GhostBox Posted March 18, 2023 Posted March 18, 2023 4 hours ago, meangreen11 said: Exactly! It's moving more slowly than some want it to, but it IS moving. As much as the far-left wants to just flip a switch and suddenly everyone is accepted and valued with no strings attached and no backlash, that just is NOT going to happen. You have to take small victories and keep pushing forward steadily, even if it takes longer. We are now further back than we were a few years ago. Exactly.
GhostBox Posted March 18, 2023 Posted March 18, 2023 3 hours ago, Mr.Marvelous said: Yea that's definitely as harmful as literal Nazism That campaign has damaged the progressive cause for years 💀
Brando Posted March 18, 2023 Posted March 18, 2023 5 minutes ago, Letemtalk said: Oh no, people made fun of them. Is that considered worse than neo-nazis marching in the streets and an insurrection, or about the same? Just a quick reminder, the GOP examples I gave were supported by the elected Republican candidate and actual elected President of the United States - these are not the worst examples, they are mainstream in the Republican party. Just look what happened to Liz Cheney when she took a anti-insurrection stance. The GOP proved that she was the outsider and the GOP examples I gave were much closer to mainstream. If anything I should have used more extreme examples for the Republicans. In most western nations, many of those left wing policies I mentioned, like public funded healthcare, are considered mainstream policies supported by both the centre left and centre right parties. But in the US, the Democrats do everything possible to make sure any potential presidential candidate who advocates for those very mainstream (in most countries) things is branded as an extremists and will never become president. The United States has two right wing parties, one centre right and the other far right. What is this "return to the middle" you are talking about? I don't support the GOP, but it's not fair to single out their worst weeds and say we're good here on the left. If I could select the president from the last primaries I'd pick Bernie. All I'm saying is, it's good to be considerate of the views of both sides and move towards progress together. The left however hijacked social media and corporate agenda, so the right is pushing back really hard against the worst instances on the left, which the right wing media is happily using to their advantage to rally them behind their candidates, whose views also spiralled into extreme craziness.
Communion Posted March 18, 2023 Author Posted March 18, 2023 (edited) 16 minutes ago, JustLikeHoney said: You act like all democrats view defund police the same way. Some people want no law enforcement. Who? The Democratic Party is an *organization*. It is not the voters who vote for these people, but the members of said organization who ask to be voted into office. This org has no requirement to listen to the people who vote for it in these things like "elections". What members of the Democratic party "want no law enforcement"? That the actual people Biden is attacking in his own party are measurably to the right of their voter base (the people and activists you and others have decided to fallaciously attack - "oooh! pronouns!!" ) shows that his claims are even more absurd. Even the Democratic Party is too right-wing to function. What "far left"? 16 minutes ago, JustLikeHoney said: Biden isn't talking about sensible things like Healthcare for all Yes, he is: Edited March 18, 2023 by Communion
ClashAndBurn Posted March 19, 2023 Posted March 19, 2023 21 minutes ago, Brando said: I don't support the GOP, but it's not fair to single out their worst weeds and say we're good here on the left. If I could select the president from the last primaries I'd pick Bernie. All I'm saying is, it's good to be considerate of the views of both sides and move towards progress together. The left however hijacked social media and corporate agenda, so the right is pushing back really hard against the worst instances on the left, which the right wing media is happily using to their advantage to rally them behind their candidates, whose views also spiralled into extreme craziness. The worst thing the left ever did was become adversarial to the police and call for redirecting of their funding towards other beneficial programs (Defund) in the wake of high-profile slayings and lynchings of black people. Which... the police already hated the Left anyway, and would often get away with killing leftists in cold blood with no outcry whatsoever from the broader community. Meanwhile, the right takes issue with police because they protected the Capitol when they stormed it, believing the delusion that election was stolen from them. The equivocations on this from both you and Joe Biden on this are actually really disturbing.
