Communion Posted March 30, 2023 Posted March 30, 2023 (edited) This isn't shocking in that political parties across the spectrum in the UK are less and less ideologically driven and more driven by certain political conflicts. The SNP is basically a mixture of the left, center, right, and far-right all under the guise of fighting for Scottish Independence. Even this CBP memo at parts reads like an attack ad against SNP for trying to navigate its weird alliances to keep its independence coalition intact by promoting the GRR. Driven by English-sided biases against independence and for keep Britain "intact". OP is a far right troll so I'm not sure the characteristics Is accurate in the title, as the memo at parts seems to imply they have no issue with the Welsh government trying to get people GRCs without the need for a formal gender dysphoria diagnosis: Quote 20 Meanwhile, the Welsh government has announced its intention to assist trans people to gain GRCs without a diagnosis of gender dysphoria; enhance their access to a full range of tailored services; and ‘ban all aspects’ of conversion practices. No Bill has yet been published and it is recognised that powers currently reserved to Westminster under the Wales Act may be necessary to carry out this programme in full. The UK central government has made clear it will veto any Welsh Bill which seeks to assume these reserved powers unilaterally. -- Heavily influenced by Stonewall rather than by a desire to boost the case for independence, the motivations of the Welsh government appear to be different in this fundamental respect from those of its Plaid Cymru partners and the SNP government in Scotland. But such largely reads like they're trying to seem nuanced to justify their attack on SNP; even then, the language used and the declaration that recognizing gender identity is different from recognizing a change of legal sex even without formal diagnosis reads like a distinction without a difference. It'd be fine to accuse the SNP of not understanding the logistics in that the GRR would make people have different legal sex in Scotland vs England, but their criticism of the GRR and its introduction of gender identity finally into legal language makes no sense if they then have no issue with the Welsh idea of expanding exemptions of getting a GRC without need a formal diagnosis of gender dyphoria. It reads like casual transphobia (and the side effects of doing such publicly) in order to get a cheap shot in at the SNP for its independence goals. They come off as reactionaries and seem to be rightfully getting criticism from other socialists online outside of the UK. This reiterared my belief that the "born this way" model popularized in the US in the 2000s is more effective than however gay rights were achieved in the UK based on whatever is going on in the UK because the idea that LGBT people are who they are via the (super)natural order has avoided these kinds of transphobic debates in the US outside of religious zealots. The UK reads as too far gone at this point. The US should allow for trans refugees to flee England. Edited March 30, 2023 by Communion
The Next Day Posted March 30, 2023 Posted March 30, 2023 Quote The implications of self-ID as the sole requirement for access to single-sex spaces and facilities are serious when it comes to safeguarding women and children from predatory and abusive behaviour by men who can simply declare themselves to be women. Oh they can go **** themselves just for that part. Trans people are not your ******* scapegoat for predators, go look for the cis-men in your churches.
Icarus Posted March 30, 2023 Posted March 30, 2023 Communism is an evil ideology that DESTROYED every country where it was tried in the 20th century. We left it behind and spit on it for a reason. Literally who gives a **** what edgy “Communists” think in 2023? They are bad faith individuals who should be ignored.
Communion Posted March 30, 2023 Posted March 30, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, Horizon Flame said: They’re blaming Nicole Sturgeon’s defeat in Scotland over the gender recognition bill, too. How was someone who willingly left a position "defeated"? The new SNP leader is literally more ideologically in line with Nicola than in line with the far-right TERFs of the SNP who championed the British government blocking the GRR. 1 hour ago, Miss Show Business said: This is precisely why I'm against radicalists on both ends of the political spectrum. Sis, this is politically illiterate. This has nothing to do with "extremes". The left, center-left, center, center-right, right and far-right have all doubled down on transphobia in the UK. This comment also makes no sense given that a Labour party under Corbyn would have been more pro-trans than the shift to the center that Keir Starmer has ushered in. Labour aka the left has become overwhelmingly transphobic because it pushed its left out and has shifted to the center. At this point, the only possible British party not spewing transphobia may be the Greens? Could anyone confirm? Edited March 30, 2023 by Communion
Mikeymoonshine Posted March 30, 2023 Posted March 30, 2023 Britain has a lot of communist parties and they are all trash, transphobic and right wing as hell. They are all also not very influential most British communists/socialists aren't members of any of them. You'd probably find more commies in the labour party (even now) than in any of those parties. It shouldn't be shocking that the kinds of people defending this statement also worship Stalin and support communist in name only states like North Korea. A lot of those people reacting are anti trans activists who don't support communism but are using this to try and dispell the notion that anti trans thought is mostly associated with the right. The problem is the kind of communists who believe this sort of thing share a lot of right wing views. Like they all believe "gender ideology" is a thing even though the catholic catholic church literally invented that term for the purposes of anti women's rights and later anti lgbt+ activism. They also completely misinterpret dialectical materialism which is not meant to be used in that way. Here's a good video on that topic TLDR: most British commies/socialists hate this party and don't agree with it which is why most of the people agreeing are neolibs like JK Rowling.
