celeb news Roger Waters dresses as Nazi officer in Berlin concert, police launches investigation

[The Next Day]

22 minutes ago, Dill Green said:

But, it is also a semi-glorification of white supremacist iconography. There are alternatives to criticizing war that do NOT involve going on stage in a Nazi uniform.

I mean, this opens up the long discussed debate about whether context matters. Sure, to anyone who isn't familiar with The Wall, this must look terrifying. If you know that this song and performance is about showing a troubled man at his absolute lowest, mentally and physically, I don't think you would see it as a glorification of that situation. The role he is performing is that of a sick man, not someone that is presented as a role model, quite the contrary. 

And also, how are you supposed to criticize dictatorships if you can't reference certain imagery? How are people supposed to know what you're talking about? 

 

22 minutes ago, Dill Green said:

This tangentially relates to the conversation around Civil War (white supremacist) iconography and the idea that those entities can be preserved, studied, etc. without statues, building names, etc. 

No it doesn't. A Roger Waters concert shouldn't have to be held to the same standard as things that are paid by tax money. Roger Waters can do what he is legally allowed to do as long as he is paying for the arena. If that concert was sponsored by the government, this would be very different. What people talk about at private events is their responsibility as long as it doesn't risks the safety of society cause they pay for their event. But a statue of a glorified war criminal expresses the opinion of a whole state, paid for by people who didn't want the statue.

Edited May 26, 2023 by The Next Day

[Katy V.!]

Shocking to see someone who consistently supports all kind of dictators and crimes against humanity pulling these stunts. SHOCKING.

[Dill Green]

5 minutes ago, The Next Day said:

I mean, this opens up the long discussed debate about whether context matters. Sure, to anyone who isn't familiar with The Wall, this must look terrifying. If you know that this song and performance is about showing a troubled man at his absolute lowest, mentally and physically, I don't think you would see it as a glorification of that situation. The role he is performing is that of a sick man, not someone that is presented as a role model, quite the contrary. 

And also, how are you supposed to criticize dictatorships if you can't reference certain imagery? How are people supposed to know what you're talking about? 

Context matters, but context does not always matter. What's driven to the surface here is whether certain actions are necessary/moral. And whether those actions are truly adding something new to society or pushing society forward. I'd argue that Roger donning a Nazi uniform isn't actually adding anything to society or pushing society forward. In this case, specifically b/c of the horrific iconography involved, context is less important b/c the action doesn't rise to the level of being necessary. And equally problematic is Roger brandishing a weapon on stage (that's certainly unnecessary). It's the same way a non-black person doing black face to pay tribute to a black artist is problematic (in this case, the context of them paying tribute doesn't matter, b/c the action is unnecessary). Roger could have very well made more substantive/historical references photographically/videographically without donning a Nazi uniform and brandishing a weapon.    

5 minutes ago, The Next Day said:

No it doesn't. A Roger Waters concert shouldn't have to be held to the same standard as things that are paid by tax money. Roger Waters can do what he is legally allowed to do as long as he is paying for the arena. If that concert was sponsored by the government, this would be very different. What people talk about at private events is their responsibility as long as it doesn't risks the safety of society cause they pay for their event. But a statue of a glorified war criminal expresses the opinion of a whole state, paid for by people who didn't want the statue.

The legality of Roger's actions are not in question - it's the necessity and morality. Legally, a 50 year old man can marry and impregnate a 16/17 year old girl in certain US states, but that does not make it necessary or moral. 

[PennywiseTheClown]

He's been doing this for decades now, it's an iconic part of The Wall. Also an iconic scene from the film in the 80s. He's playing a caricature/parody, y'all know that right?  The song he performs during this segment is In The Flesh. There's a line in the song that goes like "Are there any queers in the theater tonight? Get 'em up against the wall." And it goes on targeting other minorities. The whole point is to show how dangerous, bizarre and unhinged white supremacist fascists are

 

Not to mention he did this PRECISE act with the same outfit and gun EIGHT times already in Germany the past decade and suddenly now they're so shocked that action has to be being taken? Fake *ss controversy

[VicHugo]

He’s been doing this for 40 years. Real artists really can’t really make art anymore, it’s over. People are middlebrow and dumb, it’s so sad. 

