discussion Muslim extremists intimidate and chase out LGBT students at a high school in Belgium

[Navy4Life]

1 hour ago, BOOMBAYAH said:

It’s funny how during the Qatar World Cup all the Muslims where saying “you need to respect their culture” in defence of their anti-gay laws, but when it comes to secularism and Western human rights they don’t gaf about respecting gay people.  There are plenty of wealthy Islamic countries around the world, I never got why they didn’t just leave to go there if they can’t reconcile living in a non-religious/Christian society. 

This. 

[TouchinFree]

5 minutes ago, Communion said:

I mean, that is the natural result when purposefully inciting people to essentialize entire demographics.

 

How do threads become about if criticisms of all Muslims are done in good faith if not from people deciding to use instances of individual bigotry to essentialize all Muslims? What benefit comes from language like "Muslims represent the destruction of modern-day Europe"?

 

These threads aren't meaningful or nuanced. They typically follow the below pattern:

*Conservative Muslim individuals filmed doing something* -> Europeans claim Islam is at odds with Europe -> Europeans claim Muslims at large are at odds with Europe -> Europeans make incendiary and white supremacist posts about immigration laws -> People react to what is objectively racism -> Europeans complain about 'whataboutism'

 

It's odd because, in conversations with regard to social constructivism and reactionary European rejection of concepts like dismantling whiteness and white supremacy being built into Europe's institutions (to where members even defend things like blackface as 'nuanced' ), such never devolves to the kind of essentializing seen in these threads. I've never seen calls to halt Polish migration into the US when users defend white supremacy, but homophobia amongst Muslim youth has people going "I'LL HELP ROUND UP THESE COCKROACHES MYSELF". Why?

 

 

[Lovesong]

1 hour ago, Communion said:

Now why would I even engage with an ethnonationalist user like @Lovesong who has routinely called for the eradication of Palestinians and said that all criticism of a Jewish supremacist state are "antisemitic"?

 

Am I meant to believe someone who defends *checks notes* a theocratic state has genuine qualms about the conservative, reactionary impact of organized religion that aren't just covert racialization? How can I as an atheist even begin to tackle conservative religious thought with someone who seems more than supportive of the conservative pillars of a faith?

 

What are the specific differences between Muslim teens being homophobic "to Europeans" (I guess LGBT Muslim Youth in Europe don't matter?) and an apartheid Jewish supremacist state trying to eradicate Arabs - and how do these differences lead to the former being so bad that users claim it as "the destruction of Europe" while often defending the latter instance of religion-fueled violence?

Who advocated for destruction of Palestinian people? Direct quote in the studio, please!

 

I said Jews shoun’t be attacked on the streets based on fact of being a jew? Random people eating on the streets, and people who are accused of being Jewish? Blamed for anything and everything Israel does, all while at every Palestinian rally there are chants of “Kill the jews, rape their mothers, rape their daughters”. You (and others) will never care about any of that.

 

You are the one who are supremacist. You are the one who defends any POC and Muslim crime, all while ignoring the fact that all LGBT youth, including Muslim youth are under death threat by MUSLIM community (this being true in the countries like Russia too!). All while ingnoring the fact that only suprematist states in the world are Arab states , where all the minorities who did not defended themselves (like Christians in Lebanon) end up being dead of forced into Islam.

 

That besides of other fun staff like honor killings, clan courts, marital murders.

 

You are biggest whataboutist on this site.

[#Beautiful]

shocked and definitely surprised!

[ItsJustMe.]

The people trying to deflect  this is not some protesting, extremist group doing this, there are regular kids/teens. The comments on TikToks of this situation are very scary. People are putting hearts in the comments, thanking them for standing up against LGBT/standing up for religion, calling them warriors… it’s a big problem 

[Cheers]

And it’s going to get worse unfortunately 

[State of Grace.]

Suspend their asses

 

57 minutes ago, Communion said:

I mean, that is the natural result when purposefully inciting people to essentialize entire demographics.

 

How do threads become about if criticisms of all Muslims are done in good faith if not from people deciding to use instances of individual bigotry to essentialize all Muslims? What benefit comes from language like "Muslims represent the destruction of modern-day Europe"?

