news Russia and China join forces against ‘Evil’ US

[Solaria]

36 minutes ago, Communion said:

 

I think China's culture is right for Chinese people and if they're happy with it, we should largely be too. Most Americans wouldn't want to undergo regime change or sanctions or have their economy destroyed no.matter what criticisms of their government have. 

 

 

China barely has any freedom of speech. How do you TRULY know its citizens are happy with the current regime? There is no way we know what they are actually thinking because they aren’t allowed to speak up.

 

I would love for you to show studies on what Chinese people have said about their regime that actually show what they think, not what they potentially might say out of fear of being persecuted by their government.

[IBeMe]

The US is indeed evil AF but so are Russia and China (and tbh most countries…)

Edited March 22, 2023 by IBeMe

[Communion]

5 minutes ago, Love Again said:

China barely has any freedom of speech.

Didn't Chinese protests just get COVID restrictions loosened? Have similar protests worked in America to end police shootings or get universal healthcare?

[Pheromosa]

TikTok is so getting banned now 

[Communion]

8 minutes ago, Bears01 said:

someone who claims to care about helping people would be disgusted by this, no? 

Are you suggesting every country who trades with America is endorsing the ongoing genocide of African Americans? Or that every country who buys Israeli humus is endorsing the genocide of the Palestinans? Seems extreme of a stance to hold. Could you link to examples of countries calling for isolating America's economy for their human rights violations?

[Sesame]

Jesus god he’s everywhere. 
 

 

Just move there already babe

[Peroxide]

1 hour ago, Communion said:

So you believe large economic influence is a precursor to global cultural influence? Are there any examples of such?

 

I think China's culture is right for Chinese people and if they're happy with it, we should largely be too. Most Americans wouldn't want to undergo regime change or sanctions or have their economy destroyed no.matter what criticisms of their government have. 

 

How does it make sense to suggest we don't like how Chinese peopoe want to live and thus we must stop their country from thriving? How does blocking hungry from fallen and wages from rising helping cultural disagreements we have? Is China being exploitative in any way? And in ant way America has a leg to stand on and criticize?

 

China growing doesn't threaten my American way of life. I'm genuinely interested to know why you believe it threatens yours. 

China is an ethnonationalist fascist state. Their long term goal is no different than the US… let’s be critical of both.

 

Their human rights violations are completely  egregious and warrant scrutiny.

 

[wastedpotential]

27 minutes ago, Communion said:

Didn't Chinese protests just get COVID restrictions loosened? Have similar protests worked in America to end police shootings or get universal healthcare?

Yes, it was particularly noteworthy that that happened, since the last time people tried protesting en masse in China, they were run over with tanks 

 

Something, need I remind you, that the people of China are, for the most part, blissfully unaware of because of the incredibly repressive censorship laws 

 

As for protests in the US not having an impact, that's just been bad luck and special interests. After the protests in 2020, there were several changes made to police forces across the US, but obviously it hasn't been enough. From what you're saying, I guess you've just given up hope that things will change, which seems like a really sad state of being. If you want to go somewhere without police shootings and with universal healthcare, why don't you try one of the camps in Xinjiang? They don't have to use guns there since they have to keep the bodies pristine for the organ harvesting. 

[Cain]

1 hour ago, Intuition said:

You really don't know much about either country, do you?

 

2 hours ago, Dephira said:

Good luck booking that end of racism you speak of in China and Russia

 

4 hours ago, Habibro said:

Another ATRL’r who doesn’t know anything about world conflict running their mouth. What a surprise

Not the girls getting pressed over a joke  all three have committed extreme atrocities against humanity, whether within their borders or outside of them 

 

I’m not saying one is worse than the others, but the US is still funding genocide with its ties to Israel and systematically murders its own citizens of color, so **** them too

[Bears01]

4 minutes ago, wastedpotential said:

Yes, it was particularly noteworthy that that happened, since the last time people tried protesting en masse in China, they were run over with tanks 

 

Something, need I remind you, that the people of China are, for the most part, blissfully unaware of because of the incredibly repressive censorship laws 

 

As for protests in the US not having an impact, that's just been bad luck and special interests. After the protests in 2020, there were several changes made to police forces across the US, but obviously it hasn't been enough. From what you're saying, I guess you've just given up hope that things will change, which seems like a really sad state of being. If you want to go somewhere without police shootings and with universal healthcare, why don't you try one of the camps in Xinjiang? They don't have to use guns there since they have to keep the bodies pristine for the organ harvesting. 

