base talk Dr Luke named Songwriter of the year by ASCAP

[Alfred]

41 minutes ago, gettsleazy said:

Can it, you human worm.

Wow. Very insensitive. Reported this as well.

[Alfred]

5 minutes ago, keshasfillers said:

Kesha nor made it up herself nor threw it in a lawsuit and you know it damn well

Denial much? There's a linked article right in front of your face from a reputable news organization. Yet you still deny the facts? 

[cyclone]

Whew chile lemme commit suicide at this point

[HANZ94]

2 hours ago, KatyPrismSpirit said:

i think the user meant that he "won" in the sense that kesha still had to fulfill her contract at the end and he is still very succesful, pushing out #1 hits left and right

Yes that’s what I meant and to make it worse Kesha has been flopping for years rainbow had a cute mini success but after that everything just flopped 

[gettsleazy]

There is nothing racist about critiquing an artist and their intentions for working with an alleged rapist and abuser.
 

Any implication otherwise is willful bait and a really gross, problematic way to try to get a “gotcha” moment. 

 

I’m tired of people stooping to weaponizing marginalized communities,  like our trans brothers and sisters and the Black community, to try to paint valid criticism of artists as transphobic and racist. 

[CroNich]

1 hour ago, KatyPrismSpirit said:

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-02-07/judge-kesha-made-a-false-claim-about-producer-dr-luke 

Kesha was forced to turn over these texts and they were released by Luke’s team to make kesha out to look like a liar. All she was doing to discussing something someone had told her with a friend.

[SmittenCake]

2 hours ago, Alfred said:

Are you serious? Do you know how racist that statement is? Calling rap/hip-hop artists problematic by definition? Wow. Reporting this post ASAP. 

There's absolutely nothing wrong or racist with calling rap/hiphop artists problematic. You want to know what's racist? Dr.Luke using names commonly given to Black people to ghost produce music. The HipHop/Rap genre is littered with artists who glamourize violence, colorism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, etc and rappers are less reluctant to work with a problematic producer than a pop artist would. You have colorist rapists like Kodack Black and Tekashi throw out hits. Ethics and morals aren't a thing of importance. Probably why Luke feels so comfortable sneaking himself into these genres. 

 

Would like to clarify that I am an actual Black person (very rare on this forum, I know) before you weaponize race with faux outrage. 

[Alfred]

7 hours ago, gettsleazy said:

There is nothing racist about critiquing an artist and their intentions for working with an alleged rapist and abuser.
 

Any implication otherwise is willful bait and a really gross, problematic way to try to get a “gotcha” moment. 

 

I’m tired of people stooping to weaponizing marginalized communities,  like our trans brothers and sisters and the Black community, to try to paint valid criticism of artists as transphobic and racist. 

Your buddy literally said rappers and hip hop artists work with Luke because they themselves are also "problematic." That the only way Luke gets away with it is bc the rap/hip-hop community is perceived as problematic already, so no one will expect anything more of them. Don't try to twist the narrative to suit your mental gymnastics. That comment was racist. Plain and simple.

 

7 hours ago, SmittenCake said:

There's absolutely nothing wrong or racist with calling rap/hiphop artists problematic. You want to know what's racist? Dr.Luke using names commonly given to Black people to ghost produce music. The HipHop/Rap genre is littered with artists who glamourize violence, colorism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, etc and rappers are less reluctant to work with a problematic producer than a pop artist would. You have colorist rapists like Kodack Black and Tekashi throw out hits. Ethics and morals aren't a thing of importance. Probably why Luke feels so comfortable sneaking himself into these genres. 

 

Would like to clarify that I am an actual Black person (very rare on this forum, I know) before you weaponize race with faux outrage. 

Why do you have to view it like he's "sneaking in" to these genres? He's a producer. Is he supposed to only work with one type of artist? One race or gender? Shouldn't a producer or anyone creative want to collaborate with a diverse group of artists?

 

I get it. Your explanation makes sense... but I think y'all twist the narrative that he's only working with hip-hop artists bc it's easy for someone with a problematic past to hide behind them. That narrative confirms your bias against Luke while ridiculing an entire genre. To me, that's degrading and racist. Even if historically that genre has been, as you said, littered with glamorization of violence, colorism, sexism, homophobia, etc. You're not wrong about that. But I don't like the automatic grouping in of "everything bad and immoral" with rappers and hip hop artists bc they are not a monolith. TomTom's comment was very insensitive and racist. 