 

These threads aren't meaningful or nuanced. They typically follow the below pattern:

*Conservative Muslim individuals filmed doing something* -> Europeans claim Islam is at odds with Europe -> Europeans claim Muslims at large are at odds with Europe -> Europeans make incendiary and white supremacist posts about immigration laws -> People react to what is objectively racism -> Europeans complain about 'whataboutism'

 

It's odd because, in conversations with regard to social constructivism and reactionary European rejection of concepts like dismantling whiteness and white supremacy being built into Europe's institutions (to where members even defend things like blackface as 'nuanced' ), such never devolves to the kind of essentializing seen in these threads. I've never seen calls to halt Polish migration into the US when users defend white supremacy, but homophobia amongst Muslim youth has people going "I'LL HELP ROUND UP THESE COCKROACHES MYSELF". Why?

[MotoPapi]

Western Europe has become a mess 

[terrorblade]

wow so peaceful

[SapphireSky]

Islam is probably the worst thing to ever happen on this earth. Rip Europe 

[thetea]

4 hours ago, HardBambi said:

I didn’t know that but if it’s true that’s terrifying indeed. It seems like this religion will never ‘get better’ at least when it comes to homophobia they always keep it to 100 

it's so weird that christianity had a lot of the same beliefs that islam does, such as wearing head scarves when praying, dressing modestly, women respecting male authority and so and so but a lot of those antiquated beliefs stopped being followed as time went on. i wonder why islam retains all of those values, and to such an extreme level for some muslim people. 

[thetea]

2 hours ago, BOOMBAYAH said:

It’s funny how during the Qatar World Cup all the Muslims where saying “you need to respect their culture” in defence of their anti-gay laws, but when it comes to secularism and Western human rights they don’t gaf about respecting gay people.  There are plenty of wealthy Islamic countries around the world, I never got why they didn’t just leave to go there if they can’t reconcile living in a non-religious/Christian society. 

i agree. i think if you are visiting or living in a country where your religion is the minority, you shouldn't judge people for acting in a way that is acceptable for their people and incite violence and riotous behaviour. just like if you went to a country with a majority muslim population, you shouldn't protest or openly spew hatred to their beliefs

[thetea]

4 hours ago, SuperCiC1 said:

I understand this is an extremely

volatile and personal situation but I do not agree with stereotyping anyone by their religion, the several dozen muslims I have met have been no more homophobic than the christians. I know many young muslim guys who are very openminded. 

this. all of muslim people i've met have been so kind, welcoming and friendly. this isn't an accurate portrayal of the majority of muslim people. it's just the worst people of a certain group making the most noise and receiving the most media attention, which is the case for most contentious topics.

[Delirious]

21 minutes ago, SapphireSky said:

Islam is probably the worst thing to ever happen on this earth. Rip Europe 

Religion*

[Delirious]

14 minutes ago, thetea said:

this. all of muslim people i've met have been so kind, welcoming and friendly. this isn't an accurate portrayal of the majority of muslim people. it's just the worst people of a certain group making the most noise and receiving the most media attention, which is the case for most contentious topics.

Oh that's so nice for you but I wonder which countries still have death penalties for gay sex? 🤔

 

Oh wait.

[SapphireSky]

1 minute ago, Delirious said:

Religion*

Islam* 

[YellowRibbon]

This is why I'm kinda glad that there's a whole ocean in-between them and South America... At least in my country, people would jump at their throats. Even if homophobia is still prevalent in several groups of the society, even they would side with their compatriots instead of siding with a culture with completely opposite values than the ones we have here.

[Reginald]

Wow, imagine the followers of a false god using threats and intimidation tactics to cause harm to innocent people  

 

Imagine that 

 

Every day, I pray for the death of the "god" of man. Its followers are deranged and dangerous.  

 

 

 

[Delirious]

5 minutes ago, Reginald said:

Wow, imagine the followers of a false god using threats and intimidation tactics to cause harm to innocent people  

 

Imagine that 

 

Every day, I pray for the death of the "god" of man. Its followers are deranged and dangerous.  

 

 

 

Sis delete/edit this. I got a WP for this last time

[LikeATattoo]

This thread…why do gays do this? I get that most queer people are left-leaning and as such, will discourage seemingly sweeping generalisations of other marginalised groups (Islam obviously being marginalised in the West). That being said, at what point do you stand the hell up and recognise the reality of a situation for what it is?