Mikeymoonshine Posted March 30, 2023 Posted March 30, 2023 1 hour ago, vale9001 said: why are you saying "what is wrong with the island?". In which country communism can be pro gender identity?. It's a total subversion of the materialist conception of a society. Read some history- philosophy book lol Dialectical materialism is not the same thing as regular materialism. It's not meant to be used in this way. Also the idea that being trans is not material could just as easily be used to say being gay is not material. The experience of being trans IS material reality just as the experience of being any kind of queer is. To deny that is to say all queer people are lying about their experiences. Being trans is not based on gender ideology or any kind of theory it's based on the experiences of trans people. There are theories about trans people but they aren't what being trans is. Just as the idea of biological sex does not always perfectly explain our sex characteristics no theory can perfectly explain being trans.
Ash12345 Posted March 30, 2023 Posted March 30, 2023 42 minutes ago, The Next Day said: Oh they can go **** themselves just for that part. Trans people are not your ******* scapegoat for predators, go look for the cis-men in your churches. I do think that cis men can lie about their self-ID though. Especially when there are incentives to do so ex the justice/prison system in the UK.
VeniceBeach Posted March 30, 2023 Posted March 30, 2023 46 minutes ago, Icarus said: Communism is an evil ideology that DESTROYED every country where it was tried in the 20th century. We left it behind and spit on it for a reason. Literally who gives a **** what edgy “Communists” think in 2023? They are bad faith individuals who should be ignored. This
Sazare Posted March 30, 2023 Posted March 30, 2023 4 minutes ago, Ash12345 said: I do think that cis men can lie about their self-ID though. Especially when there are incentives to do so ex the justice/prison system in the UK. What does a cis man stand to gain from lying about being trans in a prison context?
Gui Blackout Posted March 30, 2023 Posted March 30, 2023 50 minutes ago, Icarus said: Communism is an evil ideology that DESTROYED every country where it was tried in the 20th century. We left it behind and spit on it for a reason. Literally who gives a **** what edgy “Communists” think in 2023? They are bad faith individuals who should be ignored. Garbage ideology followed by the worst possible people, nothing new
The Next Day Posted March 30, 2023 Posted March 30, 2023 7 minutes ago, Ash12345 said: I do think that cis men can lie about their self-ID though. Especially when there are incentives to do so ex the justice/prison system in the UK The statement in the OP implies a causality between trans people being able to self-ID and higher risks of sexual assault. Do you agree with that?
Communion Posted March 30, 2023 Posted March 30, 2023 59 minutes ago, Icarus said: Communism is an evil ideology that DESTROYED every country where it was tried in the 20th century. We left it behind and spit on it for a reason. Literally who gives a **** what edgy “Communists” think in 2023? They are bad faith individuals who should be ignored. 8 minutes ago, Gui Blackout said: Garbage ideology followed by the worst possible people, nothing new Not lessons on morality from the "call black people derogatory slurs like different animal names" users who vote for the centrisr and right wing parties holding the same anti-trans views. You making me have to always respond with these disclaimers under your troll posts just so no one thinks you're being honest or posting truthful info.
Fevesy Posted March 30, 2023 Posted March 30, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Communion said: At this point, the only possible British party not spewing transphobia may be the Greens? Could anyone confirm? I think the Scottish Greens cut ties with the English/Welsh branches over internal party transphobic policies. So maybe just the Scottish Greens since they are a seperate entity? https://www.thenational.scot/news/19878879.scottish-greens-debate-cutting-ties-green-party-england-wales-transphobia/ https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/national/23053318.scottish-greens-vote-suspend-ties-english-party-transphobia/ Edited March 30, 2023 by Fevesy
Communion Posted March 30, 2023 Posted March 30, 2023 1 hour ago, vale9001 said: In which country communism can be pro gender identity?. Sis you're one of the "anti-trans trolls trying to make their bigotry sneaker and less detectable" being discussed in the thread on the banner. At least try to be more stealthy in your prejudices.
