news Update: Centrist Dems to join Senate GOP to end debt pause (+retroactive interest)

[Communion]

https://twitter.com/StrikeDebt/status/1661569807819370497

 

https://twitter.com/StrikeDebt/status/1661585801442885635

 

https://twitter.com/RepJamesClyburn/status/1661480584378720256

Edited May 31, 2023 by Communion

[Elusive Chanteuse]

I hope there is a viable progressive third party some day because…. I

[onapearl]

Well that's hideous. It's one thing to restart payments, but it's another to charge people back interest on debt they were mislead into believing they didn't have to pay back into at all. I'm sure a lot of people would have been taking advantage of that long, interest-free period to make their overall debt smaller and thus the interest burden smaller if they hadn't been told their whole debt was going to be forgiven. 

 

The PPP loan situation makes it even more hideous, because the vast majority of people who got those had absolutely no need for them, didn't use them for what they were intended for, and now aren't expected to pay any of that back. 

 

Like, I may have to actually hit the streets and cause problems if this goes through.

[stjosephprey4us]

Jail.

[Headlock]

Pure evil, these people revel in the suffering of others.

[shinyshimmery]

Joe Biden should have never said anything about that student debt stuff. Let people pay what they owe!!! it was nice to cut a break during covid but now the whole thing is such a mess. I hate how entitled some of these ppl with student debt have become, but I also know good ones that probably do deserve a break. But it should be treated like everything else in the world, if you owe it.. pay it. Maybe cut the debt in half… I agree that republicans take wayyyy too much and dont give anything back. The ppp loans were another set of disasters where ppl capitalized from them without the need. 

Edited May 25, 2023 by shinyshimmery

[ClashAndBurn]

20 minutes ago, shinyshimmery said:

Joe Biden should have never said anything about that student debt stuff. Let people pay what they owe!!! it was nice to cut a break during covid but now the whole thing is such a mess. I hate how entitled some of these ppl with student debt have become, but I also know good ones that probably do deserve a break. But it should be treated like everything else in the world, if you owe it.. pay it. Maybe cut the debt in half… I agree that republicans take wayyyy too much and dont give anything back. The ppp loans were another set of disasters where ppl capitalized from them without the need. 

You have a lot of nerve calling some of the most down-trodden people in the entire country "entitled"  

 

When the payments get turned back on, a lot of people are going to be made homeless, and it will be Joe Biden's fault.

[shinyshimmery]

1 minute ago, ClashAndBurn said:

You have a lot of nerve calling some of the most down-trodden people in the entire country "entitled"  

 

When the payments get turned back on, a lot of people are going to be made homeless, and it will be Joe Biden's fault.

The world operates on money, this ain't nothing new. If you borrowed the money, pay it back. It IS entitlement to want to get out of something as serious as a loan repayment bc some politicians promised something verbally. In hindsight, everyone knew this would have been another broken promise from our leaders. 

[ClashAndBurn]

5 minutes ago, shinyshimmery said:

The world operates on money, this ain't nothing new. If you borrowed the money, pay it back. It IS entitlement to want to get out of something as serious as a loan repayment bc some politicians promised something verbally. In hindsight, everyone knew this would have been another broken promise from our leaders. 

If a politician makes a promise, it is their obligation to see it through. If they don't, they shouldn't complain when people don't turn out for them and their joke of a political party.

[shinyshimmery]

1 minute ago, ClashAndBurn said:

If a politician makes a promise, it is their obligation to see it through. If they don't, they shouldn't complain when people don't turn out for them and their joke of a political party.

 

thats literally what presidential runs are.. nothing but a bunch of promises and little to no action when they actually win. 

[ClashAndBurn]

5 minutes ago, shinyshimmery said:

 

thats literally what presidential runs are.. nothing but a bunch of promises and little to no action when they actually win. 

Fine then! He shouldn't be surprised when voters ditch him for being a liar, and you shouldn't be surprised that his party collapses due to not living up to his stated commitment.

 

People like Joe Biden are genuinely evil people. You shouldn't make excuses for them.