Edited May 21, 2023 by Alfred

[SmittenCake]

4 minutes ago, Alfred said:

 

 

Why do you have to view it like he's "sneaking in" to these genres? He's a producer. Is he supposed to only work with one type of artist? One race or gender? Shouldn't a producer or anyone creative want to collaborate with a diverse group of artists?

 

He hasn't shown ANY interest in working with rappers and hip hop artists until he found out he was running out of options. He knew what he was doing.

 

What he does is not different than racist white men banking millions of dollars from Black people. First example that comes to mind is around 99% of hair products made for Black people, mostly women and girls, are sold by men who vote Republican and couldn't give a damn about Black people. Only their money.

 

 

edit: I'm not going to go back and forth with you on the last part. I used to work with Black children and while the rap genre isn't a monolith, the most popular messages are the most divisive, dehumanizing ones. There is a massive problem with these genres today and there needs to be a complete rehaul. 

Edited May 21, 2023 by SmittenCake

[gettsleazy]

2 minutes ago, Alfred said:

Your buddy literally said rappers and hip hop artists work with Luke because they themselves are also "problematic." That the only way Luke gets away with it is bc the rap/hip-hop community is perceived as problematic already, so no one will expect anything more of them. Don't try to twist the narrative to suit your mental gymnastics. That comment was racist. Plain and simple.

 

“Sometimes” is the operative word in that post, Alfred, and you know it. Luke has worked with artists in the Rap/Hip-Hop sphere that *are* considered problematic, like Nicki (supports abuse and rape, silences victims), Latto (racebaiting), Tyga (transphobia), DaBaby, Lil Wayne, etc. etc. These artists are perceived as problematic already/have been cancelled. There is a certain level of malintention behind Luke pointedly working with people in this sphere.

 

Also, you’re the one who’s using a racist dog whistle to fit your agenda by implying that only Black people are rappers/hip-hop artists. Unlike you, I’m not going to use a bad faith argument to harass you and threaten to ZTP you like you’re doing to Tom. 
 

Stop using “race” as a gotcha. A Black person in this thread literally just called you out for it. You’re being incredibly insensitive!

[EmailMySwift]

14 minutes ago, Alfred said:

 

 

Why do you have to view it like he's "sneaking in" to these genres? He's a producer. Is he supposed to only work with one type of artist? One race or gender? Shouldn't a producer or anyone creative want to collaborate with a diverse group of artists?

 

The problem is that he preferred to work with a very specific type of artist before the allegations: young white women with some talent but not enough to not need him. Those who had enough talent (usually vocal) to break away and go on without him did: P!nk, Kelly Clarkson. The others were stuck with him. Obviously working with black and trans artists is great, but Luke had no interest in that until after getting cancelled. 

Edited May 21, 2023 by EmailMySwift

[TomTom]

3 hours ago, KatyPrismSpirit said:

ur acting like he isn't producing number one hits by artists that aren't even on his label left and right  

 

What label? The paper entity whose CEO he ceased to be 6 years ago and which is carried by three artists who all work there involuntarily?

 

3 hours ago, KatyPrismSpirit said:

also, the passive aggressive undertone of your post, why are you acting like big names in rap/hip-hop are somehow less valuable than big names in pop  Saweetie, Nicki Minaj, Doja Cat (which she claimed herself she is allowed to work with whoever she wants several times, stop assuming things you don't know) and J. Cole are all "just as problematic"? literally go outside  

I literally claimed none of these things and it takes a severe lack of reading comprehension to arrive at any of these conclusions.

 

3 hours ago, KatyPrismSpirit said:

Let's not even discuss the stuff Kesha did in the past years to Katy which defamed her? How does the username "check out" when your fav literally made up lies about Katy and threw it in a lawsuit she wanted zero part off with stuff that never happened to her. Defamation much 

Absolutely outrageous propaganda about which I'm sadly not surprised.

 

You should take a dictionary and look up the words "defamation" and "lie". It tells you that defamation applies to false statements causing reputational damage which by default has to apply to (alleged) perpetrators of a crime and not victims to be logically consistent. It also tells you that the word "lie" means making a false statement maliciously which is the exact opposite of sending a private text message in good faith whose underlying facts you believe to be true based on information from third parties.

