental and genre crossing than their white counterparts yet the industry will slap the R&B label on it and move on. 

 

the OP wants to know why R&B is still predominantly black and it’s cause white singers influenced or singing R&B music will be put in pop and white consumers will consider it a different flavor to the usual dance-pop offerings. They don’t have to commit as much.

[Polgg48]

idk but mac ayres need to blow up soon, it's been a while since robin thicke dominance cute urban audience and creative bankrupt among the genre unless you are sza or chris brown who always sale a lot.

[dabunique]

6 hours ago, GoodGuyGoneGhetto said:

To be honest…

 

There has only been a handful of White artists that have been able to execute Contemporary R&B music well since the genres inception ie. Average White Band, Hall & Oates, Teena Marie, George Michael, Lisa Stansfield, Robin Thicke, Christina Aguilera, Jojo, Ariana Grande etc. 

 

Aside from that, there’s also a difference between 1) white acts randomly partaking in the genre and 2) those of whom are actually committed to it and make it a part of their overall artistry, thus being respected for it. 
 

You need to have a “voice”, first and foremost, as well as a certain level of natural charisma and stylistic appeal to do the genre justice. Even the Black R&B singers who may not have the biggest or most powerful voice (SZA, Jhene Aiko) are still able to bring forward a lot of ‘cool’ that still makes them and the genre interesting. 
 

If Taylor Swift decided to suddenly veer toward R&B music, it wouldn’t be authentic and she’d execute it poorly. That said, if Willow Smith decided to do that today it also wouldn’t be authentic as it’s not her style. The difference is that the music industry and society are obsessed with labels so if Willow Smith did do it, as a Black woman, it wouldn’t be “surprising” to many. Overall, the industry has been labelling R&B a “Black genre” for decades, for better or worst. @lonnie
 

don' forget KC and The Sunshine Band & Jon B

[monologueNacafe]

7 hours ago, Virgos Groove said:

Because when white people do it, it gets labeled "pop".

I think this is the main reason (although there's more to it).

 

 

[Polgg48]

Quote

Because when white people do it, it gets labeled "pop".

from time to time, they predominately need validation from renowned known black producers/peers in the business to smooth the image out ( preventing white-washed, being respectful towards the genre ) so black audience can support them, it's always like that with ariana/the weeknd/2 chainz/missy/pharrell or JT with timberland or jojo/pj morton. not the bad thing by all means, all races can enjoy music in these conditions but mostly because r&b is not hype/famous genre for market in general atm. ariana will comeback and smash on her r&b and we know it.

 

 

edit: bruno mars too, he never got issue plus anderson paak can peak new high of his commercial career too

 

 

Edited June 7, 2023 by Polgg48

[monologueNacafe]

Side note: "Pop" isn't really as much of a "genre" as it is a label/classification (which is often racially-based, as others have mentioned). At it's core, it's literally what's "popular." Sure, there are some stylistic qualities or characteristics that make up a pop song (catchy lyrics, melodies), but it isn't a distinct genre like Rock, R&B, or Hip Hop/Rap. It takes on the characteristics of multiple "pure" genres, depending on what's mainstream at any particular moment. 

[Soda Pop Queen]

Some of you are bringing up good points but I think what it boils down to is that R&B (and Soul) has a direct line from black Gospel music, which has heavy influence from the Negro spirituals. The imitators, no matter how good or passable few of them are deemed, don't have any connection to the roots. I look at Rhythm & Blues like the rhythm part comes from ancestral joy and the blues part comes from ancestral pain.

Edited June 7, 2023 by Soda Pop Queen

[Kimbra]

Vocals are a main requirement. Look at the winners in the rnb categories- VOCAISTS. No matter how much success you see the powers at be in the rnb sphere will always hold vocals in high regard.