discussion Thoughts on 'digital nomads'?

[Robert]

There's been a lot of discussion online about digital nomads, people working in one country but living in another. Usually people moving from a rich but expensive country (most often the US) and moving to a less affluent country. Popular places include Mexico, Puerto Rico, Indonesia, Portugal and Spain. A lot of these countries initially welcomed digital nomads to bring more money in but an influx has led to increases in prices in some areas and frustration from locals especially as many nomads don't learn the language or partake in the local culture. I even saw some people calling it a new form of colonialism. What do the ATRL girlies think? 

[Jotham]

They're everywhere on TikTok. I cannot stand them. They come off as very entitled.

[getBusy]

Well, anyone moving to Spain expecting anything cheap is in for a big surprise lol The price difference these days is tiny. I'm from Madrid but live in NY.

[Taylena]

I'm from Portugal and yeah it's now almost impossible to rent anything decent in any of the major cities if you earn local wages.  I guess it's probably still cheaper if you come from the States but prices are skyrocketing everyday. 

[cockatoo]

I hate it. I'm sorry but I will never get on board with 100% remote working for the sake of it*. A hybrid mix of both is best imo.

 

We have one colleague who lives in another city and works fully remotely and our working relationship with him is extremely strained because of it. We have no idea what he spends his time doing most days and he refuses to engage with anything he doesn't feel like doing. It also annoys me that he gets paid the same wage as the rest of us but lives in a much much cheaper place.

 

*I do understand the need if you have disabilities ofc, but even then you don't need to work in a different country to the one you live in...

Edited April 12, 2023 by cockatoo

[Virgos Groove]

Rent prices are out of control, and it's only getting worse with inflation. Some of the offers you see on online listings are "laugh so you don't cry" material.

 

Lisbon in particular is more of a glorified AirBNB than an actual city nowadays, and things aren't much better in the rest of the country.

 

The minimum wage has always been too low, so it's completely unsustainable with these price rises.

[cockatoo]

Also surely it must feel a bit crap to pay taxes on your earnings to a country you don't even live in?  I understand a lot of these people are quite well paid so it doesn't make a difference to them but I think if I was paying for another country's healthcare/education/defence etc I'd be a bit annoyed.

[yamiyuuuu]

Don't get me started. Hate them and hate that they call themselves 'expats'.

[shyboi]

they are gentrifiers and laws should get more strict about their sneaky ways

[Domination]

They need to be deported and imprisoned.

[BrokenMachine]

Yeah, basically a new form of colonialism. Back in the Colonial era? Locals being displaced by wealthier and more powerful people than them. Now? It's basically the same, locals being displaced by a wealthier and more powerful group

 

But I wouldn't be too harsh on them since they're basically escaping from their own country because their so-called 'American dream' is in the pits and doesn't allow them to afford basic living in there anymore, but they're too blind to even notice. They would call themselves 'expats', but let's call things by their name, they're inmigrants, but they only like to apply that word to people from poor countries 

Edited April 12, 2023 by BrokenMachine

[Gladiator]

I was obsessed when I discovered some YouTube channel like 6 years ago from a guy who did remote web design and development who was a digital nomad, but I can't remember his channel anymore. 

[liver]

I mean I like the idea of living in paradise while earning a high salary from my rich country and I'll probably do the same in a couple of years but I kinda agree with the colonialism argument - just look at what Bali has become  but on the other hand, this is a result of globalization (which has more pros than cons ofc) and it's inevitable so I'm not judging anyone who does it

 

however, if you want to live in a foreign country, even if you don't pay local taxes, you should definitely learn the language and embrace the culture 

Edited April 12, 2023 by liver

[Blue Jeans]

If it hurts local people, their governments should enforce something. Even in NYC billionaires buy property where they don’t live and which drives up prices everywhere. Rent has gotten out of control. 

[ProudLBS]

46 minutes ago, Taylena said:

I'm from Portugal and yeah it's now almost impossible to rent anything decent in any of the major cities if you earn local wages.  I guess it's probably still cheaper if you come from the States but prices are skyrocketing everyday. 

the problem in Portugal aren't the digital nomads (they're not that many):

• there's a lack of new construction
• the country has turned into a theme park for tourists
• there's a large influx of people who don't mind sharing an apartment with 30 people and sleeping by shifts

Edited April 12, 2023 by ProudLBS

[EtherealCat]

theres nothing inherently wrong with them, yes some are taking advantage but its just another scapegoat for poor governance 

[BletaRexher]

They had to take gentrification to colonization levels 

[apasionata]

13 hours ago, shyboi said:

they are gentrifiers and laws should get more strict about their sneaky ways

!

[OrgVisual]

Quote

 

frustration from locals especially as many nomads don't learn the language or partake in the local culture

 

Exactly this. Met a lot in my home country back then and some are very entitled. They earn money from their richer country to live in a less affluent country then complain about why life in here (the poorer country) is not as good  

[Pendulum]

Depends. 

 

What kind of a digital nomad are we talking about? A wannabe influencer moving to Bali or Portugal or wherever and doing their remote Western-salary job, doesn't bother to learn the language and treats the place as their personal playground. Yes, governments should limit the number of people like this. 

 

But if we are talking about "digital nomads" who move to a country, have a work contract in that country, are registered with the municipality, and are paying taxes, then I don't see a problem. AS LONG AS YOU ARE RESPECTFUL. My home city is a popular destination for "digital nomads" and from what I've seen, they mostly confine themselves in the rich people's neighbourhoods. I wouldn't say that their presence is causing any inflation in the prices. I have a Dutch friend who has been living in my home city (call centre with Dutch, that's the most popular). He's trying to fully integrate himself by learning the language, exploring the country, and acquiring the culture. And then there are his colleagues that don't bother with the language, act superior because they are earning twice as much as the country's average, engage in illegal activities (drugs, bribes) and so on. That's not the way to go. 

 

But I live in a city with abnormally high rent prices. I'm a foreign student and yes, international students AND local students have driven up accommodation prices significantly. But this is not my or any other student's problem - it's the government's inability to accommodate all these students. But mind you, we're here to study.

 

Overall, any critique should be forwarded to the respective authorities and government because often they are unprepared and easily mishandle things. Annoying digital nomads won't take any initiative to leave, even when they know they are causing harm to the surrounding society. 

 

[Alldeezy]

Everything is just getting more and more overpriced. I hate it and hate those kinda things 

[scenekiller]

Being upset with them is just another distraction from the fact that all countries aren't taking care of their people, and instead letting billionaires run amok unchecked.

 

Nobody would be mad at them if countries paid their workers livable wages and taxed billionaires appropriately.

[Attitude]

I hate them and shame on the governments that cater to them and disregarding their own people. A lot of people in Mexico make less than $500 a month and are being priced out of their neighborhoods by these "nomads". They also have the audacity to haggle for cheaper prices when they're already dirty cheap. I saw a lady complaining because they were charging her $250 pesos (14 dollars) to do her bag of laundry.