discussion Are biological woman really "in danger of being replaced?"

[Headlock]

12 minutes ago, HeavyMetalAura said:

 

 

 

So I’m a little on the fence about replacing the words “men” and “women” with “people who have ____.” It can erase the gendered focus of some issues. 

 

This is not a thing, it has never been a thing. You are speaking to gender-inclusive language being used in very specific, usually medical, settings. None of that is expected to be used in the real world, and it never is.

 

A very clear example: MSM aka men who have sex with men. This is the way medical professionals and researchers speak when discussing queer/male sexual health issues, as it is very obvious that not all men who have sex with other men identify as gay or as a part of the LGBTQ+, for a variety of reasons. But they still have sex with men, and therefore are impacted by issues that involve men who DO identify as gay, and therefore are grouped in when discussing demographics and trends in men’s sexual health.

 

But literally no one introduces themselves by saying, “Hi, I identify as MSM.” Because that is not the point of that term. And no one cares.

Edited May 4, 2023 by Headlock

[HeavyMetalAura]

Just now, Headlock said:

This is not a thing, it has never been a thing. You are speaking to gender-inclusive language being used in very specific, usually medical, settings. None of that is expected to be used in the real world, and it never is.

 

A very clear example: MSM aka men who have sex with men. This is the way medical professionals and researchers speak when discussing queer/male sexual health issues, as it is very obvious that not all men who have sex with other men identify as gay or as a part of the LGBTQ+, for a variety of reasons. But they still have sex with men, and therefore are impacted by issues that involve men who DO identify as gay, and therefore are grouped in when discussing demographics and trends in men’s sexual health.

It certainly is a thing? Maybe we are different demographics, but as a Gen Z I hear other Gen Zs and older people on the left using this language generally and trying to push it all the time. Just because you say they aren’t doesn’t mean it isn’t true  
 

You are indeed correct that it is more commonly used in medical settings due to genitalia and biology naturally being more of a focus there than in general conversation, but many people on the left are of the mind that in any instance - even casually - when one wants to speak about pregnancy, periods, penises, vaginas, etc in a broad sense, that “men” and “women” should no longer be used. 

[BrokenMachine]

It's so strange, also the fact that only women seem to have a problem of 'being replaced' as if it wouldn't apply the same for trans men 'replacing' biological men, but I guess those people are busy crying about how white people are being 'replaced' in mainstream media so I guess there are intolerants in both sides, they just pick different minorities to cry about 

 

But, personally I know a feminist who is sympathetic of some radical ways, and she just 'learned' how 'men' are trying to 'invisibilize' them with the transgender agenda, and it just rubs me off in the wrong way, like girl, keep fighting for your rights, but not at the expense of other minority 

 

1 hour ago, CottageHore said:

If trans women existing is all it takes to “replace women”, then the issue is a lot bigger than trans women  good God people are so insufferable these days, always wanting to be the victim when, if women are being honest with themselves, the biggest threat to their entire existence is cishet men and it has always been the case.

Basically this, rich white straight men in power are just laughing in their private jets while they see parts of the feminist movement pointing against the trans community 

[Headlock]

Just now, HeavyMetalAura said:

It certainly is a thing? Maybe we are different demographics, but as a Gen Z I hear other Gen Zs and older people on the left using this language generally and trying to push it all the time. Just because you say they aren’t doesn’t mean it isn’t true  
 

You are indeed correct that it is more commonly used in medical settings due to genitalia and biology naturally being more of a focus there than in general conversation, but many people on the left are of the mind that in any instance - even casually - when one wants to speak about pregnancy, periods, penises, vaginas, etc in a broad sense, that “men” and “women” should no longer be used. 

Are these people involved in legislating? Drafting laws? Lobbying? Because that would be actual “pushing” 

 

And what “general conversations” are you in where people are constantly taking about “pregnancy, periods, penises, and vaginas” 

[Cruel Summer]

2 minutes ago, BrentB said:

So you REALLY don't see how weird it is to have a cringe trans personality who acts painfully childish, contrived & like a whole bad caricature her videos be all of a sudden in all of these major publications conveniently during a time where anti-trans bills for the healthcare and transitioning of trans minors AND adults, are being passed, having her face on a beer can, when NOT even cisgender woman have ever had that feat, as well as shooting a TAMPON commercial, when she DON'T be bleeding down there, like for real?  That don't seem off to you at all??

Did Tampax Hire Trans Star Dylan Mulvaney to Promote Products? | Snopes.com

[Headlock]

2 minutes ago, BrentB said:

So you REALLY don't see how weird it is to have a cringe trans personality who acts painfully childish, contrived & like a whole bad caricature her videos be all of a sudden in all of these major publications conveniently during a time where anti-trans bills for the healthcare and transitioning of trans minors AND adults, are being passed, having her face on a beer can, when NOT even cisgender woman have ever had that feat, as well as shooting a TAMPON commercial, when she DON'T be bleeding down there, like for real?  That don't seem off to you at all??