Edited May 26, 2023 by VicHugo

[Dill Green]

1 minute ago, PennywiseTheClown said:

He's been doing this for decades now, it's an iconic part of The Wall. Also an iconic scene from the film in the 80s. He's playing a caricature/parody, y'all know that right?  The song he performs during this segment is In The Flesh. There's a line in the song that goes like "Are there any queers in the theater tonight? Get 'em up against the wall." And it goes on targeting other minorities. The whole point is to show how dangerous, bizarre and unhinged white supremacist fascists are

 

Not to mention he did this PRECISE act with the same outfit and gun EIGHT times already in Germany the past decade and suddenly now they're so shocked that action has to be being taken? Fake *ss controversy

The world was not in need of a Nazi re-enactment in the 80s or now - it's not necessary and does not add anything new or push society forward. It was cheap controversy then and it remains that today. Anti-racist efforts require more than just controversial re-enactments - it requires action w/ tangible results. What has Pink Floyd's Nazi re-enactment done to alter the trajectory of white supremacy and racism for the lives of real people? 

[Communion]

2 hours ago, Dill Green said:

Hiding behind art as context does NOT absolve the semi-glorification of white supremacist iconography. 

There is no glorification and the OP is a known troll who argues anyone who is against Israel is an antisemite.

 

The courts of Germany literally already signed off on Roger's show and praised it as an artistic critique warning of the dangers of fascism -

https://twitter.com/Behram_Makujina/status/1661880817180606464?s=20

 

 

[VicHugo]

2 hours ago, Katamari said:

hasn't he toured this album before in Germany with no issue?

 

i mean i know Germany don't play that but still 

 

Yes. He did this exact same performance there at least 100 times now, since 1989, the day after the Berlin fell. Liberals and zionist are coming hard now for every left wing person in the planet. 

[Dolev]

trash

[Communion]

 

Waters' concert is, by legal definition as seen by the high courts of Germany, not a glorification of Nazism. 

 

Putting Anne Frank's name on a display board that lists her amongst other heroes is not "insulting" her image, even if you take offense to Waters also including Shireen Abu Akleh next to her as a victim of fascism. I wonder why the OP left off that part of the alleged criticism- that those who are attacking Waters are explicitly rejecting the notion that Shireen can be considered a victim of fascism the way others can. Apparently it is "insulting Anne Frank" to honor a Palestinian journalist murdered by a racist goverment. 

 

Let's force those who claim to take offense to actually articulate why they feel the murder of Shireen was justified and not an act of racial supremacy against a widely known Palestine, remembering that both American and British independent forensics groups confirmed that there's clear consensus that Shireen was deliberately shot and her death is objectively a murder. 

Edited May 26, 2023 by Communion

[Alongoria13]

I am shocked at the amount of people who fail to see beyond what's superficial? The Trump era of education truly did a number on people ch

[Johnny Jacobs]

Users here defending him are just as trash as he is.

 

I swear sometimes i think half of atrl users are Jefree star wannabes. 

Edited May 26, 2023 by Johnny Jacobs

[Johnny Jacobs]

9 minutes ago, Communion said:

 

Waters' concert is, by legal definition as seen by the high courts of Germany, not a glorification of Nazism. 

 

Putting Anne Frank's name on a display board that lists her amongst other heroes is not "insulting" her image, even if you take offense to Waters also including Shireen Abu Akleh next to her as a victim of fascism. I wonder why the OP left off that part of the alleged criticism- that those who are attacking Waters are explicitly rejecting the notion that Shireen can be considered a victim of fascism the way others can. Apparently it is "insulting Anne Frank" to honor a Palestinian journalist murdered by a racist goverment. 

