base talk ATRL March Madness 2023 | WINNER!

[pride4jc1222]

Might as well go for pure chaos at this point.

 

"It's My Life" No Doubt vs. "Don't Leave Me This Way" Thelma Houston

"Torn" Natalie Imbruglia vs. "Girls Just Want to Have Fun" Cyndi Lauper

 

 

[dreamsicle]

Don't Leave Me This Way

Torn

[superben]

"It's My Life" No Doubt

"Girls Just Want to Have Fun" Cyndi Lauper

[Staryu]

"It's My Life" No Doubt vs. "Don't Leave Me This Way" Thelma Houston

"Torn" Natalie Imbruglia vs. "Girls Just Want to Have Fun" Cyndi Lauper

[supaspaz]

2 hours ago, andresg770 said:

Compare that to No Doubt going in with the intention of recording an 80s cover and deciding on "It's My Life" because they all loved it.  Or DJ Sammy creating arguably second "essential" version of a beloved song that still gets AC-radio play (second and third, if you also count the "Candlelight Mix").  Now THOSE are "indispensable covers" to me.

I had never even heard of either of those songs before. In fact, it was only years later that I found out “Heaven” was a cover. So I guess it’s all subjective!

[supaspaz]

1 hour ago, Reverie said:

Oh Heaven hive lost....

We did. I really tried by pushing it to a tiebreaker, too…

[Cannon]

It’s My Life

Girls Just Want to Have Fun

[Kool_Aid_King]

It's My Life

Torn

 

Also tryna find the original "release" of GJWHF and all I see is that it was an unreleased Demo by an artist  

[Mr. Duff]

Heaven nooooo. Would have been great if it was Torn vs Heaven. Oh well.

 

No Doubt

Natalie

 

for the finals!

[prézli]

"It's My Life" No Doubt vs. "Don't Leave Me This Way" Thelma Houston

"Torn" Natalie Imbruglia vs. "Girls Just Want to Have Fun" Cyndi Lauper

[Frozen99]

11 hours ago, Tusk said:

It’s My Life

Torn

[touya kinomoto]

Thelma and Natalie

 

i just know Natalie has to win it all

Edited April 9, 2023 by touya kinomoto

[Marla Singer]

"It's My Life" No Doubt vs. "Don't Leave Me This Way" Thelma Houston

"Torn" Natalie Imbruglia vs. "Girls Just Want to Have Fun" Cyndi Lauper

[supaspaz]

7 hours ago, Kool_Aid_King said:

Also tryna find the original "release" of GJWHF and all I see is that it was an unreleased Demo by an artist  

 

[Kool_Aid_King]

1 hour ago, supaspaz said:

 

Right, but this was just a demo that never had an official release, from what I read. Would that make Beautiful by Xtina or If I Were a Boy by Beyonce covers? 

[supaspaz]

9 minutes ago, Kool_Aid_King said:

Right, but this was just a demo that never had an official release, from what I read. Would that make Beautiful by Xtina or If I Were a Boy by Beyonce covers? 

Actually, I would consider “If I Were a Boy” a cover. BC Jean tried to release that song and her label rejected it, before Beyoncé eventually picked it up. I’ve had BC Jean’s (superior) version in my iTunes library since like 2008.

 

There’s certainly a difference between a song that an artist creates for themselves that Cyndi Lauper finds four years later and turns into a breakthrough hit and a demo that a songwriter is shopping around to labels.

[Kool_Aid_King]

3 minutes ago, supaspaz said:

Actually, I would consider “If I Were a Boy” a cover. BC Jean tried to release that song and her label rejected it, before Beyoncé eventually picked it up. I’ve had BC Jean’s (superior) version in my iTunes library since like 2008.

 

There’s certainly a difference between a song that an artist creates for themselves that Cyndi Lauper finds four years later and turns into a breakthrough hit and a demo that a songwriter is shopping around to labels.

That's an interesting point. I guess I moreso see covers as renditions of songs that have already been released. I know Prince has a few songs that he recorded but were found or sent to an artist. Like The Glamorous Life, Manic Monday or Love Thy Will Be Done. 

 

So would you consider "The Monster" by Eminem a cover too (Kinda?) 

[supaspaz]

7 minutes ago, Kool_Aid_King said:

That's an interesting point. I guess I moreso see covers as renditions of songs that have already been released. I know Prince has a few songs that he recorded but were found or sent to an artist. Like The Glamorous Life, Manic Monday or Love Thy Will Be Done. 

 

So would you consider "The Monster" by Eminem a cover too (Kinda?) 

It’s complicated and nuanced if the original song is unreleased. Frankly, I didn’t even realize that was the case with Robert Hazard’s “Girls Just Want to Have Fun,” because I’ve always just known it to be a cover. But I think there can be some accounting for intention.

 

What is the situation with “The Monster”? I’m not familiar with that (or the “Beautiful” situation either).