@Communion will (as usual) deflect and bury his head in the sand, and will probably scream “WITCH HUNT” to these basic facts you so eloquently spilled we love White New Jersey men who Stan the CCP 

[QueenB]

33 minutes ago, Communion said:

Didn't Chinese protests just get COVID restrictions loosened? Have similar protests worked in America to end police shootings or get universal healthcare?

Oh yes I'm sure protests worked for covid restrictions just like it worked so well for hong kong!

 

The comments in this thread are disgusting, America has problems yes, but we are not rounding up 1 million+ Uyghurs muslims in labor camps to "Re-educate" them. 

[Sesame]

4 hours ago, Hot Volcano said:

But is it though? In Russia and China you dont have to pay for health services and universities are free. What can I do with being gay openly if I have to spend a fortune on these things?

Despite all the shortcomings of the US, at least we have somewhat democratic elections. Putin and Xi literally just repealed policy that limited terms recently so they can be leader for life.  Not to mention the imprisonment of political opposition and war hungry IMPERIALISM from both countries regarding Ukraine and Taiwan. 
 

Plus, you can criticize your government all you want here, which is something the other two can’t say. A famous Russian singer, critical of Putin, just died earlier this week under strange circumstances. A certain member here named after a religious rite would be imprisoned immediately if she was in her favorite country **** talking it the way she does about her current country. 

Edited March 22, 2023 by Sesame

[Communion]

16 minutes ago, Peroxide said:

China is an ethnonationalist fascist state. Their long term goal is no different than the US

So again, what gives the US the right to try and halt their growing economic prosperity?

[Communion]

4 minutes ago, QueenB said:

 but we are not rounding up 1 million+ 

Correct. The current US prison population is actually double that, sitting at 2M, representing the largest prison population respective of population size in the world. 

[Communion]

15 minutes ago, wastedpotential said:

Yes

So protests DO happen and DO work in China, but China's growing economic prosperity should be blocked (and this be led by the US) because you believe that you as an American have more innate freedom than Chinese people because you can hold protests that...don't acheive anything?

[Communion]

17 minutes ago, QueenB said:

Just like it worked so well for hong kong!

I mean, if they were able to peacefully assemble without any deaths (correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe figures have 0 people dying of police brutality in Hong Kong for said year, or at least in the single digits), that seems like it worked well. Especially when compared to the pervasive police brutality found in the US that killed 1.2k Americans last year:

 

Do you believe America's time would be better spent restructuring it's prison and police system than trying to ensure the Yuan doesn't keep growing in value against the Dollar?

 

Edited March 22, 2023 by Communion

[wastedpotential]

9 minutes ago, Communion said:

So protests DO happen and DO work in China, but China's growing economic prosperity should be blocked (and this be led by the US) because you believe that you as an American have more innate freedom than Chinese people because you can hold protests that...don't acheive anything?

I'm enjoying the multiple times in this thread where you've quoted just one word or phrase of my post because you didn't want to deal with anything else I said. 