 

Let's force those who claim to take offense to actually articulate why they feel the murder of Shireen was justified and not an act of racial supremacy against a widely known Palestine, remembering that both American and British independent forensics groups confirmed that there's clear consensus that Shireen was deliberately shot and her death is objectively a murder. 

Of course you're in to defend him. 

 

People like you are beyond reason 

[k.money]

Art is fine until it crosses a line.

Like this. The line has been crossed. 

 

This is gross.

[AvadaKedavra]

Absolutely disgusting Jail him for some time 

[Dill Green]

23 minutes ago, Communion said:

There is no glorification and the OP is a known troll who argues anyone who is against Israel is an antisemite.

 

The courts of Germany literally already signed off on Roger's show and praised it as an artistic critique warning of the dangers of fascism -

https://twitter.com/Behram_Makujina/status/1661880817180606464?s=20

 

 

I'll reiterate my previous commentary: 

The world was not in need of a Nazi re-enactment in the 80s or now - it's not necessary and does not add anything new or push society forward. It was cheap controversy then and it remains that today. Anti-racist efforts require more than just controversial re-enactments - it requires action w/ tangible results. What has Pink Floyd's Nazi re-enactment done to alter the trajectory of white supremacy and racism for the lives of real people? 

 

The legality of Roger's actions are not in question - it's the necessity and morality. 

 

[Communion]

Just now, Johnny Jacobs said:

Of course you're in to defend him. 

 

People like you are beyond reason 

The vast majority of people who are mad at Waters are white supremacists and Euronationalists who hate Waters for his criticisms of NATO's past war-profiteering. Any good faith criticism about any tone deaf remarks he's made in the past with regards to Russia lose credibility when the Europeans raging at him are by proxy aligning with those who defend the murder of people like Shireen because they've found an alliance of convenience with ethnonationalists. 

 

If you somehow fall into either of those groups, that's on you, but defending the white supremacy of colonial states like America and Israel under the guise of caring about antisemitism has not worked, will not work, and will lead to both these nations becoming politically and morally defunct. You just have to see opinion polls about support for Palestine over apartheid Israel to known that fascism never wins in the end. 

 

And I'm certainly not going to think there's a good faith concern for racism afoot when there are users with posting histories that include insulting black celebrities as "apes" and "primates" back in 2014 who are then the same users asking us to view Waters as an aboherent antisemite for grouping together Anne Frank with *checks notes* George Floyd and Breonna Taylor:

 

 

[Johnny Jacobs]

4 minutes ago, Communion said:

The vast majority of people who are mad at Waters are white supremacists and Euronationalists who hate Waters for his criticisms of NATO's past war-profiteering. Any good faith criticism about any tone deaf remarks he's made in the past with regards to Russia lose credibility when the Europeans raging at him are by proxy aligning with those who defend the murder of people like Shireen because they've found an alliance of convenience with ethnonationalists. 

 

If you somehow fall into either of those groups, that's on you, but defending the white supremacy of colonial states like America and Israel under the guise of caring about antisemitism has not worked, will not work, and will lead to both these nations becoming politically and morally defunct. You just have to see opinion polls about support for Palestine over apartheid Israel to known that fascism never wins in the end. 

 

And I'm certainly not going to think there's a good faith concern for racism afoot when there are users with posting histories that include insulting black celebrities as "apes" and "primates" back in 2014 who are then the same users asking us to view Waters as an aboherent antisemite for grouping together Anne Frank with *checks notes* George Floyd and Breonna Taylor:

 

 

If u think I'll read it, you're mistaken. 

 

It's not the first time i see you giving excuses and showijg support for vile people and disgusting action like these. 

[Communion]

17 minutes ago, Johnny Jacobs said:

If u think I'll read it, you're mistaken. 

Shireen Abu Akleh did not deserve to be murdered no matter how much you or anyone else may think so. She deserved to live. Any argument that recognizing her as a victim of fascism is antisemitic argues that she deserved to die. She did not. 