[Kool_Aid_King]

17 minutes ago, supaspaz said:

It’s complicated and nuanced if the original song is unreleased. Frankly, I didn’t even realize that was the case with Robert Hazard’s “Girls Just Want to Have Fun,” because I’ve always just known it to be a cover. But I think there can be some accounting for intention.

 

What is the situation with “The Monster”? I’m not familiar with that (or the “Beautiful” situation either).

Bebe had a demo, she wanted to release. Label sold it to Eminem, and they actually kept her "woohooo woohooo's" on the song (Which she famously said live along with "Cause Rihanna couldn't hit those high notes" and got skulldragged  )

 

Linda Perry wanted to release Beautiful for herself and recorded it (not sure if it was leaked or a version is out), but Xtina begged for it. 

 

Same thing happened with Consideration by Rihanna, she coaxed SZA into giving it to her. 

 

Absolutely lots of nuance to this topic. Another interesting that happened a few times was when two artists would get the same song... and they'd be called covers but it was clearly just shopped around and two artists took it.

 

 

 

 

[supaspaz]

4 hours ago, Frozen99 said:

Is this your vote?

[supaspaz]

14 minutes ago, Kool_Aid_King said:

Absolutely lots of nuance to this topic. Another interesting that happened a few times was when two artists would get the same song... and they'd be called covers but it was clearly just shopped around and two artists took it.

 

 

 

 

I kind of like both. But Jamie probably outsold.

[andresg770]

37 minutes ago, supaspaz said:

But I think there can be some accounting for intention.

And this is what I mean when I distinguish between "Girls" and "Torn" and "It's My Life" and "Heaven."  I didn't actually listen to the original by Talk Talk until years later, but I knew No Doubt's was a cover because they were telling the press about how they chose the song and whatnot (and it kept being retold on shows like the VH1 Top 20): https://www.mtv.com/news/bo0dza/no-doubt-to-tell-fans-its-my-life

 

DJ Sammy also told the press about the song being a cover: https://www.mtv.com/news/fteo53/dj-sammy-reaches-heaven-with-a-little-help-from-bryan-adams

 

But with the other two, as far as I'm aware, that wasn't the case.  I just don't feel like they were intentionally presented as "covers" to the world, so it's hard for me to see them as rightful winners of the whole tournament.

[touya kinomoto]

well just because Natalie and her label didn't explicitly mention that Torn was a cover doesn't make it less of a cover. All previous iterations of the song were all singles. Torn was a single by different artists in Denmark and Norway.

[Kool_Aid_King]

19 minutes ago, andresg770 said:

And this is what I mean when I distinguish between "Girls" and "Torn" and "It's My Life" and "Heaven."  I didn't actually listen to the original by Talk Talk until years later, but I knew No Doubt's was a cover because they were telling the press about how they chose the song and whatnot (and it kept being retold on shows like the VH1 Top 20): https://www.mtv.com/news/bo0dza/no-doubt-to-tell-fans-its-my-life

 

DJ Sammy also told the press about the song being a cover: https://www.mtv.com/news/fteo53/dj-sammy-reaches-heaven-with-a-little-help-from-bryan-adams

 

But with the other two, as far as I'm aware, that wasn't the case.  I just don't feel like they were intentionally presented as "covers" to the world, so it's hard for me to see them as rightful winners of the whole tournament.

Torn I consider to be a real cover, just cause of all the versions and stuff. There were official releases, singles etc. all of that. Natalie's version wasn't marketed to be a cover cause the other versions didn't really make it big in the main markets. 

 

Girls seems like a stretch IMO but I see where supa is coming from where there's some reasoning behind it. 

[supaspaz]

1 hour ago, andresg770 said:

And this is what I mean when I distinguish between "Girls" and "Torn" and "It's My Life" and "Heaven."  I didn't actually listen to the original by Talk Talk until years later, but I knew No Doubt's was a cover because they were telling the press about how they chose the song and whatnot (and it kept being retold on shows like the VH1 Top 20): https://www.mtv.com/news/bo0dza/no-doubt-to-tell-fans-its-my-life

 

DJ Sammy also told the press about the song being a cover: https://www.mtv.com/news/fteo53/dj-sammy-reaches-heaven-with-a-little-help-from-bryan-adams

 

But with the other two, as far as I'm aware, that wasn't the case.  I just don't feel like they were intentionally presented as "covers" to the world, so it's hard for me to see them as rightful winners of the whole tournament.

I meant the intention of the original being its own distinct song, rather than a demo for other artists.

 

To me, how something is marketed doesn’t really make a difference as to whether it’s a cover, though it should be noted that Cyndi flipping the perspective from male to female has always been part of the story of “Girls Just Want to Have Fun.” So by that metric, it certainly qualifies.

 

As for “Torn,” there is simply no objective definition by which it’s not a cover.