 

As for this, I believe we should block Chinese economic prosperity for the genocide in Xinjiang to the same degree that we choose block Russian economic prosperity for the invasion and mass-casualty events in Ukraine, but that's not happening. The only relevant economic blocks that have been put into place by the US thus far are over semiconductors, which I think is just an action being taken by the government because it's popular both across the US and in Washington to hate China. I think that as an American, yes, I have more freedoms than a Chinese person, because I can protest as much as I want and won't get arrested, so long as I do it civilly and don't start rioting or trespassing. That's more than the average Chinese person can say, hence why the covid protests (which began because a government official had ordered hundreds of people be literally welded into a building because they had covid, and then that building burned down with the covid patients trapped inside, which is not something you're seeing in the US) were such a big deal. Protests on a nationwide scale happen a few times a decade in the US (Occupy Wall Street, Black Lives Matter in 2014 and 2020, March For Our Lives, Tea Party, Women's March etc etc all happening in the past few years), whereas these recent covid protests in China were the first at that scale seen in over 30 years. 

Edited March 22, 2023 by wastedpotential

[QueenB]

12 minutes ago, Communion said:

Correct. The current US prison population is actually double that, sitting at 2M, representing the largest prison population respective of population size in the world. 

Glad we live in a country where those numbers are public knowledge, as are the conditions of the prisons, and we as a country can freely critique our politicians to make changes to lower that number! Especially being privileged enough where we can freely discuss this on the internet! 

 

Also, it's not "double" China has 1.6 million citizens in prison (that they reported) the camps they use to "re-educate" they don't count because they were "closed" in 2019 (despite satellite intelligence, leaked chinese government documents, and etc. whoopsie!) 

[Communion]

Just now, wastedpotential said:

I believe we should block Chinese economic prosperity 

Oh God. So you are an American chauvinist. It's giving Pete Buttigieg style "the US must still shape the world in our image". Sis, your ideology is a relic of white supremacists. The multipolar world is here and you're not going to convince 90% of Americans having the cost of goods double is worth redoing the horrors of Vietnam. 

 

Do you realize you sound like David Frum? Are you trying to intern at NED and orchestrate the next invasion of Iraq?

[wastedpotential]

4 minutes ago, Communion said:

Oh God. So you are an American chauvinist. It's giving Pete Buttigieg style "the US must still shape the world in our image". Sis, your ideology is a relic of white supremacists. The multipolar world is here and you're not going to convince 90% of Americans having the cost of goods double is worth redoing the horrors of Vietnam. 

 

Do you realize you sound like David Frum? Are you trying to intern at NED and orchestrate the next invasion of Iraq?

You're doing it again, quoting the only bits you can respond to. It makes you look foolish and weakens your arguments, since everyone can still see everything I wrote and you chose to ignore. If you would bother reading the rest of the sentence I wrote, I believe that economic sanctions should be applied against all genocidal states in order to dissuade them from committing crimes against humanity (and yes, that includes Israel). I don't think that makes me a white supremacist, nor does that me a supporter of the war in Iraq. Stop trying to put words in my mouth, as yet again, it makes you look foolish. 

Edited March 22, 2023 by wastedpotential

[Communion]

5 minutes ago, wastedpotential said:

I believe that economic sanctions should be applied against all genocidal states in order to dissuade them from committing crimes against humanity

So you agree that the largest human rights violator, the United States of America, should face economic sanctions from most of the world's superpowers and it be economically ostracized. 

 

Sounds like the first step to delegitimiizing a human rights violator as prolific as the US would be to diversify the global economy and remove the US from having a monopoly on global economic power. 

 

For someone who claims to care about human rights, you seem incredibly invested in ensuring that a human rights violator as powerful as the US remains the world's #1 economic power (and thus unsanctoinable) by demanding every other power who challenges it, like China, be suppressed for the benefit of the American economy. 

Edited March 22, 2023 by Communion

[Specter]

Well, this is an alliance of convenience that has been "in the making", for lack of a better phrase, for quite a while.  It's not surprising. 

 

China's foreign policy is always so myopic. Not only are they legitimately hated by the neighbours (and no, to brush this aside with just "ethnic resentment" is inaccurate) and the one neighbour they're cozying up to is leading a failed, brutal attempt at an invasion that has outed itself as militarily incompetent. So all the pre-invasion essays about Russia being the military muscle to China's economic might is, well, beyond unfounded now... 

