ForgottenSoul Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 2 minutes ago, Jjang said: ... which is why collectively dropping out as a protest against an ongoing Holocaust is what the people are demanding. Imagine if this thread was made during the Nazi Germany Olympics ATRL would have been like LET THEM COMPETE WHO CARES It's funny you bring up the Olympics when at the 1948 Olympics the Olympic mandate of Palestine expired and the Arab countries who intended to boycott decided to take part instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vale9001 Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 6 minutes ago, Both Sides Now said: The brain rot of thinking that Palestinians deserve a genocide because Hamas are homophobic is just… I suppose we should drop a nuke on 50% of America which is also homophobic? This should be a ZTP. By the way, if you ever visit Israel - don't go outside of Tel Aviv. You might wish a genocide for Israelis when you see there are tons of ultra-homophobic Israelis in East Jerusalem, the settlements etc. "By the way, if you ever visit Israel - don't go outside of Tel Aviv." there are gay palestinians escaped from their state to be welcomed as refugees in Israel and you write to someone to not go to in some Jerusalem neighboourd. Please have mercy for our basic common sense also writing "hamas is homophobic" ...again have mercy for our common sense...Palestine is homophobic, not only Hamas. Saying that of course I agree saying a genocide is ok (or at least something we shouldn't care too much) in a country cause for their culture they are still a mysoginist- homophobic etc.. makes not sense and it's kinda scary as way of thinking. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jjang Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 (edited) 3 minutes ago, supaspaz said: Well, the fact that you can't appreciate the difference between an Olympics literally organized by Hitler as propaganda for his regime and a singing competition in which Israel is one of dozens of competitors speaks volumes. omg this comment made everything different to me! thank you for opening my eyes and making me realize that allowing a genocidal country to participate is not that bad Edited March 29 by Jjang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jjang Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 (edited) 7 minutes ago, vale9001 said: "By the way, if you ever visit Israel - don't go outside of Tel Aviv." there are gay palestinians escaped from their state to be welcomed as refugees in Israel and you write to someone to not go to in some Jerusalem neighboourd. Please have mercy for our basic common sense also writing "hamas is homophobic" ...again have mercy for our common sense...Palestine is homophobic, not only Hamas. Saying that of course I agree saying a genocide is ok (or at least something we shouldn't care too much) in a country cause for their culture they are still a mysoginist- homophobic etc.. makes not sense and it's kinda scary as way of thinking. let's make it extremely simple for you to grasp: whether Palestine/Palestinians are homophobic is completely and utterly irrelevant. The only reason this is being brought up to begin with is due to how normalized rampant anti-arab racism and Islamophobia are these days and Western gays that think their little circle of identity politics dynamic naturally parallel politics of countries that have been torn to shreds by imperialism since their inception and haven't had a single day of peace lived or real autonomy/authority over their own bodies. Edited March 29 by Jjang 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mean Trees Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 8 minutes ago, vale9001 said: "By the way, if you ever visit Israel - don't go outside of Tel Aviv." there are gay palestinians escaped from their state to be welcomed as refugees in Israel and you write to someone to not go to in some Jerusalem neighboourd. Please have mercy for our basic common sense also writing "hamas is homophobic" ...again have mercy for our common sense...Palestine is homophobic, not only Hamas. Saying that of course I agree saying a genocide is ok (or at least something we shouldn't care too much) in a country cause for their culture they are still a mysoginist- homophobic etc.. makes not sense and it's kinda scary as way of thinking. How many at that? Also Israel will literally blackmail LGBT+ Palestinians so I have no idea why you would act like Israel is any paradise for queer people. Just fake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solaria Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 Some of y'all really need to google Maslow's Pyramid once in a while because how are we still circling back to the ''b-b-b-but gay rights!!!'' debate 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATRL Moderator khalyan Posted March 29 ATRL Moderator Share Posted March 29 I merged the Olly thread with the main Eurovision thread. Today, nine artists released statements about Palestine, not just Olly. Artists like Bambie Thug stated in separate statements that them dropping out would result in one less pro-Palestine voice at the contest and their voices at the contest are the most necessary in protesting Israel and their participation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jjang Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 3 minutes ago, Solaria said: Some of y'all really need to google Maslow's Pyramid once in a while because how are we still circling back to the ''b-b-b-but gay rights!!!'' debate how ATRL gays think it goes: Israel: knock knock! Palestinian we're ethnically cleansing you out of your home and will murder you if you disobey Palestinian: but wait! I'm gay! Israel: oh! you could have told us that in the first place, you're off to go baby girl!