Edited May 25, 2023 by ClashAndBurn

[Cyanide]

That user’s parents probably paid for their college 

 

“get money, duh!!!!11” As if we weren’t taught our whole lives that we would be failures if we didn’t go to college. As if most high paying jobs don’t require some sort of degree. As if the 1% hasn’t completely gouged the financial resources of the masses. As if colleges aren’t getting more expensive every year. 
 

people are like 17 when they agree to take out those loans lol it’s a predatory scheme  

[shinyshimmery]

2 hours ago, Cyanide said:

That user’s parents probably paid for their college 

 

“get money, duh!!!!11” As if we weren’t taught our whole lives that we would be failures if we didn’t go to college. As if most high paying jobs don’t require some sort of degree. As if the 1% hasn’t completely gouged the financial resources of the masses. As if colleges aren’t getting more expensive every year. 
 

people are like 17 when they agree to take out those loans lol it’s a predatory scheme  

No... just no. If you borrow money, please pay it back. No one forces anyone to sign a loan agreement. 

 

And just for the record.. I paid for my college degree with the 2 jobs I worked while being a student. 

Edited May 25, 2023 by shinyshimmery

[Communion]

1 hour ago, shinyshimmery said:

Joe Biden should have never said anything about that student debt stuff. Let people pay what they owe!!! it was nice to cut a break during covid but now the whole thing is such a mess. I hate how entitled some of these ppl with student debt have become, but I also know good ones that probably do deserve a break. But it should be treated like everything else in the world, if you owe it.. pay it. Maybe cut the debt in half… I agree that republicans take wayyyy too much and dont give anything back. The ppp loans were another set of disasters where ppl capitalized from them without the need. 

 

58 minutes ago, shinyshimmery said:

The world operates on money, this ain't nothing new. If you borrowed the money, pay it back. It IS entitlement to want to get out of something as serious as a loan repayment bc some politicians promised something verbally. In hindsight, everyone knew this would have been another broken promise from our leaders. 

Here, let me share a story to shine some light on this and hopefully show why this mindset is wrong. I apologize for the length of how this post may end up.

 

I believe student debt needs to be eliminated because I believe education is a right, but more importantly it needs to be eliminated because it's clear the fed has failed to uphold its fiduciary responsibility.

 

Yes, borrowers have certain responsibilities, but within our legal system, so do lenders of money.

 

When banks give out subprime mortgages to people who they know cannot pay, those banks are punished. There are consequences. Student debt justice - not forgiveness - is the consequence of the federal government giving out tens of thousands of dollars to poor Americans who they knew would not be able to pay it back because they needed an alternative to present the public after the mass exodus of factory jobs overseas.

 

I know this because I grew up destitute. When I filled out my FAFSA info, my family income was $12,000 for a family of 4. I understood I was poor. I understood that, despite teachers telling me - by virtue of being a "smart" student - that I needed to go to college even though I had no idea how since no one in my family ever did.

 

I only applied to public colleges and chose the school with the most scholarships. Even then, I needed to take out loans because the expansion of the Pell Grant under Obama did not regulate tuition increases. And took these loans under the direct guidance of my school's Financial Aid office. This includes instruction to have my disabled mother apply for Parent Plus loans that she would obviously be denied so that the amount of money that I then could borrow as her dependent would be bigger.

 

Days before classes start, I got told that I may not be allowed to attend as the loan wasn't disbursed yet. The Department of Education FLAGGED my application and my mom had to submit more paperwork wrt our income because, as one worker ended up saying on the phone, it's "hard to believe people are living on so little". Who the **** are they telling?  Once more paperwork was submitted and my mom wrote to our state rep to see if she could help advocate, the loan was disbursed in time before classes started.

 

So keep that in mind. My reality was that I was TOO POOR TO HAVE A BELIEVABLE QUALITY OF LIFE per the DoE's own internal systems and yet THEY STILL WILLINGLY GAVE ME TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS. At what point does the DoE face their irresponsibility over making a bad choice to lend money if I can't pay it back?

 

And the irony is... going to college worked! I feel so fortunate making like $50k because that's more than either parent ever made. I feel so fortunate to be removed from growing up constantly fearing the lights would be off coming home from school or a constant fear of homelessness. So I get rolling our eyes at people who make six figures, etc. But the reality is, even now with such comfort, I still won't ever pay back these loans on interest alone. 

 

And the DoE know this by virtue of the Income-Driven Repayment programs myself and millions of others are part of. I haven't missed a payment since graduating years ago. I still will never pay off my debt nor does the DoE think I can based on what they ask me to pay monthly. The purpose of not erasing the debt is to punish people like myself and others who were poor yet still get an education by making us debt-ridden for 20-25+ years for the sake of "teaching a lesson". And then what happens if Republicans want to get rid of these IDR programs?

