TheLastChord Posted March 23, 2023 Posted March 23, 2023 1 minute ago, Miss Show Business said: The transphobic comments in here... As a largely LGBTQ forum, any support of this decision should be a ZTP violation. Period. This decision makes sense. Biology is a big part of sports, it's why there's a gender divide. Biological males have so many advantages over biological women, and most of these advantages do not go away after T levels drop. They're usually taller, have bigger hearts and lungs, the male bone structure is designed to withstand heavier loads, and I could go on. The alternative would be driving women out of sports entirely, which is a very misogynistic position to take. The solution for transwomen who went through puberty is not easy at all, maybe their own categories? And I understand the problems with this suggestion, given that there aren't many transwomen in sports as a whole.
Miss Show Business Posted March 23, 2023 Posted March 23, 2023 2 minutes ago, liver said: shut up Go ahead and show yourselves out. If it's making you angry it's for good reason. Most of this forum is LGBTQ. There is zero excuse for anyone here supporting this. Period.
Miss Show Business Posted March 23, 2023 Posted March 23, 2023 Just now, TheLastChord said: This decision makes sense. Biology is a big part of sports, it's why there's a gender divide. Biological males have so many advantages over biological women, No, they do not. I'm so sick and tired of hearing this. https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTRvrDsWP/
Space Cowboy Posted March 23, 2023 Posted March 23, 2023 4 minutes ago, midnightdawn said: So someone born with a condition that means the ****** doesn't develop is not a woman? Exceptions due to genetic conditions and such that have a chance of happening of like 0.001% are not a valid argument and you know it, so stop being obtuse
PoisonPill Posted March 23, 2023 Posted March 23, 2023 1 minute ago, Miss Show Business said: If you are LGBTQ and do not understand why this is wrong and transphobic... Then it should be ZTP. It's 2023. If you are LGBTQ and do not understand that sex and gender are complex and not black and white, and that many factors decide how a person develops... Well, then that's your own fault, because there are plenty within the community educating people. Trans people fought, lived, and died, so that some day gay folks would have rights such as same sex marriages. We didn't ask these trans folks to do this — but they did anyways because an attack on one of us is an attack on all of us. Period. We owe our trans brothers and sisters the dignity and respect of being educated about their struggle and being informed and educated about these matters. Period. Totally agree with this Luckily, we are all capable of holding simultaneous thoughts, and many people who support trans rights also support the preservation of the female category in competitive sports (including some trans people). Of course, it's an incredibly delicate issue with no black/white, easy answers.
Otter Posted March 23, 2023 Posted March 23, 2023 Sucks for trans athletes but it's better then things like hormone thresholds tests or the opposite in terms of removing all sex restrictions beyond self identification
liver Posted March 23, 2023 Posted March 23, 2023 2 minutes ago, Miss Show Business said: Go ahead and show yourselves out. If it's making you angry it's for good reason. Most of this forum is LGBTQ. There is zero excuse for anyone here supporting this. Period. just say you hate women and go bro
midnightdawn Posted March 23, 2023 Posted March 23, 2023 1 minute ago, Space Cowboy said: Exceptions due to genetic conditions and such that have a chance of happening of like 0.001% are not a valid argument and you know it, so stop being obtuse How convenient. Anything that doesn't suit your ideology is not valid.
Miss Show Business Posted March 23, 2023 Posted March 23, 2023 1 minute ago, liver said: just say you hate women and go bro Keep seething. You're only revealing your true ugly thoughts about this topic, clearly.
Rainy Devil Posted March 23, 2023 Posted March 23, 2023 3 minutes ago, Miss Show Business said: Go ahead and show yourselves out. If it's making you angry it's for good reason. Most of this forum is LGBTQ. There is zero excuse for anyone here supporting this. Period. Besides the biological facts? I guess that doesn't matter. 4 minutes ago, TheLastChord said: This decision makes sense. Biology is a big part of sports, it's why there's a gender divide. Biological males have so many advantages over biological women, and most of these advantages do not go away after T levels drop. They're usually taller, have bigger hearts and lungs, the male bone structure is designed to withstand heavier loads, and I could go on. The alternative would be driving women out of sports entirely, which is a very misogynistic position to take. The solution for transwomen who went through puberty is not easy at all, maybe their own categories? And I understand the problems with this suggestion, given that there aren't many transwomen in sports as a whole. Well said. I do hope there is something else prepared because if they trained and work hard, there should be a way for them to compete.
Otter Posted March 23, 2023 Posted March 23, 2023 5 minutes ago, Miss Show Business said: If you are LGBTQ and do not understand why this is wrong and transphobic... Then it should be ZTP. It's 2023. If you are LGBTQ and do not understand that sex and gender are complex and not black and white, and that many factors decide how a person develops... Well, then that's your own fault, because there are plenty within the community educating people. Trans people fought, lived, and died, so that some day gay folks would have rights such as same sex marriages. We didn't ask these trans folks to do this — but they did anyways because an attack on one of us is an attack on all of us. Period. We owe our trans brothers and sisters the dignity and respect of being educated about their struggle and being informed and educated about these matters. Period. Sure but that doesn't give us an answer to the fair competition for cis women in sport.
