base talk 2013 and 2020: Miley/Katy/Gaga

[Mr. Stratus]

Katy/Gaga/Miley all released in 2013 and then again in 2020

The media picked up on this, and did their own articles:

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2013/11/miley-katy-gaga-statistical-breakdown

Discuss the happenings, and who do you think will win a hypothetical  final round

(in 2027)

[duybeeGAshantiGA]

2013: Katy (Roar, Prism, etc.)

2020: Gaga (ASIB, Shallow, etc.)

2023: Miley with music/Gaga with films

Edited April 27, 2023 by duybeeGAshantiGA

[Kayseri Mantisi]

Bangerz was way more better than Prism for me and it had longevity (I still listen to it) so both answers is Miley for me.

 

(She mega won again in 2023 btw)

 

Edited April 27, 2023 by Kayseri Mantisi

[B-Luke]

2013: Katy > Miley > Gaga

2020: Gaga > Miley > Katy

2023: Miley > Gaga > Katy

 

[GraceRandolph]

2013: Miley 

2020: Gaga

2023: Miley

[Dear Reader]

12 minutes ago, duybeeGAshantiGA said:

2013: Katy (Roar, Prism, etc.)

2020: Gaga (ASIB, Shallow, etc.)

2023: Miley with music/Gaga with films

pretty much this 

 

3 queens though 

[visions]

In terms of success - 

2013: Katy

2020: Gaga

2023and beyond: Miley 

 

In terms of best output musically, Miley for all. 

[Erreur2 La Nature]

2013 : Both Miley and Katy

2020 : Miley

2023 : Miley

[Xder]

 

2013 katy

 

in 2020 miley and katy did the same numbers NRO is a hit the size of midnight sky Both bigger than stupid  love... 

2020

Gaga but

Gaga (solo)=Katy=Miley 

 

[Brishka]

2013: Katy/Miley (Road and Dark Horse were bigger than We Can't Stop and Wrecking Ball, but Miley was the it-girl of that year). 
2020: Gaga (Shallow was massive and she gained a lot of acclaim with ASIB on top of scoring another #1 hit).  
2023: Miley (ESV's stats are underwhelming, but she scored a massive smash hit 16 years into her career). I don't see Katy or Gaga ever scoring huge hits again. 

 

    

Edited April 27, 2023 by Brishka

[Mr. Stratus]

For 2013
I think Katy won but lost at the same time. it was the start of her downfall. she become uncool, and tried to do a 7 minute mv like Gaga was doing but her actual artistic basis was very hollow. i guess roar and DH spoke for itself, but i think Miley was consistent commercially/aesthetically, her era died at 'Adore You'.
ARTPOP was always gonna be a decline, but she continued the messiness from 2011 this time her hype had gone, it hurt her massively. She could've planned 3 singles perfectly and done MVs (without r kelly ofcourse) 'App-DWUW-Gyp' Promo singles GUY and AURA mvs.
and AP would be doing much better now - it's interesting Gaga's universal bad album that further isolated GP was received the same as Bangerz/Prism from an acclaim perspective.

 

2020 it's very very close between Gaga and Miley
I give it to Gaga in 2020, Plastic Hearts turned out to be better in various ways (it hit the GP, stronger quality, much more longevity and set up 'flowers) but the narrative around Chromatica was fantastic. Only ATRL calls albums with a #1 song and #1 album a flop, to the GP they thought it was a smash era cause of all the good PR, it was also the most well rounded winning Grammy, highest MC score. Smile was a mess visually, panned, and she  was unable to secure a TTH position after multiple tries. Not a good showing for Katy, and also she tried to mimick the Joanne thing with Daisies.

Ultimately, flowers shows to me that these girls shouldn't be counted out 

 

Edited April 27, 2023 by Mr. Stratus

[Xder]

8 minutes ago, Mr. Stratus said:

For 2013
I think Katy won but lost at the same time. it was the start of her downfall. she become uncool, and tried to do a 7 minute mv like Gaga was doing but her actual artistic basis was very hollow. i guess roar and DH spoke for itself, but i think Miley was consistent commercially/aesthetically, her era died at 'Adore You'.
ARTPOP was always gonna flop, but she continued the messiness from 2011 this time her hype had gone, it hurt her massively. She could've planned 3 singles perfectly and done MVs (without r kelly ofcourse) 'App-DWUW-Gyp' Promo singles GUY and AURA mvs.
and AP would be doing much better now - it's interesting Gaga's universal bad album that further isolated GP was received the same as Bangerz/Prism from an acclaim perspective.