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATRL Moderator supaspaz Posted March 29 ATRL Moderator Share Posted March 29 37 minutes ago, Jjang said: omg this comment made everything different to me! thank you for opening my eyes and making me realize that allowing a genocidal country to participate is not that bad The point is that people can reasonably disagree about forms of protest and you immediately jumping to compare people to Nazi sympathizers is not the rhetorical slam dunk you think it is. It just makes clear your lack of perspective. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Komet Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 I did not just see somebody say 'whether somebody considers you to be sub-human is irrelevant' 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abelfenty Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 Can we stop HARASSING these artists to make statements over something they have NO control over 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jjang Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 (edited) 9 minutes ago, supaspaz said: The point is that people can reasonably disagree about forms of protest and you immediately jumping to compare people to Nazi sympathizers is not the rhetorical slam dunk you think it is. It just makes clear your lack of perspective. Yes, it's me lacking perspective, a Palestinian, for saying these are peak desperate times and there's no time for these discussions anymore, only action. not the plethora of gays in this thread running to characterize this genocide as a gay rights issue. Edited March 29 by Jjang 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fevesy Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 In Olly's specific case this reeks of BBC involvement to me, not trying to defend being on the fence since he shouldn't be but their contracts usually have extremely strict impartially clauses and before he was announced as the Eurovision act he was publicly liking tweets calling Israel an apartheid state and even signed this before the announcement, which caused Zionists and the UK Government to cry to the BBC to get him to cut ties after he was announced https://www.nme.com/news/music/olly-alexander-criticised-for-signing-statement-calling-israel-an-apartheid-state-and-accusing-it-of-genocide-3562288 I would find it hard to believe that he would slightly change his tune and become more on the fence over the last 3 months unless he was getting pressure to do or he is really just simply just being selfish and caring about his career. I'll remain hopeful that they and the others are playing the long game not to get warnings from EBU and their broadcasters and do something on the night ala Hatari - however that is < 2 months away which is likely thousands of more citizens in Gaza killed - which is why this letter leaves a bit of a sour taste, if you're gonna acknowledge it, acknowledge it fully. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funhouse Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 It's a lose-lose situation for the participants at this point. They're backed into a corner, will probably get punished by their broadcaster if they do anything more than this statement but will also get called out by their fanbase/intended audience for not doing enough. Not to mention anything they do in support of Palestine will send the zionist into a tizzy. The EBU is doing a great job at making future Eurovision participation seem as unappealing as possible to artists. Why would anyone want to be a part of this? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pendulum Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 Non-Eurovision viewers demanding Olly to withdraw is kinda rubbing me the wrong way. I'm all of Israel's disqualification and non-involvement at Eurovision but it is too late at this point. The contest is in a month and a half and at this point all participating countries have spent a lot of money on participation, plus full preparations like rehearsals, staging and whatnot are currently happening. You can't just pull off overnight and there is probably a contract between the national broadcaster and artist, BBC and Olly in this case. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendolyn Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 Saw Olly statement, there is literally nothing he can do especially since BBC is government funded, so if he pulls out, there will be major backlash. This whole season is going to be hyper focused on Israel outside the eurofan bubble, but that's what the EBU clearly wanted so! