discussion Leftist Commentators at TYT launch transphobic discourse over obscure medical terms

[ClashAndBurn]

8 minutes ago, Espresso said:

The problem is there's now definitive studies on the backlash to LatinX with it now being seen as linguistic imperialism and actually costing the left votes but that doesn't yet exist (unless I missed something) with this rhetoric on trans women. Until that exists I can't fully unpack this properly.

 

Given the noise this has produced Ana is clearly going to respond to this on a future episode if she hasn't already in her timeline which I don't have the energy to look up.

 

This may sound stupid but what do you suggest in terms of casual vs medical conversation? Serious question. There's so many layers to this.

Casual conversation, you should address people how they want to be. Which is often not as dehumanizing and animatronic-sounding terms like "birthing bodies." Medical conversation referring to people as such as fine because it is descriptive in terms of appropriate healthcare they should receive.

 

There isn't any data on "birthing bodies" and "people who menstruate" affecting electoral results because they've only started seeing mainstream use within the last year. Not enough time for it to spread, and most people outside of the terminally online probably had never heard of the term before Ana's tweet received 14 million views and interactions. Meanwhile, LatinX really started getting widely recognized after the Pulse Nightclub Shooting in Orlando happened... on LatinX Night. And we've had six years of data points and Latino voters shifting Republican worth of data since then.

[Vermillion]

7 minutes ago, brooklyndaddy said:

Mine is a genuine question. Do y’all suggest that we vote red?

The baseline of what people are willing to settle for and what defines a progressive no one can agree on in the left, nevermind this forum. 

 

What Communion has suggested in terms of a general election vote (not primary for which I've veered far left in the last seven years) he and I both agreed to disagree on a while ago as to what will actually produce change in terms of pushing the Overton Window further left. I disagree with the chaos theory Susan Sarandon famously promoted on Chris Hayes' show in 2016 that I equate letting someone further to the right rise to power to in a general election.

 

But, in the last few years I've come to understand that saying "voting write-in, staying home, and third party in a general is a wasted vote" is a cheap shot that lacks nuance or humility given the level of endemic suffering Democrats haven't been answering properly or aggressively enough since FDR. There's way too much to unpack with that. 

 

Communion is not suggesting voting red and that's disingenuous framing it's not worth extrapolating from two ambulance-chasing political streaming celebrities. Whether what he's suggesting instead would lead to more red candidates I'll let you decide. 

[Redstreak]

3 hours ago, vale9001 said:

I suppose all of you are men telling a woman how she should like to be defined

 

men are gonna men i guess. 

This has convinced me, I will now start listening to Abby Shapiro and Candace Owens on what really being a woman is like

[velocity]

The fact that so many of you cannot wrap your head around the fact that women don't want to be reduced to the body parts that have been the reason for their opression since the dawn of time is insane

 

If women demand to be called that, you call them that. End of story

[ClashAndBurn]

8 minutes ago, velocity said:

The fact that so many of you cannot wrap your head around the fact that women don't want to be reduced to the body parts that have been the reason for their opression since the dawn of time is insane

 

If women demand to be called that, you call them that. End of story

The fact that you can't wrap your head around the fact that these are obscure terms that aren't widely used by anyone outside of the medical profession is insane.  

 

Anyone who would walk up to a woman in public and call them a "birthing body" directly to their face would get slapped as hard as possible. Professional colloquialisms written on a memo leaked to the public in order to incite a moral outrage aren't actually hurting anyone in the real world while trans people in the United States are literally being denied healthcare and driven to higher suicide rates by policies passing through state legislatures.

[jqnetto]

damn, imagine being reduced to your body parts.

 

people with uterus truly have it way harder. We don't really see cis men / transwomen referred as people with ***** or whatever. 

[TiaTamera]

3 hours ago, JoanneActII said:

can this discourse die already? it's so 2019. inclusivity of trans and intersex people harms nobody and doesn't erasure your gender grow the **** up (which is insanely ironic that these people say this while happily erasing trans people's gender for their comfort). plus there's cis women who can't menstruate, give birth or who don't have a uterus and targeting healthcare at them when it doesn't affect them is wasting their time. 

So what do we call a cis women that can’t menstruate or give birth? A biological female? No cause I heard that was offensive too because it’s saying that biological females are “natural” while trans women are not naturally female (they literally aren’t). AFAB is so dumb because you cannot un-assign it.  The argument that “biological” and “natural” female is offensive when the only way to get a “sex change” is by chemicals and surgery is comical. There’s nothing natural about that. And it’s not offensive to say, it’s literally the truth.