Letemtalk Posted March 19, 2023 Posted March 19, 2023 On 3/19/2023 at 12:47 PM, Brando said: I don't support the GOP, but it's not fair to single out their worst weeds and say we're good here on the left. If I could select the president from the last primaries I'd pick Bernie. All I'm saying is, it's good to be considerate of the views of both sides and move towards progress together. The left however hijacked social media and corporate agenda, so the right is pushing back really hard against the worst instances on the left, which the right wing media is happily using to their advantage to rally them behind their candidates, whose views also spiralled into extreme craziness. Social media is run by billionaire capitalists Mark Zuckerberg and Elon Musk. The "left hijacked social media" is just a right wing talking point. I'd rather not select the worst weeds from the GOP, but as long as they keep supporting Trump and Ron DeSantis over people like Liz Cheney, I'm not sure where I'm meant to find these good weeds. Before someone points out that Liz Cheney isn't exactly centre right either, I think this quote puts it best. Quote Even someone as arch-conservative as Dick Cheney's daughter is now considered too liberal by many Republicans. Considering incitement of violent insurrection an impeachable offense is now problematic in some GOP circles. https://www.salon.com/2021/02/02/why-arch-conservative-liz-cheney-is-now-considered-too-liberal-for-some-gop-extremists_partner/ People keep saying that the left should move further right to meet in the middle ground, but this middle ground in the GOP no longer seems to exist. The real thing that "pushes voters further to the right and into the hands of people like Trump", are when the government cares more about rich people that lost some money in a banking collapse. But less about the people affected by this Ohio Railway crash and environmental disaster.
Communion Posted March 19, 2023 Author Posted March 19, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, ClashAndBurn said: The worst thing the left ever did was become adversarial to the police and call for redirecting of their funding towards other beneficial programs (Defund) in the wake of high-profile slayings and lynchings of black people. Which... the police already hated the Left anyway, and would often get away with killing leftists in cold blood with no outcry whatsoever from the broader community. Meanwhile, the right takes issue with police because they protected the Capitol when they stormed it, believing the delusion that election was stolen from them. The equivocations on this from both you and Joe Biden on this are actually really disturbing. ! Left-wing activists: *protest cops building a warfare training facility* The far-right cops: *murder activists sitting down, their hands open and up begging them not to shoot, to where bullets entered their palms and face* The right-wing Dem apparatus, that Biden leads: "These things are the same". Edited March 19, 2023 by Communion
If U Seek Amy Posted March 19, 2023 Posted March 19, 2023 I hate that whatever people refer to the "far left" it is like only including the most insane people of the party they found on some news post. While most people aren't even far left and just actually left, it just seems far left because its America. But "far left" people just want things like equal rights/protections, free healthcare, free college, etc. Like that being "extreme" to people will always be insane to me. While they are okay with our insane military budget approved yearly for some reason.
GraceRandolph Posted March 19, 2023 Posted March 19, 2023 I’m so tired of this false dichotomy. I’m glad it seems this corporate rhetoric is not working with the gp like it did it in 2016.
Bang Up Posted March 20, 2023 Posted March 20, 2023 Tea. Extremists have no place in this country. Both sides are the same, am I right??? That's what progressives always tell me. Extreme leftists and their demands regarding how people should act are why there's been so much blowback against trans people.
RunUpDoneUp Posted March 20, 2023 Posted March 20, 2023 Period, king! I can't tell you how often the left has tried to control my life and tell me what I can and can't do with my body! They won't even let me go to the hospital without going broke! They turned my son into a school shooter and made me get fired because I launched apologetics to my black coworker about slavery! They're out of hand!
AMIT Posted March 20, 2023 Posted March 20, 2023 Biden is a ******* *******. Scum like him deserve the absolute worst. Disgusting low life piece of ****!
suburbannature Posted March 21, 2023 Posted March 21, 2023 On 3/19/2023 at 6:18 PM, GraceRandolph said: I’m so tired of this false dichotomy. I’m glad it seems this corporate rhetoric is not working with the gp like it did it in 2016. Yep, it's much-peddled false dichotomy by both right-wingers and centrist Democrats hoping to cast doubt on those on the left end of the spectrum via otherism.
ClashAndBurn Posted March 21, 2023 Posted March 21, 2023 23 hours ago, Bang Up said: Tea. Extremists have no place in this country. Both sides are the same, am I right??? That's what progressives always tell me. Extreme leftists and their demands regarding how people should act are why there's been so much blowback against trans people. “A lefty was mean to me on Twitter, so I guess I have no choice but to call for the eradication of transgenderism from society!”
Headlock Posted March 21, 2023 Posted March 21, 2023 On 3/18/2023 at 2:22 PM, meangreen11 said: Didn't say that. It's what dialed it up to the point it is now. They'd just begun to even tolerate the thought of gays and lesbians and this new movement scared them away. It's a marathon, not a sprint, and they got pushed to be too progressive too quickly. Now they're reverting course and passing anti-LGBT measures with enthusiasm because they're scared. And WHY exactly are you worrying about and placating to the ~feelings~ of these people?
