news Biden attacks progressive Dems, says it's time to end "extremes in both parties"

[Reginald]

50 minutes ago, Lara Croft said:

But we currently have the most diverse, liberal cast and crew in the White House in the history of America! How’s that going for dismantling systemic white supremacy? 
 

Very slowly, and if we stop pushing for progress it won't go any further, especially considering how loud and voracious the magas are. Lowering our collective voice ,for centrist appeal, will have us back at square one by 2028. The Right's problem is their own to fix, it's not up to left-leaning voters to give up their ideology just so R-leaning centrists will join us. 

Edited March 18, 2023 by Reginald

[bad guy]

Have any of these left "extremists" killed anyone yet? The last major mass shooting was done by a right-wing extremist/domestic terrorist (like every mass shooter basically) so please someone break it down for me how they are comparable? I'm very curious how advocating for workers and human rights is the same as murdering people of different races/sexualities/genders. So confused! 

[meangreen11]

17 minutes ago, The Next Day said:

So it's the fault of the minorities that the Republicans are doing their best to oppress them? "We were starting to tolerate (not accept) your existence, but you talking about gender made us so uncomfortable that we will threaten you if you publicly display any non-heterosexual lifestyle. Oh and muslims can go **** themselves too." Republicans are very scared, that I'll agree with. But that's not the problem of the "non-conforming" (non-white, non-heterosexual) people who just want to exist in peace like everyone else.

 

If you're attacked for being who you are, do you let them beat you up (cause you're afraid they'll beat you up even harder if you fight back and hopefully they'll see that this is wrong someday) or do you defend yourself?

In the Republicans eyes? Yes, exactly. And that's what's driving them - every problem is always the fault of a minority group. It's not actually the minority's fault, obviously, but it is to them. And there's a difference between defending yourself and trying to force someone to accept you. Those are not the same thing, and if you're still having to defend yourself, you can forget about them respecting you for a while if ever. They don't actually accept any minority group, they just get to a point where they don't feel comfortable to say so out loud. We have to get to a neutral ground where they aren't attacking trans and non-binary people before we can even think about them having any sense of empathy or acceptance. Tolerance comes first, as sad as that is.

 

Don't mistake me saying the Left needs a better strategy as me agreeing with the Right. I won't pretend to have a perfect fix for the issue, but I know based off what I hear from my conservative family and coworkers their political views are currently fueled by this nonexistent threat of trans people and drag queens, the economy/taxes, the police, and thinly veiled reasons that equate to "the minorities are getting too uppity."

[Brando]

36 minutes ago, Peroxide said:

List all the things the “far left / progressives “ are advocating for which are harmful - now tally that list up with the far right… 

Like others have said the extreme left these days is associated with unreasonable views on gender, sex, education and similar subjects. They attack anyone who doesn't subscribe to their views and label them transphobic, NB-phobic, homophobic, racist etc. That pisses people off and turns them away from other core issues. And even if the leaders on the left don't propose those views, they are afraid to say anything to squash them down, so they riding with them by default. 

 

The LGBTQ community went from asking for acceptance to demanding submission to every single wild idea that crosses anyone's mind. There's no filter for anything. No framework. No any kind of agreed criteria for anything. If anyone dreams up of something it must be the law of the land and the rest of the society must fall in line. So there's a natural pushback from it. People don't like being called those things, so they find refugee on the right. The extreme-left is ruining it for everyone one else. 

[Hallad173]

1 hour ago, Thickorita said:

This you?

 

 

https://classic.atrl.net/forums/showthread.php?p=18805537#18805537

 

 

Better "far-left" than a right-wing racist.

Wtf?!?!?!? Sickening. 

[JustLikeHoney]

LOL. Are you kidding me. 

45 minutes ago, Peroxide said:

List all the things the “far left / progressives “ are advocating for which are harmful - now tally that list up with the far right… 

Defunding the police is just one off the top of my head.  

[meangreen11]

31 minutes ago, Peroxide said:

The gender / sexuality debate has been a left vs right talking point since forever… it’s only since trans people started to get a little attention they decided to make it a major issue.

 

You are focusing on a micro issue that impacts less than 1% of the population, that being said people getting their knickers in a twist over inclusive language or just simply acknowledge the fact NB people exist is high-key bizarre.

 

Let’s look at all the other issues / stances the far left advocates for. Being a single issue voter never leads to anything fruitful… especially when that “issue” centres around making trans people boogie men… which will inevitably come back to haunt the rest of the queer community.

It's 100% the extra attention (and even celebration) of trans and NB people that's the issue now, I agree. As tiny as the micro issue actually is, it is disproportionately important to the far-right and not a "micro" issue for them. To them, it's a core issue and is even embedded in their religion (whether or not their book actually says anything about it). There's no logic behind their stances, only knee jerk reactions from things that make them feel uncomfortable.