 

the gender is all about how a person feels not about organs, sex is about organs and people keep on flip flopping between the two. It should be AGAB (girl) not female. And yes the semantics are important. 

1 hour ago, JoanneActII said:

The terms aren't even used for trans women at all, they're used to include trans men, nonbinary people and intersex people ffs. arguing the terms are made up when all language is made up is pedantic. highlighting the differences between cis and trans people does not harm anybody, erasing trans people from discussions about medical care causes real harm. 

also you are clearly "highlighting their differences" by calling cis women just women while calling trans women (which is two words not one) and not just calling them women aswell. 

Why not just call them females? That’s what they are. And with intersex people the term is called….intersex and most of the time only one reproductive organ works. A person is either a male, female, or intersex (normally with only one reproductive organ working anyways).

 

there’s no need to say “person that menstruates” or “birthing person” or even worse, “chest feeder” (as if chest and breast aren’t different, as if men don’t have breast). Let’s start calling it chest cancer instead of breast cancer! Because breast cancer is gender exclusive of men, oh wait it is not. What happens if a cis woman calls herself a woman and someone corrects her and says “person who menstruates” is she supposed to tell that person she cannot menstruates? If she supposed to disclose her health issues? 

2 minutes ago, velocity said:

The fact that so many of you cannot wrap your head around the fact that women don't want to be reduced to the body parts that have been the reason for their opression since the dawn of time is insane

 

If women demand to be called that, you call them that. End of story

I have yet to see someone describe men as “people who ejaculate” or “person who uses right hand to jack off”. There’s only been a discourse to change how we describe women when we can just say women. “But I don’t identify as a woman” okay so then don’t call yourself that?

 

Ima start calling men people with sperm 

[jqnetto]

3 minutes ago, ClashAndBurn said:

The fact that you can't wrap your head around the fact that these are obscure terms that aren't widely used by anyone outside of the medical profession is insane.  

 

Anyone who would walk up to a woman in public and call them a "birthing body" directly to their face would get slapped as hard as possible. Professional colloquialisms written on a memo leaked to the public in order to incite a moral outrage aren't actually hurting anyone in the real world while trans people in the United States are literally being denied healthcare and driven to higher suicide rates by policies passing through state legislatures.

So you agree the term is weird and reprehensible? Why exactly are you outraged at the woman in the OP for not wanting to be called that then? 

[TiaTamera]

4 minutes ago, ClashAndBurn said:

The fact that you can't wrap your head around the fact that these are obscure terms that aren't widely used by anyone outside of the medical profession is insane.  

 

Anyone who would walk up to a woman in public and call them a "birthing body" directly to their face would get slapped as hard as possible. Professional colloquialisms written on a memo leaked to the public in order to incite a moral outrage aren't actually hurting anyone in the real world while trans people in the United States are literally being denied healthcare and driven to higher suicide rates by policies passing through state legislatures.

You’d be surprised how many people are trying to make them widely used terms and that’s what people are debating about, stopping it from being used outside of the medical field. 
 

cisgender and transgender are fine. We don’t need all these other terminology (outside of the medical practice).

[Betty White]

1 hour ago, Espresso said:

I disagree with Communion still on some points generally on this forum but both of these responses are....

 

I'm just going to let him respond because, yikes.

 

How is it yikes? That member said men shouldn't tell women how to define what a woman is and Communion, who disagrees with that member and Ana, posts a Tweet of a woman agreeing with Ana and disagreeing with him. His post makes no sense

[ClashAndBurn]

2 minutes ago, jqnetto said:

So you agree the term is weird and reprehensible? Why exactly are you outraged at the woman in the OP for not wanting to be called that then? 

Because she's the one who is generating an outrage over an absolute nothing-burger. Nobody in real life that is serious is using this term. Except AOC, apparently, but she's arguably a deeply unserious politician who has lost a lot of her credibility over the years already. She also erases the objective need for those terms and where they are appropriate.

 

Again. Genocidal rhetoric is being hurled at trans people on a DAILY basis and this is what Ana Kasparian decides to focus her energy on.

 

5 minutes ago, TiaTamera said:

You’d be surprised how many people are trying to make them widely used terms and that’s what people are debating about, stopping it from being used outside of the medical field. 
 

cisgender and transgender are fine. We don’t need all these other terminology (outside of the medical practice).

As I said above, much like AOC, those people are deeply unserious and there's a reason that the left is dying, if not already dead, in much of the Western world.

[Trex]

The left should focus on economic issues and stop focusing on stuff like this

[velocity]

11 minutes ago, ClashAndBurn said:

The fact that you can't wrap your head around the fact that these are obscure terms that aren't widely used by anyone outside of the medical profession is insane.  