Headlock Posted March 21, 2023 Posted March 21, 2023 On 3/18/2023 at 2:02 PM, Trent W said: The far-left is more associated these days with communism and the 4000 genres people make up every day. The fact that you are equating this to literal neo-Nazis advocating for the genocide of trans people
Headlock Posted March 21, 2023 Posted March 21, 2023 On 3/18/2023 at 6:57 PM, Brando said: You are picking the worst examples on one side and the best examples on the other. The right feels like they are not listened to, they are constantly gagged and made fun of. That pushes them further right and into the hands of people like Trump. The US Politics needs to return to the middle or it will break the country and will have serious consequences for the rest of the world. The left also needs to telegraph more clearly what their main policy positions are and not get caught in culture wars by simply denouncing the craziest ideas on the extreme left instead of trying to dodge those issues or be afraid to offend anyone by not supporting them. Literally what is equivalent on the "far-left" to literal ******* NAZIS
MoonGoodandHappy Posted March 21, 2023 Posted March 21, 2023 14 hours ago, AMIT said: Biden is a ******* *******. Scum like him deserve the absolute worst. Disgusting low life piece of ****! Why are leftist so agressive omg ? Spoiler Like what the hell
Aethereal Posted March 21, 2023 Posted March 21, 2023 6 minutes ago, Headlock said: The fact that you are equating this to literal neo-Nazis advocating for the genocide of trans people Neo Nazis want to genocide the Jews too. But most of them are not Republicans. They consider the whole government as Jewish-controlled and refuse to vote for any big party.
Headlock Posted March 21, 2023 Posted March 21, 2023 On 3/18/2023 at 7:38 PM, The Next Day said: I didn't think you agree with them, but I also think the assimilation argument is, well, not very convincing to say it nicely. What I get is that you propose for minorities to "tone it down" until the conservatives and right-wingers had enough time to get comfortable with giving minorities the same rights as everyone else. Black people just need to act more "white", gays need to be less sexual, trans people shouldn't perform or even be seen in public, all of this will get us to the "neutral ground", right? Cause that's what the right can tolerate. Minorities can exist but they can't express their identity cause that's what makes the right "uncomfortable". But if we show them that our identity is non-threatening, they will soon accept us. And now the truth: The right is umcomfortable not because of identity issues, but because of power issues. Minorities demand the same access to power and resources as the most powerful demographic. And they are successful, THAT causes the growing backlash. Gone are the times where white straight men were the only ones who had power in their hands, now all kinds of people can influence the public. And how did they manage that? By FIGHTING for public acceptance, fighting for power, not catering to the people that can barely tolerate them. This is what scares the Republicans and right-wing extremists cause the moment they have to give up parts of their power is the moment where their "tolerance" ends and they start to fight back to defend their power status. Assimilation in this case is like trickle-down economy: If the powerful grow more powerful (cause they get their will after all if minorities shut up), the less powerful will gain power as well. Does it really work that way tho? With all due respect to your opinion, but if trans people are banned from receiving the medical help they need to transition or the topic of racism is banned from school curriculums or drag shows are threatened by armed protestors who want to lynch gay people, I can't think of any "neutral ground" to approach these people, I don't know what a compromise could look like. Again, if someone says to you "I want you to deny who you are because it makes me uncomfortable", would you ask "Ok, what can I do so you can tolerate my existence again?" (cause we both agree acceptance is out of the question) or would you say "**** off!" and live your life they way you want? Pin this to the top of the thread
Headlock Posted March 21, 2023 Posted March 21, 2023 1 minute ago, Aristotle said: Neo Nazis want to genocide the Jews too. But most of them are not Republicans. They consider the whole government as Jewish-controlled and refuse to vote for any big party. Is... is this supposed to be a defense?
Aethereal Posted March 21, 2023 Posted March 21, 2023 2 minutes ago, Headlock said: Is... is this supposed to be a defense? Defense from what? I agree that far right is insanely evil and nothing compared to far left. I was just stating a fact.
Headlock Posted March 21, 2023 Posted March 21, 2023 2 minutes ago, Aristotle said: Defense from what? I agree that far right is insanely evil and nothing compared to far left. I was just stating a fact. ...and neo-Nazis are... also far-right
Aethereal Posted March 21, 2023 Posted March 21, 2023 Just now, Headlock said: ...and neo-Nazis are... also far-right Sweetheart. I was not defeding Neo Nazis or the far right. I was just stating that most of them are not Republican. Read it again. I agree with you.
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