 

2020 it's very very close between Gaga and Miley
I give it to Gaga in 2020, Plastic Hearts turned out to be better in various ways (it hit the GP, stronger quality, much more longevity and set up 'flowers) but the narrative around Chromatica was fantastic. Only ATRL calls albums with a #1 song and #1 album a flop, to the GP they thought it was a smash era cause of all the good PR, it was also the most well rounded winning Grammy, highest MC score. Smile was a mess visually, panned, and she  was unable to secure a TTH position after multiple tries. Not a good showing for Katy, and also she tried to mimick the Joanne thing with Daisies.

then why do people call artpop a flop when it was number 1 and had a bigger hit than rain on me and second average hit

[Axelios]

11 minutes ago, Mr. Stratus said:

2020 it's very very close between Gaga and Miley

I give it to Gaga in 2020, Plastic Hearts turned out to be better in various ways (it hit the GP, stronger quality, much more longevity and set up 'flowers) but the narrative around Chromatica was fantastic. Only ATRL calls albums with a #1 song and #1 album a flop, to the GP they thought it was a smash era cause of all the good PR

[Alldeezy]

2013: Katy

2020: Miley

2023: Miley

 

Gaga 2009 - 2012 >>>>>>>

[Wonderland]

I have to split 2013. Katy won on the charts but Miley won in terms of overall impact on pop culture. Her antics were making global news - especially the Robin Thicke twerking incident.

 

Gaga undeniably had both in 2020 thanks to A Star Is Born.

[Mr. Stratus]

2 minutes ago, Xder said:

then why do people call artpop a flop when it was number 1 and had a bigger hit than rain on me and second average hit

when i said flop i mean decline or mixed bag. The thing is i wouldn't call witness a flop either. These are female pop albums, they don't always age well or get big hits, but hitting certain standards carry through. platinum in the US and #1 is a fine era. With AP it was all about context, don't forget that she was coming off a huge peak. Applause only hitting #4 was seen as a flop (even though its not)  because her past success.

AP is seen as the 'flop' era but she has both Joanne and chroma which performed worse or around the same, it's about narrative. Whilst 'Smile' even though its much better narrative/out of hate train, the numbers aren't salvable on any platform to do the same, nor did smile lead into an era like ASIB.

 

Witness relied a lot on bots on YT and twitter to inflate her star power. NRO felt a huge return for Katy although it was a hit its actual peaks and weeks charting were mediocre, and they abandoned it in 2019 to try to build SPS. It just didn't work out at all.

[David Smith2]

Katy perry n miley 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mr. Stratus]

12 minutes ago, Axelios said:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/hughmcintyre/2020/06/05/lady-gagas-chromatica-opens-at-no-1-in-the-uk-with-one-of-the-largest-debuts-of-the-year/

 

https://www.billboard.com/pro/lady-gaga-stupid-love-hot-100-debut/

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2020/nov/30/the-best-song-of-2020-rain-on-me-by-lady-gaga-and-ariana-grande

 

GP don't discuss albums like gays on a forum. Gaga is coming off ASIB and her songs were pushed on european radio, so yes the narrative around Chromatica was 'come back to pop'. literally no one beyond twitter gays and britney/madonna/katy stans on forums commented on the longevity. Also it was veyr nicely acclaimed too despite what the fomos tried. Thats'w ithout the grammy

 

you tried

Edited April 27, 2023 by Mr. Stratus

[Axelios]

Just now, Mr. Stratus said:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/hughmcintyre/2020/06/05/lady-gagas-chromatica-opens-at-no-1-in-the-uk-with-one-of-the-largest-debuts-of-the-year/

 

https://www.billboard.com/pro/lady-gaga-stupid-love-hot-100-debut/

 

GP don't discuss albums like gays on a forum. Gaga is coming off ASIB and her songs were pushed on european radio, so yes the narrative around Chromatica was 'come back to pop'. literally no one beyond twitter gays and britney/madonna/katy stans on forums commented on the longevity

These headlines don't matter. The GP didn't care about the albums as shown by its streaming numbers. These numbers are what reflect the real consumption and interest towards the album and they were all bad aside from ROM being a moderate streaming hit thanks to Ariana but with poor longevity and horrible radio callouts.