 

Anyone who would walk up to a woman in public and call them a "birthing body" directly to their face would get slapped as hard as possible. Professional colloquialisms written on a memo leaked to the public in order to incite a moral outrage aren't actually hurting anyone in the real world while trans people in the United States are literally being denied healthcare and driven to higher suicide rates by policies passing through state legislatures.

Except medical settings aren't obscure places and women are being refered to as such in publications and by doctors as well as in general. If it was in fact obscure nobody would know what you're talking about.

 

'Aren't actually hurting anyone' - except that they actually are Clearly women are hurt by being reduced to their sexual body parts and are speaking out against the misogyny but atrl user ClashAndBurn says it doesn't matter so it doesn't. How the **** are 'birthing persons' not beind denied healthcare in the US?

 

The absolute clownery lmfao

[velocity]

13 minutes ago, TiaTamera said:

I have yet to see someone describe men as “people who ejaculate” or “person who uses right hand to jack off”. There’s only been a discourse to change how we describe women when we can just say women. “But I don’t identify as a woman” okay so then don’t call yourself that?

 

Ima start calling men people with sperm 

I have actually seen an article online that refered to women as 'people with uteruses' while in the same breath calling men just men

 

We should

[Communion]

1 hour ago, Betty White said:

You do realise Kari Lake is agreeing with Ana so how is this proving your point?

Because Kari Lake is a ******* fascist, proving Ana's stupidity to have someone like that agreeing with her. ******* duh. 

[brooklyndaddy]

1 hour ago, Espresso said:

The baseline of what people are willing to settle for and what defines a progressive no one can agree on in the left, nevermind this forum. 

 

What Communion has suggested in terms of a general election vote (not primary for which I've veered far left in the last seven years) he and I both agreed to disagree on a while ago as to what will actually produce change in terms of pushing the Overton Window further left. I disagree with the chaos theory Susan Sarandon famously promoted on Chris Hayes' show in 2016 that I equate letting someone further to the right rise to power to in a general election.

 

But, in the last few years I've come to understand that saying "voting write-in, staying home, and third party in a general is a wasted vote" is a cheap shot that lacks nuance or humility given the level of endemic suffering Democrats haven't been answering properly or aggressively enough since FDR. There's way too much to unpack with that. 

 

Communion is not suggesting voting red and that's disingenuous framing it's not worth extrapolating from two ambulance-chasing political streaming celebrities. Whether what he's suggesting instead would lead to more red candidates I'll let you decide. 

I understand the point you’re making in theory but in practice (reality) the only other option besides voting blue is… voting red. Unless you want your vote essentially discarded.

[Communion]

34 minutes ago, TiaTamera said:

I have yet to see someone describe men as “people who ejaculate” or “person who uses right hand to jack off”.

95% of your posts is blatant transphobia not worth addressing, but to highlight when you're blatantly wrong:

 

- People with prostates

- People with testes 

 

Both just as used in clinical settings. You will struggle to lookup info for cancer screenings and not see either. 

[Betty White]

7 minutes ago, Communion said:

Because Kari Lake is a ******* fascist, proving Ana's stupidity to have someone like that agreeing with her. ******* duh. 

Ok, thanks for confirming your post literally had nothing to do with the member you were replying to lmao

[Communion]

1 minute ago, Betty White said:

Ok, thanks for confirming your post literally had nothing to do with the member you were replying to lmao

Sis, the posting restriction you had just lifted. Are you sure being a transphobic troll is worth the bans?

[TaggedGalaxy]

[Betty White]

17 minutes ago, Communion said:

Sis, the posting restriction you had just lifted. Are you sure being a transphobic troll is worth the bans?

I didn't have posting restrictions recently, it's just that you beef with so many members here and start so much drama that you can't even keep track of who is who 

 

Anyway, please stick to the topic and please don't quote people to write something that literally has nothing to do with what they were saying 

[Vermillion]

I leave this thread more confused than I was when I entered it. 

 

I'll wait for the studies on attempted adoption into general discourse of other terms and it's likely backlash and in the meantime monitor legislation because on this topic there's too many other fires to put out at the moment. Legislation coming downstream from cultural rhetoric is too broad of a topic for me to tackle. 

[liver]

the WOMAN in the op is absolutely right

[commander]

Ana is a center-leaning commentator at best. In fact TYT might as well rebrand itself as a center-leaning news shows. They are just giving upper class white millennials with a hot take on social issues every now and then. 

 

 

[Bears01]

No issues with what she said. She’s right actually