This is you… defending yourself against accusations of transphobic dogwhistling?? 

[HeavyMetalAura]

Just now, Headlock said:

Are these people involved in legislating? Drafting laws? Lobbying? Because that would be actual “pushing” 

 

And what “general conversations” are you in where people are constantly taking about “pregnancy, periods, penises, and vaginas” 

Drafting laws is usually a later stage of pushing things - change often starts with the conversations we have outside of those arenas. To make it clear: I have observed many people on the left “correct” people and “remind” people to use the language I have discussed. This is a fact. That is what I refer to as “pushing” - clearly your definition of pushing is simply a matter of being to a different extent. 
 

Some examples of general conversations in which those situations are brought up:

 

”Men are such dogs - they only think with their d*cks!”

 

”I don’t know how most women deal with using a cup. I’m sticking with tampons.”

 

”It’s such a scary time to be a woman - the Roe V Wade thing really shook me.”

 

etc. These conversations happen all the time. And they could be met with “hey — not all ___ have a ___!” I’ve observed this happen many times, and I said originally argued - I believe this could potentially erase the gendered focus of some issues and I understand why some people may have a problem with it (I’m not sure I agree that it’s a problem, but the logic is there). 
 

Clearly your comments in this thread demonstrate you’re only interested in incendiary rather than respectful conversation so I’m no longer going to break this down further for you, but I hope this helped. 

[fauxtography]

23 minutes ago, BrentB said:

This isn't a dogwhistle, get a grip. It's weird and sketchy AF that Dylan's being marketed to str8 bro man's who drink beer & watch sports. Not even pop girls have ever done this b4 . And doing tampon ads when she don't be bleeding like that? Gurl We haven't even seen the likes of Laverne Cox be this heavily pushed. And many others on here agree that somethings up with the rollout of this lady. There's just too much troll energy around her. It's not sitting well & it's giving right-wing plant tbh.

Dylan was not being marketed to str8 bros, Bud Light was marketing to Dylan's followers...

 

Laverne cox is a bad comparison as well because laverne was never a chronically online tiktok influencer. Dylan has been target number one because conservative engagement is at an all time high over on Twitter and conservatives are doing what they've always done, create a satanic panic over minorities, whichever flavor of the month catches on.

[*.Digambar.*]

11 minutes ago, BrentB said:

So you REALLY don't see how weird it is to have a cringe trans personality who acts painfully childish, contrived & like a whole bad caricature in her videos be, ALL OF A SUDDEN, in all of these major publications conveniently during a time where anti-trans bills for the healthcare and transitioning of trans minors AND adults, are being passed, having her face on a beer can (even a child could tell you the riot & massive backfire that was going to ensue mixing  the sports world with trans representation, at THIS point in time) , when NOT even cisgender woman have ever had that feat, as well as shooting a TAMPON commercial, when she DON'T be bleeding down there, like for real?  That don't seem off to you at all??

Saying all of this to defend yourself yet you still come off as transphobic. 

[BrentB]

3 minutes ago, Headlock said:

This is you… defending yourself against accusations of transphobic dogwhistling?? 

Honestly, I'm not going to entertain you anymore sis. If you feel like everything's all good in the buttermilk, go on ahead, chile. But DON'T be accusing me of any type of dogwhistling without any sort of evidence. You DON'T get to derail this conversation & put that on me like that. 

 

If I feel a way about Dylan Mulvaney, then that's that. It's between me & her & it ain't got nothing to do with any dogwhistling. 

[aesthetic bih]

This is crazy that some women are thinking that since Trans people are a minority... They are acting like a quarter of the world population are trans lol

[BrentB]

4 minutes ago, *.Digambar.* said:

Saying all of this to defend yourself yet you still come off as transphobic. 

Do you consider being painfully childish, contrived & like a walking caricature a part of trans-womanhood? Did I ever equate the two as being one in the same? I'll wait.

Edited May 4, 2023 by BrentB

[BrentB]

8 minutes ago, fauxtography said:

Dylan was not being marketed to str8 bros, Bud Light was marketing to Dylan's followers...

 

Laverne cox is a bad comparison as well because laverne was never a chronically online tiktok influencer. Dylan has been target number one because conservative engagement is at an all time high over on Twitter and conservatives are doing what they've always done, create a satanic panic over minorities, whichever flavor of the month catches on.