 

There are really people in this thread shouting, “But what about white Evangelicals being awful too?”, as though that group of bigots isn’t even more called out for their awfulness than Muslims are lol.
 

By and large, these “kind, warm, open-minded” Muslims that y’all are waxing lyrical about in here, only make nice with y’all because they’re constricted by the societal rules of the Western nations (UK or US, in most cases) that they’re situated in. The grand majority of your Muslim besties are categorically unwilling to defend people like you (even passively) in Islamic spaces. Most of them won’t even make the grand leap to defending you to their families.

 

I’d rather urinate kidney stones for a month than defend followers of a doctrine that demonises my very existence. I can’t fathom being so hopelessly devoid of integrity and basic self-awareness. Y’all are disgraceful beyond redemption.

 

ETA: Okay, this was very reactionary. I’m not deleting it though because at the end of the day, homophobia is worse.

Edited May 15, 2023 by LikeATattoo

[pisuke]

9 minutes ago, LikeATattoo said:

This thread…why do gays do this? I get that most queer people are left-leaning and as such, will discourage seemingly sweeping generalisations of other marginalised groups (Islam obviously being marginalised in the West), but at what point do you stand the hell up and recognise the reality of a situation for what it is?

 

There are really people in this thread shouting, “But what about white Evangelicals being awful too?”, as though that group of bigots isn’t even more called out for their awfulness than Muslims are lol.
 

None of the “open-minded” Muslims that y’all are waxing lyrical about in here are willing to defend people like you (even passively) in Islamic spaces. Most of them won’t even make the grand leap to defending y’all to their families.

 

I implore all of you; stop going to bat for people who subscribe to a doctrine that demonises your very existence. Stop it. Please.

Thanks for making sense. 

[LikeATattoo]

8 minutes ago, pisuke said:

Thanks for making sense. 

[Miss Show Business]

19 minutes ago, LikeATattoo said:

This thread…why do gays do this? I get that most queer people are left-leaning and as such, will discourage seemingly sweeping generalisations of other marginalised groups (Islam obviously being marginalised in the West), but at what point do you stand the hell up and recognise the reality of a situation for what it is?

 

There are really people in this thread shouting, “But what about white Evangelicals being awful too?”, as though that group of bigots isn’t even more called out for their awfulness than Muslims are lol.
 

None of the “open-minded” Muslims that y’all are waxing lyrical about in here are willing to defend people like you (even passively) in Islamic spaces. Most of them won’t even make the grand leap to defending y’all to their families.

 

I implore all of you; stop going to bat for people who subscribe to a doctrine that demonises your very existence. Stop it. Please.

THANK you.

 

I'm sick of people defending Islam when it comes to radicalists. Yes, I think all religion is bad, but there is a HUGE difference between majority-Christian nations and majority-Muslim nations. The latter are almost always Islamic authoritarian theocracies that legalize human rights abuses and have horrible practices when it comes to women, LGBTQs, etc. And, YES, this comes EXPLICITLY from the Q'uran and Hadith's, EXACTLY like how the same laws were present in Christian theocracies in the middle ages and early modern period.

 

Christianity is at a completely different timeline than Islam. Islam, is quite literally, still stuck in the middle ages, and it NEEDS to be shamed and criticised until good people of Muslim faith start rising up for their freedom and choices (much like what we've been seeing in Iran.)

 

You can criticise a religion while also recognizing that even not all followers of said religion believe in things like the OP. But we also cannot ignore that behavior like this is directly derived from Islam and it's teachings.

[Jonver]

as expected from muslims

[thetea]

1 hour ago, Delirious said:

Oh that's so nice for you but I wonder which countries still have death penalties for gay sex? 🤔

 

Oh wait.

that's not what i'm saying. you don't need to be so extreme in your stance on this. there are liberal muslims, it's just hard to do that when so many people younger and older are conservative. i'm not even muslim, but i feel that you judging an entire group of people is unjustified. islam as a whole needs to do a lot to catch up with more modern beliefs spewing hatred like this doesn't result in any meaningful change.