 

I also don't exactly get the well, "self-interest" argument. It makes sense in a few contexts - for instance India, which hilariously has like more than 50% of its entire military equipment from Russia, yeah you can't cut it out immediately. China's trade prospers with the West, and though Russia is a big market, it is peanuts compared to others. Then there's also no skirting around that money trading hands under "multi polar economic prosperity" is going to the rape and murder of Ukrainians. 

 

It doesn't work when the US says "we're just committed to our allies in the middle east" and the allies are uh flattening Yemen or literally stealing Palestinian land. it doesn't work now.

 

The only reasonable argument I see is that given the fact the sheer breadth of the  RU-CN border, neither can really afford hostility. That, and any discord amongst the two would just serve Western interests, so perhaps mutual prosperity is desirable aa a deterrence alone. But by the time the Ukraine fiasco is over, Russia will be even worse off than now. 

[Peroxide]

32 minutes ago, Communion said:

So again, what gives the US the right to try and halt their growing economic prosperity?

I’m not talking about the US halting their economic prosperity… I’m saying China’s government sucks ass.

 

Lets call a spade a spade.

[Communion]

9 minutes ago, Peroxide said:

I’m not talking about the US halting their economic prosperity

But that's the topic of the thread and the Chinese-Russian summit? I mean, if you wanna bash any government, do whatever you want, sis! Do whatever you want. You had just quoted me for a post about a topic you don't particularly want to talk about so I'm just...confused. 

Edited March 22, 2023 by Communion

[wastedpotential]

2 minutes ago, Communion said:

So you agree that the largest human rights violator, the United States of America, should face economic sanctions from most of the world's superpowers and it be economically ostracized. 

 

Now I'm always happy to debate you in good faith, but this is 100% factually incorrect and I would love to see what source you got this from. Right now that title certainly goes to Russia. It is not a current policy goal of the United States to invade a country and force as many of its residents into becoming refugees and then to move through and summarily execute every single person who remained behind. It is not a current policy goal of the United States to systematically imprison, sterilise, dehumanise, and execute every single member of an ethnic group. Those have been policy issues of the US in the past, and that's something which I, and every decent American, am deeply ashamed of, but right now, on March 22nd, 2023, the United States is not the largest human rights violator. There are certainly egregious human rights violations occurring in the United States right now and that's something that must be improved and that I do believe will be improved, but there's no elected official in Washington right now trying to plan out how to best commit human rights violations. 

 

7 minutes ago, Communion said:

Sounds like the first step to delegitimiizing a human rights violator as prolific as the US would be to diversify the global economy and remove the US from having a monopoly on global economic power. 

 

As for this... no. That's not how the economy works. There is literally no way to make this happen, because, even if the US government DID want to redistribute economic power away from itself and into the rest of the global economy, it does not wield enough control over private businesses to make it happen. Plus, that sounds like a really good way to destroy the global economy. 

 

9 minutes ago, Communion said:

For someone who claims to care about human rights, you seem incredibly invested in ensuring that a human rights violator as powerful as the US remains the world's #1 economic power (and thus unsanctoinable) by demanding every other power who challenges it, like China, be suppressed for the benefit of the American economy. 

Where have I said any of these things? I have no personal stake in the position of the US economy in the global pecking order (though as a well informed individual I do generally think that the current status of the US economy is an inevitability of a million small factors coming together, which I'd be happy to discuss at a later point). I have no problems with powers who are not currently committing human rights violations rising to challenge American hegemony. I would be perfectly happy to see a non-genocidal Brazil, Indonesia, India, Japan, Mexico, Nigeria, Germany, or whoever else reach a point where it could economically challenge the US. For the same economic reasons mentioned above, I don't think that's particularly likely, but I have no issues with it. I guess the closest competitor to the US economically that isn't currently committing a genocide is the EU, and I've lived in the EU for the past three years without feeling like demanding its economy be suppressed for the benefit of the US. Stop bullshitting and come to the table with an actual valid point next time. And please, for the love of god, stop taking **** I say out of context.