 

I do think the NB movement poured fuel on the fire though. The moment neutral pronouns and fluidity entered the picture is when all hell broke loose and it became open season on queer people at large, since they're always lumped together. Acknowledging that doesn't mean agreeing with it.

 

There's actually a few far-left policies people on the right would get behind if they didn't have a "liberal" label, like universal healthcare and increased gun control. We're already seeing it with legal marijuana.

[Mr.Marvelous]

22 minutes ago, JustLikeHoney said:

LOL. Are you kidding me. 

Defunding the police is just one off the top of my head.  

Yea that's definitely as harmful as literal Nazism

[Happylittlepunk]

I don’t think the far right and far left are equally the same. 
 

The problem with the far left as someone who identifies as social democrat. I believe the problem is when the far leftest refuse to be rational and insist everyone should use gender pronouns perfectly  and terms like Latin-x, and make it rule of law in one day and if you don’t do it perfectly you are label racists, sexist, homophobic etc. which is terrible and is no way to move society forward. Another is the toxic social justice warrior behavior online and even irl the concept of policing cultural styles or language of anyone outside there own circle needs to stop. I had ppl tell me why I call myself latino/Hispanic and want to dictate how I can express myself within my own culture.  And honestly I find it annoying how I constantly need to explain to non-Latinos that nobody within the Latin community calls themselves Latin-x a term created by white Harvard student elites.  
 

even though far leftest can be annoying seriously speaking 90% of extremism that actually puts society in danger in the last 10 years like gun violence, women rights, gay rights, education, economic policy, poc civil rights have been more harmful and dangerous coming from the far-right. 

[ClashAndBurn]

4 hours ago, Thickorita said:

This you?

 

 

https://classic.atrl.net/forums/showthread.php?p=18805537#18805537

 

 

Better "far-left" than a right-wing racist.

Gui Blackout teas

[Letemtalk]

One side created an insurrection to overthrow the government and has neo nazis marching in support of their two main potential presidential candidates. The other side is advocating for Universal Health Care and gun control policies similar to the majority of western nations, along with protecting the environment, and fair treatment of minority groups.

 

Biden: "extremes in both parties"

[Communion]

2 hours ago, Brando said:

Like others have said the extreme left these days is associated with unreasonable views on gender, sex, education and similar subjects. They attack anyone who doesn't subscribe to their views and label them transphobic, NB-phobic, homophobic, racist etc. That pisses people off and turns them away from other core issues. And even if the leaders on the left don't propose those views, they are afraid to say anything to squash them down, so they riding with them by default. 

 

The LGBTQ community went from asking for acceptance to demanding submission to every single wild idea that crosses anyone's mind. There's no filter for anything. No framework. No any kind of agreed criteria for anything. If anyone dreams up of something it must be the law of the land and the rest of the society must fall in line. So there's a natural pushback from it. People don't like being called those things, so they find refugee on the right. The extreme-left is ruining it for everyone one else. 

 

1 hour ago, Happylittlepunk said:

I don’t think the far right and far left are equally the same. 
 

The problem with the far left as someone who identifies as social democrat. I believe the problem is when the far leftest refuse to be rational and insist everyone should use gender pronouns perfectly  and terms like Latin-x, and make it rule of law in one day and if you don’t do it perfectly you are label racists, sexist, homophobic etc. which is terrible and is no way to move society forward. Another is the toxic social justice warrior behavior online and even irl the concept of policing cultural styles or language of anyone outside there own circle needs to stop. I had ppl tell me why I call myself latino/Hispanic and want to dictate how I can express myself within my own culture.  And honestly I find it annoying how I constantly need to explain to non-Latinos that nobody within the Latin community calls themselves Latin-x a term created by white Harvard student elites.  
 

even though far leftest can be annoying seriously speaking 90% of extremism that actually puts society in danger in the last 10 years like gun violence, women rights, gay rights, education, economic policy, poc civil rights have been more harmful and dangerous coming from the far-right. 

Y'all both outing yourselves as hating trans people when Biden is criticizing members of his party - people responsible for crafting legislation - and all you can cite to defend his gross, inaccurate comments is "I don't like changing social norms where misgendering people is now bad!!!" 

[Brando]

1 minute ago, Communion said:

 

Y'all both outing yourselves as hating trans people when Biden is criticizing members of his party - people responsible for crafting legislation - and all you can cite to defend his gross, inaccurate comments is "I don't like changing social norms where misgendering people is now bad!!!" 