 

This system of student debt simply does not work and you cannot fix education without first abolishing it.

[shinyshimmery]

10 minutes ago, Communion said:

 

Here, let me share a story to shine some light on this and hopefully show why this mindset is wrong. I apologize for the length of how this post may end up.

 

I believe student debt needs to be eliminated because I believe education is a right, but more importantly it needs to be eliminated because it's clear the fed has failed to uphold its fiduciary responsibility.

 

Yes, borrowers have certain responsibilities, but within our legal system, so do lenders of money.

 

When banks give out subprime mortgages to people who they know cannot pay, those banks are punished. There are consequences. Student debt justice - not forgiveness - is the consequence of the federal government giving out tens of thousands of dollars to poor Americans who they knew would not be able to pay it back because they needed an alternative to present the public after the mass exodus of factory jobs overseas.

 

I know this because I grew up destitute. When I filled out my FAFSA info, my family income was $12,000 for a family of 4. I understood I was poor. I understood that, despite teachers telling me - by virtue of being a "smart" student - that I needed to go to college even though I had no idea how since no one in my family ever did.

 

I only applied to public colleges and chose the school with the most scholarships. Even then, I needed to take out loans because the expansion of the Pell Grant under Obama did not regulate tuition increases. And took these loans under the direct guidance of my school's Financial Aid office. This includes instruction to have my disabled mother apply for Parent Plus loans that she would obviously be denied so that the amount of money that I then could borrow as her dependent would be bigger.

 

Days before classes start, I got told that I may not be allowed to attend as the loan wasn't disbursed yet. The Department of Education FLAGGED my application and my mom had to submit more paperwork wrt our income because, as one worker ended up saying on the phone, it's "hard to believe people are living on so little". Who the **** are they telling?  Once more paperwork was submitted and my mom wrote to our state rep to see if she could help advocate, the loan was disbursed in time before classes started.

 

So keep that in mind. My reality was that I was TOO POOR TO HAVE A BELIEVABLE QUALITY OF LIFE per the DoE's own internal systems and yet THEY STILL WILLINGLY GAVE ME TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS. At what point does the DoE face their irresponsibility over making a bad choice to lend money if I can't pay it back?

 

And the irony is... going to college worked! I feel so fortunate making like $50k because that's more than either parent ever made. I feel so fortunate to be removed from growing up constantly fearing the lights would be off coming home from school or a constant fear of homelessness. So I get rolling our eyes at people who make six figures, etc. But the reality is, even now with such comfort, I still won't ever pay back these loans on interest alone. 

 

And the DoE know this by virtue of the Income-Driven Repayment programs myself and millions of others are part of. I haven't missed a payment since graduating years ago. I still will never pay off my debt nor does the DoE think I can based on what they ask me to pay monthly. The purpose of not erasing the debt is to punish people like myself and others who were poor yet still get an education by making us debt-ridden for 20-25+ years for the sake of "teaching a lesson". And then what happens if Republicans want to get rid of these IDR programs?

 

This system of student debt simply does not work and you cannot fix education without first abolishing it.

Thank you for sharing your story. My experience was a lot different from yours, and I wish the best for you 

 

I do think that the American financial system is built to keep people earning a certain amount of money, while the rich get richer with a simple lift of a finger. I hope in the near future your loan repayment (if it gets to that) feels like a drop in the bucket. 

[SmittenCake]

im so tired of these people switching to republican 

[family.guy123]

The tweets confuse me. Is it really unusual for one party to vote “with” another? 

[Communion]

1 hour ago, family.guy123 said:

Is it really unusual

We're not talking about the frequency of something, we're talking about the moral depravity to try and cause undue harm to millions of poor Americans while being part of a political party that claims to be for otherwise.

 

It's especially craven when the people who are masquerading as fighters for the working class in their attempt to push conservatism are just themselves out-of-touch elites grifting in a rural facade to hurt poor people:

 

https://twitter.com/astradisastra/status/1661745594384392193

 

https://twitter.com/VoschWrites/status/1661761952316522497

 

https://twitter.com/paulimeth/status/1661740403379548168

[Bloo]

This is beyond repulsive. It can’t be said enough, that not being a Republican is not a sufficient political threshold. We should expect empathy, at least from politicians. It’s shameful that they’re doing worse than just restarting the student debt payments. They’re actually wanting to stack more debt on top of borrowers for trusting the government’s pause was a genuine temporary reprieve. 