Mikeymoonshine Posted March 30, 2023 Posted March 30, 2023 (edited) Yeah the green party is full of transphobes too but their only MP Caroline Lucas is not anti trans. She's actually being sued by a terf in the party for some ridiculous nonsense she wasn't even involved in. Edit: actually both the former co-chairs of green party women one of whom is a terf and the other is trans are suing the party. It's a whole mess. Edited March 30, 2023 by Mikeymoonshine
bunnyeyes Posted March 30, 2023 Posted March 30, 2023 What’s wild is that all of these anti-trans statements and critics from the UK will simultaneously claim to care about the well being of trans people while using radical anti-trans dog whistles or straight up transphobic statements and disproven conspiracy theories . There would be more room for any type of debate if it wasn’t so disingenuous! And when you call them out they’ll claim “b-but I said I care about trans people.”
Robert Posted March 30, 2023 Posted March 30, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, Horizon Flame said: I mean, I knew Britain was really obsessed with the trans debate, but now it’s both sides of the isle raging over this? Even the Labour Party has come out and said they’re through touching this subject. They’re blaming Nicole Sturgeon’s defeat in Scotland over the gender recognition bill, too. Is the UK a TERF paradise now? Where are the Greens on this subject? Nicole Sturgeon wasn’t defeated, England chose to use a centuries old law to override her democratic mandate and her successor is pro-trans thankfully. Caroline Lucas (only Green MP) isn’t transphobic but many other members are. - This party is completely irrelevant and dead on arrival but the fact so many politicians would rather focus on trans people and refugees when half the country can’t afford their electric bill shows the dire state of UK (especially English) politics. Edited March 30, 2023 by Robert
AvadaKedavra Posted March 30, 2023 Posted March 30, 2023 (edited) Commies can be as bad as fascists whats new dahling. Here in my country all the commie guerillas were highly homophobic and killed so many At the end the LGBTI community we are alone. We must protect ourselves. Politicians only are usin us as tokens for their campaigns. Dont mean to be rude but UK is cursed. Is goin to the same path as The States I wonder if this was Putin plan. Edited March 30, 2023 by AvadaKedavra
SmittenCake Posted March 30, 2023 Posted March 30, 2023 5 hours ago, Communion said: Not lessons on morality from the "call black people derogatory slurs like different animal names" users who vote for the centrisr and right wing parties holding the same anti-trans views. You making me have to always respond with these disclaimers under your troll posts just so no one thinks you're being honest or posting truthful info. the expose
Harrier Posted March 31, 2023 Posted March 31, 2023 Probably brocialists. Only class is relevant!1!!1!! These people look at the 20th century and think, hmm, let's try Leninism again. They are not a source of reason. I can at least respect the American far-left for being focused on the future & evolving with the times instead of being stuck in this 20th century nonsense lmao
Communion Posted March 31, 2023 Posted March 31, 2023 (edited) 17 minutes ago, SmittenCake said: the expose Seeing people who literally vote for "trans women are men!!" Tories and who smeared Corbyn to get Keir "trans rights can't circumvent women's rights" Starmer now pretend to care about trans people is so... ??? Edited March 31, 2023 by Communion
Vrx. Posted March 31, 2023 Posted March 31, 2023 13 hours ago, Virgos Groove said: Britain really is TERF island. I thought it was a joke but it’s true
Jessie Posted March 31, 2023 Posted March 31, 2023 (edited) The Communist Party leadership were also late to denounce fascism in Britain in the 1930s alongside the rest of the political parties and press. The Battle of Cable St in 1936 against Oswald Mosley’s British Union of Fascists — when they tried to march through East London — was led by working class Jews in militant self-defence. In total over 100,000 workers stamped that **** out and curtailed that movement before it could pose greater risk. Communism isn’t defined by political parties playing an electoral game but solidarity amongst the working class while recognising the uniqueness and intersectionality of each other’s struggles. Identity politics does not clash with that basic ideology — it is that ideology. The fight back against this growing tide of extreme hate will also require similar solidarity — and that won’t come from The Communist Party leadership, just like it didn’t come then. Edited March 31, 2023 by Jessie
Betty White Posted March 31, 2023 Posted March 31, 2023 Unfortunately, this is to be expected with communism
AMIT Posted March 31, 2023 Posted March 31, 2023 27 minutes ago, Betty White said: Unfortunately, this is to be expected with communism No, it isn't. And this party is only ''communist'' by name and basically nothing else. Not surprised this is your stance, though.
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