 

Falsity and malice are two separate elements of a defamation claim and just because Luke was able to prove falsity, that doesn't mean he can prove malice too and unless there is a decision to the contrary, it is factually incorrect to say Kesha "lied".

[Alfred]

37 minutes ago, EmailMySwift said:

The problem is that he preferred to work with a very specific type of artist before the allegations: young white women with some talent but not enough to not need him. Those who had enough talent (usually vocal) to break away and go on without him did: P!nk, Kelly Clarkson. The others were stuck with him. Obviously working with black and trans artists is great, but Luke had no interest in that until after getting cancelled. 

Luke worked with a bevy of non-white artists before the allegations: Flo Rida, Ciara, Jordin Sparks, B.o.B, Taio Cruz, Nelly, T Pain & Akon, Lil Wayne, T.I., Kelly Rowland, Nicki Minaj, will.I.am. All well before 2014. (2008-2012) Were his intentions back then also strategic and conniving? 

 

Some of you are conflating the absence of Luke working with as many white women post-allegations with him “pointedly working” with the rap/hip-hop community now. The fact is, he always has. What changed is his reputation and an immediate rejection from those white women in pop. What also changed is the natural fluctuation of music trends where pop music became less profitable than hip hop and rap. He had no choice but to pivot to what was A) more profitable and B) who would agree to work with him. 

Edited May 21, 2023 by Alfred

[Alfred]

36 minutes ago, gettsleazy said:

Stop using “race” as a gotcha. A Black person in this thread literally just called you out for it. You’re being incredibly insensitive!

For someone who called me a “human worm” today, I don’t think you’re in a place to offer what you think is insensitive or not. 

[gettsleazy]

3 minutes ago, Alfred said:

What changed is his reputation and an immediate rejection from those white women in pop.
 He had no choice but to pivot to what was A) more profitable and B) who would agree work with him. 

Thank you for proving the point lol

[SmittenCake]

9 minutes ago, gettsleazy said:

Thank you for proving the point lol

 

 

[Born to Run]

Taylor Swift returning to Spotify on Witness release teas 

[Alfred]

34 minutes ago, gettsleazy said:

Thank you for proving the point lol

What point? That Luke pivoted to hip hop and rap bc pop wouldn’t take him? Who was arguing against that? 
 

You quoted me thinking you “got me” and ignored the entire first half of my post that proved you, Smitten, and that other user wrong. the actual point of my argument is that Luke has always worked within the rap/hip hop sphere, long before the allegations. And that his “malintent” working within that genre post-2014 is your own projection and mental gymnastics to prove your biases. 
 

Seems like fact is inconvenient to your argument. Therefore, you ignored it and thought you did sumn.  Let’s see how you twist this post 

[SmittenCake]

1 minute ago, Alfred said:

What point? That Luke pivoted to hip hop and rap bc pop wouldn’t take him? Who was arguing against that? 
 

You quoted me thinking you “got me” and ignored the entire first half of my post that proved you, Smitten, and that other user wrong. the actual point of my argument is that Luke has always worked within the rap/hip hop sphere, long before the allegations. And that his “malintent” working within that genre post-2014 is your own projection and mental gymnastics to prove your biases. 
 

Seems like fact is inconvenient to your argument. Therefore, you ignored it and thought you did sumn.  Let’s see how you twist this post 

His bread and butter were pop girls; not rappers. Him recently moving to the rap genre and giving himself an ghost writer names commonly given to Black Americans is a form of trying to migrate to a genre of music (in this case rap) permanently. 

[Alfred]

7 minutes ago, SmittenCake said:

His bread and butter were pop girls; not rappers. Him recently moving to the rap genre and giving himself a ghost writer names commonly given to Black Americans is a form of trying to migrate to a genre of music (in this case rap) permanently. 

Yes. Once again it’s clear that due to the loss of his bread and butter, he had to pivot. Or “migrate” to a genre as you said. That’s true. I don’t see malintent behind that. It was out of necessity. 

[SmittenCake]

2 minutes ago, Alfred said:

Yes. Once again it’s clear that due to the loss of his bread and butter, he had to pivot. Or “migrate” to a genre as you said. That’s true. I don’t see malintent behind that. It was out of necessity. 