Headlock Posted March 23, 2023 Posted March 23, 2023 46 minutes ago, Femalien said: I don't think it's accurate to say transwomen have been banned "entirely," as it looks like the ban only applies to trans individuals who have fully gone through the puberty of their natal sex. Seemingly, someone whose transition was able to start before puberty would still be allowed to compete And yet, transphobes are also trying to ban trans children from beginning the process of transitioning as well. Seems like this isn’t about ~fairness~ at all, huh
Miss Show Business Posted March 23, 2023 Posted March 23, 2023 2 minutes ago, PoisonPill said: Totally agree with this Luckily, we are all capable of holding simultaneous thoughts, and many people who support trans rights also support the preservation of the female category in competitive sports (including some trans people). Of course, it's an incredibly delicate issue with no black/white, easy answers. Trans women make up a small percentage of all people... Therefore they would make up an even smaller number of all female atheletes. Instances where we have allowed these women to compete have shown they don't have any "advantages" over women, and their skill is completely and totally dependent on individual skill. This "debate" always boils down to the same sexist argument that women are "biologically inferior". Are they? Or have thousands of years of only men deciding biology, maybe may have helped reach this conclusion? Notice how trans men are never included in this debate. No one debates if trans men are "inferior" to their cis male counterparts and say that they should therefore compete with women. This is an attack on trans women. That's all that this is. If people actually cared about women's sports, they'd discuss the things that actually matter to female athletes: such as pay disparities compared to make athletes.
Miss Show Business Posted March 23, 2023 Posted March 23, 2023 5 minutes ago, Rainy Devil said: Besides the biological facts? I guess that doesn't matter. Educate yourself and stop validating this garbage. https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTRvrDsWP/
Headlock Posted March 23, 2023 Posted March 23, 2023 45 minutes ago, Space Cowboy said: Born with a vagi na And what about a person with XX chromosomes born intersex
Space Cowboy Posted March 23, 2023 Posted March 23, 2023 Just now, midnightdawn said: How convenient. Anything that doesn't suit your ideology is not valid. How is this an ideology Biological women are born with a va gina. That’s a fact. Exceptions may ocurr, but there are so few of those exceptions that what even is the point to even mention them in this conversation?
Miss Show Business Posted March 23, 2023 Posted March 23, 2023 1 minute ago, DoubleRainbow! said: That user fuming over a fair decision Imagine believing an exclusionary decision like this based on sh** "science" and "biology" is "fair". A joke.
Space Cowboy Posted March 23, 2023 Posted March 23, 2023 2 minutes ago, Headlock said: And what about a person with XX chromosomes born intersex
TaggedGalaxy Posted March 23, 2023 Posted March 23, 2023 24 minutes ago, Miss Show Business said: The transphobic comments in here... As a largely LGBTQ forum, any support of this decision should be a ZTP violation. Period. Where's the transphobic comments? Stop abusing the ZTP rule
Into The Void Posted March 23, 2023 Posted March 23, 2023 14 minutes ago, Miss Show Business said: No, they do not. I'm so sick and tired of hearing this. https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTRvrDsWP/ Hmm. Well that puts things in an interesting perspective
charot Posted March 23, 2023 Posted March 23, 2023 Just now, Miss Show Business said: Imagine believing an exclusionary decision like this based on sh** "science" and "biology" is "fair". A joke. The decision was based on science and biology and not just feelings so it's fair and definitely not a joke.
Mr. Mendes Posted March 23, 2023 Posted March 23, 2023 (edited) If you're a cis male, you have no right to be speaking on this issue. Period, end of story. The "biological male superiority" argument is based on shoddy science and is still a raging debate. To take any study on it as gospel when the case is certainly not closed on it is reactionary at best and discriminatory at worst. Edited March 23, 2023 by Mr. Mendes
Into The Void Posted March 23, 2023 Posted March 23, 2023 6 minutes ago, Headlock said: And what about a person with XX chromosomes born intersex How many people are actually born intersex?
PoisonPill Posted March 23, 2023 Posted March 23, 2023 1 minute ago, Miss Show Business said: Trans women make up a small percentage of all people... Therefore they would make up an even smaller number of all female atheletes. Instances where we have allowed these women to compete have shown they don't have any "advantages" over women, and their skill is completely and totally dependent on individual skill. This "debate" always boils down to the same sexist argument that women are "biologically inferior". Are they? Or have thousands of years of only men deciding biology, maybe may have helped reach this conclusion? Notice how trans men are never included in this debate. No one debates if trans men are "inferior" to their cis male counterparts and say that they should therefore compete with women. This is an attack on trans women. That's all that this is. If people actually cared about women's sports, they'd discuss the things that actually matter to female athletes: such as pay disparities compared to make athletes. I haven't heard anyone else calling females "biologically inferior" other than you. "Inferior" is a value judgment and has nothing to do with the factual reality of the anatomical and biological difference between male and female humans. Also, that Tiktok you posted as your evidence, instead reinforces the fact that male athletes who transition post-puberty gain enormous advantages and skyrocket to the very highest echelons once joining female sports.
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