[spree]

I don't understand "becoming homeless" when repayments start when you were paying them off before Covid just fine.  I never stopped paying mine.

[Communion]

12 minutes ago, spree said:

when you were paying them off before Covid just fine.  

Quote

• 92.7% of all student loans come from the federal government.
• 10.8% of student borrowers default on their educational loans within their first year of repayment.
• 25% of borrowers default within their first five years of repayment.
• 10%-20% of student loans are currently in default.
• 17.7% is the default rate among Black/African American student borrowers.
• 13% and 9% are the default rates for Hispanic/Latino and White/Caucasian student borrowers, respectively.

https://educationdata.org/student-loan-default-rate

?

[spree]

7 minutes ago, Communion said:

https://educationdata.org/student-loan-default-rate

?

look, going to school was the WORST decision of my life.  Absolute worst.  I've been paying 325/month since 2006 for absolutely nothing.  But...I've still been paying it back.  It was MY CHOICE to make that decision to go to school.  I have to own that choice.  I guess I'm just responsible?  I'm not going to blame the government for my idiotic decisions. 

[Communion]

3 minutes ago, spree said:

look, going to school was the WORST decision of my life.  Absolute worst.  I've been paying 325/month since 2006 for absolutely nothing.  But...I've still been paying it back.  It was MY CHOICE to make that decision to go to school.  I have to own that choice.  I guess I'm just responsible?  I'm not going to blame the government for my idiotic decisions. 

I'm not sure why you're pivoting. You tried to downplay the financial impact of student debt. You were shown that pre-COVID default rates for student loans were worse than the default rates for even mortgages during the Great Recession back in the late 2000s. 

 

The reality is that student debt becomes another form of restriction on economic mobility, not mobility in itself, despite it being a bipartisan goal across of GWB to Obama to try and push college as the thing to save America's workforce.

 

If you're fine being exploited by a government failing to meet its fiduciary responsibility, that's on you, but the vast majority of both Democratic voters and Americans at large don't agree that the student loan system works and supports broad forgiveness as a necessary measure to fix how college education works.

[spree]

6 minutes ago, Communion said:

I'm not sure why you're pivoting. You tried to downplay the financial impact of student debt. You were shown that pre-COVID default rates for student loans were worse than the default rates for even mortgages during the Great Recession back in the late 2000s. 

 

The reality is that student debt becomes another form of restriction on economic mobility, not mobility in itself, despite it being a bipartisan goal across of GWB to Obama to try and push college as the thing to save America's workforce.

 

If you're fine being exploited by a government failing to meet its fiduciary responsibility, that's on you, but the vast majority of both Democratic voters and Americans at large don't agree that the student loan system works and supports broad forgiveness as a necessary measure to fix how college education works.

I'm not pivoting, you're ignoring the fact it's someone's CHOICE to go to school.  No matter how predatory the system is, it's still a choice, and a choice you must own.

[Communion]

15 minutes ago, spree said:

the fact it's someone's CHOICE to go to school.  

You're not being a serious person..  Again, it's also a choice to get a mortgage. 

 

If buying a home, getting a degree, taking out a credit card, or (because we live in the hellhole of America) even going to the hospital are all ~transactions~ within the free market, there are regulations within that market that require all players to act in both good faith and to meet their ethical responsibility.

 

People make choices all the time, but it's the federal government's literal responsibility to regulate these choices and protect people from exploitation even with, yes, choices that they make themselves. 

 

This conversation is finally happening with student debt held by the fed (while the 2010s has seen this conversation long play out for private institutions scamming people, or are you ending up on the side of places like DeVry and University of Phoenix?) because the fed holds all the debt and didn't regulate itself because it was trying to create a jobs program that didn't work.

 

There's legal precedence within our society for this. This is how the government *already* currently works. In fact, it's literally only within the last 20 years that private loans became the only kind of debt exempt from being discharged vis bankruptcy.  When you borrow money, you in 99% of all other cases can file for bankruptcy. Why the difference for student debt? So I guess student debt DOESN'T follow norms? Be serious.

 

You've not made a single well-informed or meaningful argument defending student debt. 

Edited May 26, 2023 by Communion