Very reminiscent to when Hillary Clinton wanted more Black voters and did this embarrassing thing:

 

 

then that **** with the hot sauce...anyways 

 

The moment he discovered he couldn't work with majority white liberal pop artists he decided to lean into the rap genre which is normally a-political and concerns for morals and ethics is almost nonexistent. This how and other person of color would view it as well. Its jarring to see someone jump through hoops to defend this man with so much moral debt and depravity within his soul. 

 

[Alfred]

14 minutes ago, SmittenCake said:

The moment he discovered he couldn't work with majority white liberal pop artists he decided to lean into the rap genre which is normally a-political and concerns for morals and ethics is almost nonexistent. This how and other person of color would view it as well. Its jarring to see someone jump through hoops to defend this man with so much moral debt and depravity within his soul. 

I personally don’t believe he has “moral debt” or “depravity within his soul.” Difference of opinion and perspective exist in this world. Sorry if that’s jarring for you. 
 

I could also be condescending and say it’s jarring to see you and a slew of other Kesha fans jumping into any and every Luke-related thread to remind people you hate him and he sucks. And to also guilt and shame any and every artist who works with him AND the fans of those songs/artists. That’s truly jarring and depraved.

Did it ever occur to you there are actually fans of his music production? I know- so jarring, right? This forum is for fans of hundreds of types of music, shows, movies, etc to voice their interest in those things. If you really despised Dr. Luke, why do you spend so much energy repeating it over and over again? I respond to y’all bc I think it’s important to be challenged and have nuanced conversations around perceivably “black and white” topics (no pun intended). I think you could learn to let in some nuance to your argument and not be so fixed mindset about it. 

Edited May 21, 2023 by Alfred

[FightDragonsWithMe]

I do stand with and support Kesha while also thinking Dr Luke is trash but I also have supported several people he's worked with and continues too like Doja & Kim. I do think it's unfair and Kesha does in fact deserve justice for what she went through. 

[SmittenCake]

26 minutes ago, Alfred said:

I personally don’t believe he has “moral debt” or “depravity within his soul.” Difference of opinion and perspective exist in this world. Sorry if that’s jarring for you. 
 

I could also be condescending and say it’s jarring to see you and a slew of other Kesha fans jumping into any and every Luke-related thread to remind people you hate him and he sucks. And to also guilt and shame any and every artist who works with him AND the fans of those songs/artists. That’s truly jarring and depraved.

Did it ever occur to you there are actually fans of his music production? I know- so jarring, right? This forum is for fans of hundreds of types of music, shows, movies, etc to voice their interest in those things. If you really despised Dr. Luke, why do you spend so much energy repeating it over and over again? I respond to y’all bc I think it’s important to be challenged and have nuanced conversations around perceivably “black and white” topics (no pun intended). I think you could learn to let in some nuance to your argument and not be so fixed mindset about it. 

How is he not morally unethical? he assaulted Kesha and numerous women in Hollywood and the music industry have spoken out against him. At this point you're just choosing to defend him because he has close ties to your favorite artist. It must be a bummer to defend this man because when the first thing someone thinks about when they bring up Kim Petras is the producer she's defended so many times. 

 

And, yes, people who openly enjoy his music and him as a person deserve to be shamed. They shouldn't live in peace knowing how much damage he's done to Kesha and how he's not only ruined her life but the lives of other artists as well. There's recorded evidence of Kesha filing a report of sexual assault and the judge threw it out and said she should have known this would happen. Are you alright with that? does that sit well with you? he's a sick man and wields his power to take advantage of others.

 

Nothing about your posts are challenging or nuanced. You've weaponized race to defend an abhorrent, despicable human. 

 

[gettsleazy]

5 minutes ago, SmittenCake said:

How is he not morally unethical? he assaulted Kesha and numerous women in Hollywood and the music industry have spoken out against him. At this point you're just choosing to defend him because he has close ties to your favorite artist. It must be a bummer to defend this man because when the first thing someone thinks about when they bring up Kim Petras is the producer she's defended so many times. 

 

And, yes, people who openly enjoy his music and him as a person deserve to be shamed. They shouldn't live in peace knowing how much damage he's done to Kesha and how he's not only ruined her life but the lives of other artists as well. There's recorded evidence of Kesha filing a report of sexual assault and the judge threw it out and said she should have known this would happen. Are you alright with that? does that sit well with you? he's a sick man and wields his power to take advantage of others.

 

Nothing about your posts are challenging or nuanced. You've weaponized race to defend an abhorrent, despicable human.