[k4rmabutterfly]

Why are people mentioning A Star is Born? Wasn’t it released in 2018?  Miley won in 2020, Plastic Hearts outstreamed Chromatica and she got tons of attention and virals that year. Ariana carried the Chromatica era  Katy obviously won in 2013. 

[Kayseri Mantisi]

23 minutes ago, Axelios said:

These headlines don't matter. The GP didn't care about the albums as shown by its streaming numbers. These numbers are what reflect the real consumption and interest towards the album and they were all bad aside from ROM being a moderate streaming hit thanks to Ariana but with poor longevity and horrible radio callouts.

I totally agree with you, literally no one in GP cared about Chromatica other than hearing Rain On Me on radio a few times

[Wonderland]

11 minutes ago, k4rmabutterfly said:

Why are people mentioning A Star is Born? Wasn’t it released in 2018?  Miley won in 2020, Plastic Hearts outstreamed Chromatica and she got tons of attention and virals that year. Ariana carried the Chromatica era  Katy obviously won in 2013. 

Yes, but the ripples from that film lasted years. She was up for Grammys in 2020 (including SOTY for ARUTW) and won two for Compilation Album for Visual Media and I'll Never Love Again.

 

Sure, Miley had Plastic Hearts but I think Chromatica + ASIB Grammys puts Gaga's year over the top for me.

[Mr. Stratus]

46 minutes ago, Axelios said:

These headlines don't matter. The GP didn't care about the albums as shown by its streaming numbers. These numbers are what reflect the real consumption and interest towards the album and they were all bad aside from ROM being a moderate streaming hit thanks to Ariana but with poor longevity and horrible radio callouts.

unfortunately for ATRL as much as they tried the chromatica flop narrative it didn't stick outside, her team knew and know this

She was coming off ASIB, an oscar win 9 months earlier - some people try for this their entire career!

The album is 2 ponts under universal acclaim on MC. The album itself made the top 50 year end aggregate for critics YEC. the album and single went #1, the other one went #5. Peak sand acclaim (what is TANGIBLE to the GP) are therefore well covered.

Again, go back to debuts, Chroma's 48m debut on Spotify was reported. Ofocurse an album yt gays loved by a woman over 30 was gonna have bad longevity btw and the numbers are mid yes, but GP don't look at this. they see peaks, radio, and PR. Chromatica was well covered.

 

 Not one person off forums and irl understand things beyond ive mentioned - the only negative for Chroma was the delay (which hse off-set by doing the covid fundraiser, the SL MV (which didnt really make huge negative news), and when she celebrate during the BLM uprising for Chromatica. that was nothing compared to witness livestream or being exposed for Myah Marie singing your entire album

 

As for callouts - this was a problem in the USA with all females at that time, with such bop music it was never gonna debut nicely in the USA, only her and dua were brave enough to do it - beyonce and britney sat out and bided their time. Gaga was the start of the dance trend (again) with Dua and what we see today - she wasnt following it and following females blowing up like people did in 2011/12 (and still flopped hard in both narrative and acclaim). SL remains one of gaga;s biggest radio hit in Europe

 

 

Also, don't forget the all stadium tour attached to the album. ArtRave had bad reviews and mid gross. 

Edited April 27, 2023 by Mr. Stratus

[Zaram]

35 minutes ago, k4rmabutterfly said:

Why are people mentioning A Star is Born? Wasn’t it released in 2018?  Miley won in 2020, Plastic Hearts outstreamed Chromatica and she got tons of attention and virals that year. Ariana carried the Chromatica era  Katy obviously won in 2013. 

the album who didn't even reached #1 or had a Top 10 for 2020? Sure, Joanne.

[Ratviolo]

2013: Katy > Miley > Gaga

2020(s): Gaga > Miley > Katy

 

Even taking Flowers into consideration, I would still say Gaga is in a better overall position music wise not only in 2020 but in 2023 as well