Listen, I understand this. I heard they contacted Dylan and sent her those cans with her face on it. But whenever a brand like that (come on y'all Bud Light), which is one of the most coveted & staple brands of a particular demographic who, for the most part, DESPISE all things woke, best believe when word gets out, all those man bros are going to riot & it's just not going to do any good for everyone involved (evident with Bud Light's stocks plummeting, losing millions of dollars right now + uptick of casual transphobia)

[GraceRandolph]

2 minutes ago, BrentB said:

Listen, I understand this. I heard they contacted Dylan and sent her those cans with her face on it. But whenever a brand like that (come on y'all Bud Light), which is one of the most coveted & staple brands of a particular demographic who, for the most part, DESPISE all things woke, best believe when word gets out, all those man bros are going to riot & it's just not going to do any good for everyone involved (evident with Bud Light's stocks plummeting, losing millions of dollars right now + uptick of casual transphobia)

We're not going to get anywhere by catering to transphobes though? They don't deserve to be catered to in marketing.

[elevate]

How old are the women making the vids? I'm not super concerned about older millenials and above.

 

If younger people start indulging this kind of panic, and I don't expect that, I'd pay attention. From my observation, this seems like a very vocal and annoying minority trying to create a moral panic over nothing.

 

We can't claim to take bullying seriously and then indulge in the same online. It'll be interesting to see if Gen Z and Gen Alpha agree. I do feel many from the older gens, including millennials, are just meaner and angrier people in general. The younger gens, even the straights, just wanna live their lives. The downside is that they're apathetic about everything. 

[Headlock]

25 minutes ago, HeavyMetalAura said:

”Men are such dogs - they only think with their d*cks!”

 

”I don’t know how most women deal with using a cup. I’m sticking with tampons.”

 

These conversations happen all the time. 

 

27 minutes ago, HeavyMetalAura said:

And they could be met with “hey — not all ___ have a ___!” I’ve observed this happen many times,

This is giving “and then the whole bus clapped” energy 

[Headlock]

26 minutes ago, BrentB said:

But DON'T be accusing me of any type of dogwhistling without any sort of evidence.

 

 

Interesting you bring up the need for evidence, when you have been provided with exactly that: your point about a so-called tampon commercial is a complete lie. And not a peep from you. 

[BrentB]

2 minutes ago, GraceRandolph said:

We're not going to get anywhere by catering to transphobes though? They don't deserve to be catered to in marketing.

I just feel like brands that reached out to her & Dylan & her team should have just started off small. Like a woman's clothing brand would have been the natural fit to start off. But having her do Bud Light in this climate is just asking for the opposite effect in terms of public opinion & getting the fight for trans rights across. That's like gays doing ads for Minecraft or FIFA. 

[GraceRandolph]

Just now, BrentB said:

I just feel like brands that reached out to her & Dylan & her team should have just started off small. Like a woman's clothing brand would have been the natural fit to start off. But having her do Bud Light in this climate is just asking for the opposite effect in terms of public opinion & getting the fight for trans rights across. That's like gays doing ads for Minecraft or FIFA. 

It shouldn't matter. Menstrual products have had trans men as models, and there was no issue. Most normal people aren't concerned with whether or not a trans person is part of a marketing campaign.

[Headlock]

1 minute ago, BrentB said:

I just feel like brands that reached out to her & Dylan & her team should have just started off small. Like a woman's clothing brand would have been the natural fit to start off. But having her do Bud Light in this climate is just asking for the opposite effect in terms of public opinion & getting the fight for trans rights across. That's like gays doing ads for Minecraft or FIFA. 

The fact that you think you are making a point and are just digging your hole even deeper 

[*.Digambar.*]

25 minutes ago, BrentB said:

Do you consider being painfully childish, contrived & like a walking caricature a part of trans-womanhood? Did I ever equate the two as being one in the same? I'll wait.

Or maybe that's just who is she as a person and her personality? You're the one who assumed she's a walking caricature when shes just a trans woman living her life and apparently that's annoying to transphobes. 

[playboi]

Dylan Mulvaney set back the whole community  

 

A psy-op me thinks

[BrentB]

9 minutes ago, Headlock said:

The fact that you think you are making a point and are just digging your hole even deeper 

I feel like you know EXACTLY what I mean with a lot of my responses. I refuse to believe you're this dense. But for all intents & purposes, let me spell it out for you, like I always seem to have to for a lot of y'all 

 

While obviously a lot of gays play minecraft & watch FIFA, those brands are unfortunately not exactly launching pads for an LGBT Tiktoker's endorsement. In an ideal world, it could be, but when most of the target audience don't want to be bothered with "woke nonsense" & just want to play games/watch sports, it's best to look into better, more profitable marketing strategies. In another game, like The Sims, perhaps?!?!  I could see where a campy tiktoker like Dylan can make quite the buzz, as The Sims 4 has catered heavily into pro-LGBT content, including introducing they/them pronouns as a create-a-sim feature.

 

But I guess, since you most likely see no issue with the whole Bud Light fiasco, I say let's propose having Dylan's team contact FIFA next 

[Ryan]

All of your posts have been real problematic @BrentB. You need to think before you post. 

[suburbannature]

The ads I got for this thread are making some kind of statement