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pendulum Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 You could've made a separate thread instead of polluting the Eurovision base with literal f-words 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FOCK Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 (edited) 55 minutes ago, supaspaz said: The point is that people can reasonably disagree about forms of protest and you immediately jumping to compare people to Nazi sympathizers is not the rhetorical slam dunk you think it is. It just makes clear your lack of perspective. The user you're responding to is Palestinian and is telling you - artists dropping out in protest is the action they want. This user is Lebanese, and I'm telling you, artists dropping out is the course of action I'd like to see. An organisation advocating for Queer Palestinians is telling artists, dropping out is what they want to see. These western saviour complexes and presuming they "know better" what the Palestinians need & want is high key pathological at this rate. Edited March 29 by FOCK 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pendulum Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 Olly and the other acts who have co-signed this are literally helpless in this situation. Harrassing Eurovision participants is the wrong way and the fandom has been repeating this for months. What would have worked is pressuring each individual broadcaster BECAUSE THEY ARE THE ONES PARTICIPATING IN THE CONTEST. Artists are just the messenger and/or representative, however you want to put it. Russia was disqualified after several broadcasters threatened to pull out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pendulum Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 1 hour ago, khalyan said: I merged the Olly thread with the main Eurovision thread. Today, nine artists released statements about Palestine, not just Olly. Artists like Bambie Thug stated in separate statements that them dropping out would result in one less pro-Palestine voice at the contest and their voices at the contest are the most necessary in protesting Israel and their participation. I came in here to post that I bought a Zari single cover tshirt off of RedBubble only to see the non-ESC locals talking about Nazis and throwing f-slurs around asrdfyulgsi 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATRL Moderator khalyan Posted March 29 ATRL Moderator Share Posted March 29 2 minutes ago, Pendulum said: I came in here to post that I bought a Zari single cover tshirt off of RedBubble only to see the non-ESC locals talking about Nazis and throwing f-slurs around asrdfyulgsi Yeah I didn’t know fully either way. I was hoping that by merging the threads, there could be more discussion based on the other acts who signed the letter and more context given to what Olly’s going through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FOCK Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 8 minutes ago, Pendulum said: Non-Eurovision viewers demanding Olly to withdraw is kinda rubbing me the wrong way. I'm all of Israel's disqualification and non-involvement at Eurovision but it is too late at this point. The contest is in a month and a half and at this point all participating countries have spent a lot of money on participation, plus full preparations like rehearsals, staging and whatnot are currently happening. You can't just pull off overnight and there is probably a contract between the national broadcaster and artist, BBC and Olly in this case. The entire point is that monetary loss & backlash, & making it clear that an association with a genocidal state is unprofitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATRL Moderator khalyan Posted March 29 ATRL Moderator Share Posted March 29 Bambie’s statement is really the best anyone can do in this situation 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FOCK Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 Great. Let's have all these artists get on stage and throw up a peace sign! That'll show 'em! Better yet, one may yell "ceasefire!” * gasps in progressive * Queue Israeli media labelling Eurovision antisemitic & the artists Hamas sympathisers. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pendulum Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 18 minutes ago, FOCK said: The entire point is that monetary loss & backlash, & making it clear that an association with a genocidal state is unprofitable. It is but what can the participants do? It's easy for you to sit behind a screen and scream at people who have no say in anything. Even if EBU genuinely wants to give Israel the boot, Germany will threaten with leaving immediately as they pay the highest annual EBU membership fee and the highest Eurovision participation fee. That would jeopardise the whole contest and EBU in general. It is too late to do anything now so the least you can do is boycott and don't watch Eurovision if you do watch it, pretend that Israel does not exist. They're already pretty ostracised from the event anyway. They won't attend any pre-parties and ceremonies due to safety concerns. 13 minutes ago, FOCK said: Great. Let's have all these artists get on stage and throw up a peace sign! That'll show 'em! Better yet, one may yell "ceasefire!” * gasps in progressive * Queue Israeli media labelling Eurovision antisemitic & the artists Hamas sympathisers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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