I said nothing of the sorts. Here's your typical example of the extreme left person who is super eager to brand and shame and corner anyone, including allies, for even the slightest disagreement of any of their beliefs. I'm supportive of trans and NB people, and believe that gender is a social construct and a spectrum. Just not supportive of the wildest ideas that some people push with absolutely no filter or framework. That doesn't make me transphobic though. 

[Brando]

9 minutes ago, Letemtalk said:

One side created an insurrection to overthrow the government and has neo nazis marching in support of their two main potential presidential candidates. The other side is advocating for Universal Health Care and gun control policies similar to the majority of western nations, along with protecting the environment, and fair treatment of minority groups.

 

Biden: "extremes in both parties"

You are picking the worst examples on one side and the best examples on the other. The right feels like they are not listened to, they are constantly gagged and made fun of. That pushes them further right and into the hands of people like Trump. The US Politics needs to return to the middle or it will break the country and will have serious consequences for the rest of the world. The left also needs to telegraph more clearly what their main policy positions are and not get caught in culture wars by simply denouncing the craziest ideas on the extreme left instead of trying to dodge those issues or be afraid to offend anyone by not supporting them. 

[Gaia]

5 hours ago, Brando said:

Very true. The left completely lost their mind. Their craziness drives the right further away. So we end up with two absolutely batsh*t crazy sides who can't and won't hear each other. 

 

[Communion]

6 minutes ago, Brando said:

I said nothing of the sorts. Here's your typical example of the extreme left person who is super eager to brand and shame and corner anyone, including allies, for even the slightest disagreement of any of their beliefs. I'm supportive of trans and NB people, and believe that gender is a social construct and a spectrum. Just not supportive of the wildest ideas that some people push with absolutely no filter or framework. That doesn't make me transphobic though. 

You can't even name the ideas you say exist. 

 

Again, what legislative policy introduced by Democrats are you claiming "went too far"?

[Sazare]

[Communion]

2 hours ago, JustLikeHoney said:

Defunding the police is just one off the top of my head.  

1) What Democrats ran on defunding the police?

2) How has criminal justice reform benefited from two right-wing parties thinking the solution is more cops?

[Sesame]

I’m so tired of OLD ass politicians who grew up in the decades where living and thriving was so easy making policy NOW. They’re so out of touch with the reality of today, and they don’t care because they’re already set. They own homes where the value has absolutely skyrocketed since their purchase (far exceeding inflation changes), they have pensions and retirement benefits from the unions they worked for that have now been stripped away, and are coasting of their Medicare benefits that the younger generation might not even see come their own retirement. These people literally have no regard for future generations because they won’t be around to deal with the fallout and ramifications of it. 
 

Biden really just needs to fall over and croak because I don’t know if I can bring myself to vote for him again. 

[Communion]

5 hours ago, Brando said:

advocating the most bizzare things in the world 

 

3 hours ago, Brando said:

ssociated with unreasonable views on gender, sex, education and similar subjects

 

demanding submission to every single wild idea that crosses anyone's mind. 

 

9 minutes ago, Brando said:

The US Politics needs to return to the middle

 

denouncing the craziest ideas on the extreme left 

So there's... ideas... about... things... that are... wild.. but you can't recall what these wild crazy ideas.. about stuff and things... are, but you know that these ideas about things are what caused your entire politics to change.

 

[Brando]

23 minutes ago, Communion said:

 

 

So there's... ideas... about... things... that are... wild.. but you can't recall what these wild crazy ideas.. about stuff and things... are, but you know that these ideas about things are what caused your entire politics to change.

 

I don't feel comfortable naming anything by names here on atrl because people like you would immediately run to HQ to complain about all sorts of phobias and declare that they feel very unsafe here until mods feel forced to do something about it. So ye, I said what I said. Take what you may from it. I know I will never change your mind, so I'd rather not talk about it with you specifically 

[The Next Day]

3 hours ago, meangreen11 said:

In the Republicans eyes? Yes, exactly. And that's what's driving them - every problem is always the fault of a minority group. It's not actually the minority's fault, obviously, but it is to them. And there's a difference between defending yourself and trying to force someone to accept you. Those are not the same thing, and if you're still having to defend yourself, you can forget about them respecting you for a while if ever. They don't actually accept any minority group, they just get to a point where they don't feel comfortable to say so out loud. We have to get to a neutral ground where they aren't attacking trans and non-binary people before we can even think about them having any sense of empathy or acceptance. Tolerance comes first, as sad as that is.

 

Don't mistake me saying the Left needs a better strategy as me agreeing with the Right. I won't pretend to have a perfect fix for the issue, but I know based off what I hear from my conservative family and coworkers their political views are currently fueled by this nonexistent threat of trans people and drag queens, the economy/taxes, the police, and thinly veiled reasons that equate to "the minorities are getting too uppity."