 

NATO supporters who hate Waters can't even accuse him of being a """tankie""" because in the same section are named women killed by the Iranian government and Putin in another part of the show is called out as a fascist taking over the West alongside Trump, Le Pen, Orban,, Farage and more. 

Edited May 26, 2023 by Communion

[xDiamondx]

Dressing as a Nazi... shocking. He deserves the punishment of being one.  

 

ZERO TOLERANCE FOR NAZIS. ZERO. **** Nazis.

[Communion]

33 minutes ago, Dill Green said:

I'll reiterate my previous commentary: 

The world was not in need of a Nazi re-enactment in the 80s or now -l

Arguing that Waters' criticisms of fascism are not meaningful new or lack tact is not the same as accusing Waters of doing in fact the literal opposite and celebrating fascism. If you're upset the conversation has shifted away from whether the The Wall is a timely and effective criticism of fascism*, you should redirect these criticisms ti those defending Israel from Waters' criticisms of apartheid and usurping the conversation to meet their own end goal of conflating Waters' criticisms of a government like Israel with Jewish people at large. 

 

*- Many would argue that Waters' criticisms and show drawing such violent reactions from Western nationalists for simply grouping fascist governments like America and Israel with fascist governments like Russia and Iran proves the timeliness and relevance of the show in its expanding criticisms. 

 

If this is about a personal rejection of his view that America and Israel are just as fascist as Russia, then let's call it what is actually is - a political disagreement. But that of course requires a kind of honesty that the nationalists criticizing Waters do not have. 

[Jjang]

1 hour ago, Communion said:

There is no glorification and the OP is a known troll who argues anyone who is against Israel is an antisemite.

 

The courts of Germany literally already signed off on Roger's show and praised it as an artistic critique warning of the dangers of fascism -

https://twitter.com/Behram_Makujina/status/1661880817180606464?s=20

 

 

 

1 hour ago, PennywiseTheClown said:

He's been doing this for decades now, it's an iconic part of The Wall. Also an iconic scene from the film in the 80s. He's playing a caricature/parody, y'all know that right?  The song he performs during this segment is In The Flesh. There's a line in the song that goes like "Are there any queers in the theater tonight? Get 'em up against the wall." And it goes on targeting other minorities. The whole point is to show how dangerous, bizarre and unhinged white supremacist fascists are

 

Not to mention he did this PRECISE act with the same outfit and gun EIGHT times already in Germany the past decade and suddenly now they're so shocked that action has to be being taken? Fake *ss controversy

basically

[Dill Green]

1 hour ago, Communion said:

Arguing that Waters' criticisms of fascism are not meaningful new or lack tact is not the same as accusing Waters of doing in fact the literal opposite and celebrating fascism. If you're upset the conversation has shifted away from whether the The Wall is a timely and effective criticism of fascism*, you should redirect these criticisms ti those defending Israel from Waters' criticisms of apartheid and usurping the conversation to meet their own end goal of conflating Waters' criticisms of a government like Israel with Jewish people at large. 

 

*- Many would argue that Waters' criticisms and show drawing such violent reactions from Western nationalists for simply grouping fascist governments like America and Israel with fascist governments like Russia and Iran proves the timeliness and relevance of the show in its expanding criticisms. 

 

If this is about a personal rejection of his view that America and Israel are just as fascist as Russia, then let's call it what is actually is - a political disagreement. But that of course requires a kind of honesty that the nationalists criticizing Waters do not have. 

I think my larger point is: what is Roger's show actually doing (other than causing mild controversy)? If all this show leads to is people from different political perspectives talking past one another - while racism and white supremacy continues to flourish... I think other ways of fighting against racism aught to be pursued. That's not to say we can't have multiple avenues of action, but I question whether this show has a tangible impact. And I'm passionate about this b/c too often society has these tough conversations - and then people celebrate the fact that tough conversations have been had, but then nothing actually changes to chip away at racism and white supremacy (and real people continue to suffer). 

[Karla Cabello]

hes so annoying 

[Elusive Chanteuse]

Don't his own bandmates think he's an anti-Semite?