I didn't think you agree with them, but I also think the assimilation argument is, well, not very convincing to say it nicely. 

 

What I get is that you propose for minorities to "tone it down" until the conservatives and right-wingers had enough time to get comfortable with giving minorities the same rights as everyone else. Black people just need to act more "white", gays need to be less sexual, trans people shouldn't perform or even be seen in public, all of this will get us to the "neutral ground", right? Cause that's what the right can tolerate. Minorities can exist but they can't express their identity cause that's what makes the right "uncomfortable". But if we show them that our identity is non-threatening, they will soon accept us.

 

And now the truth: The right is umcomfortable not because of identity issues, but because of power issues. Minorities demand the same access to power and resources as the most powerful demographic. And they are successful, THAT causes the growing backlash. Gone are the times where white straight men were the only ones who had power in their hands, now all kinds of people can influence the public. And how did they manage that? By FIGHTING for public acceptance, fighting for power, not catering to the people that can barely tolerate them. This is what scares the Republicans and right-wing extremists cause the moment they have to give up parts of their power is the moment where their "tolerance" ends and they start to fight back to defend their power status. Assimilation in this case is like trickle-down economy: If the powerful grow more powerful (cause they get their will after all if minorities shut up), the less powerful will gain power as well. Does it really work that way tho?

 

With all due respect to your opinion, but if trans people are banned from receiving the medical help they need to transition or the topic of racism is banned from school curriculums or drag shows are threatened by armed protestors who want to lynch gay people, I can't think of any "neutral ground" to approach these people, I don't know what a compromise could look like. Again, if someone says to you "I want you to deny who you are because it makes me uncomfortable", would you ask "Ok, what can I do so you can tolerate my existence again?" (cause we both agree acceptance is out of the question) or would you say "**** off!" and live your life they way you want?

Edited March 18, 2023 by The Next Day

[Letemtalk]

46 minutes ago, Brando said:

You are picking the worst examples on one side and the best examples on the other. The right feels like they are not listened to, they are constantly gagged and made fun of. That pushes them further right and into the hands of people like Trump. The US Politics needs to return to the middle or it will break the country and will have serious consequences for the rest of the world. The left also needs to telegraph more clearly what their main policy positions are and not get caught in culture wars by simply denouncing the craziest ideas on the extreme left instead of trying to dodge those issues or be afraid to offend anyone by not supporting them. 

Oh no, people made fun of them.

 

Is that considered worse than neo-nazis marching in the streets and an insurrection, or about the same?

 

Just a quick reminder, the GOP examples I gave were supported by the elected Republican candidate and actual elected President of the United States - these are not the worst examples, they are mainstream in the Republican party. Just look what happened to Liz Cheney when she took a anti-insurrection stance. The GOP proved that she was the outsider and the GOP examples I gave were much closer to mainstream.

 

If anything I should have used more extreme examples for the Republicans.

 

In most western nations, many of those left wing policies I mentioned, like public funded healthcare, are considered mainstream policies supported by both the centre left and centre right parties.

 

But in the US, the Democrats do everything possible to make sure any potential presidential candidate who advocates for those very mainstream (in most countries) things is branded as an extremist and will never become president.

 

The United States has two right wing parties, one centre right and the other far right.

What is this "return to the middle" you are talking about?

Edited March 18, 2023 by Letemtalk

[Communion]

2 minutes ago, Brando said:

I don't feel comfortable naming anything by names here on atrl because people like you would immediately run to HQ to complain about all sorts of phobias and declare that they feel very unsafe here until mods feel forced to do something about it. So ye, I said what I said. Take what you may from it. I know I will never change your mind, so I'd rather not talk about it with you specifically 

You got tricked into believing the cat litter in the school bathroom propaganda, didn't you?  Oh sis... how did you became so right-wing post-2020... 

[JustLikeHoney]

38 minutes ago, Communion said:

1) What Democrats ran on defunding the police?

2) How has criminal justice reform benefited from two right-wing parties thinking the solution is more cops?

You act like all democrats view defund police the same way. Some people want no law enforcement. 

 

I do believe in police reform. Just like not all Republicans want Nazi's walking the streets. 

 

The difference is the fringe of the right currently controls the Republican party and is in the majority. The fringe of the left doesn't.

 

Biden isn't talking about sensible things like Healthcare for all or environmental and police reform. 

 

Also how is he going to get environmental, health, and police reform done if the right fringe controlling the Republican party does not agree. I live in FL. I know what it will be like if the Republican party controlled all three branches of Government. 

 

Stop attacking him for stupid stuff like this. You are putting words in his mouth. 

 

There is plenty of stuff you can attack him for that I agree with you, but this is literally ridiculous. 

 

Edited March 18, 2023 by JustLikeHoney