Beyoncé or Taylor Swift – Bigger after 17 years into their careers?

[Baby Boy]

Commercially - Taylor

Culturally - Beyoncé 

[Heartbreak Prince]

37 minutes ago, Badgalbriel said:

I'm telling you, Beyoncé's supposedly game-changing albumS from last decade are less consumed than some album cuts from released a decade ago by Taylor. 

 

All that impact lasted a year and then the novelty simply wears off 

I was hoping a Wasp would let me know the reason behind these stats. Is Spotify lying? Is it a glitch? Just doesn’t seem correct that such an iconic album would have so little streams, don’t you think? Maybe we were lied to? Surely not.

[Norte]

Taylor easily 

[Badgalbriel]

1 hour ago, swissman said:

Do you really want us to list every example of Beyoncé's name used as an indictor of success/excellence, or to reference her stature within the industry or every think-piece or critical essay that outlines her place and importance within pop music? Why act like you don't know the way people react/feel towards Beyoncé? The very idea that everyone says its just "media hype" as a way to deride her shows that we acknowledge the way she is seen and the stature she holds.

 

Her name appears in almost every reality competition show, almost like clockwork: from fashion to food to Survivor. Some contestant (a member of the GP) will say "I'm the Beyoncé of this competition". This occurs in places you'd expect like RuPaul's Drag Race (see gifs below for just a few) but also shows like Blown Away Season 1 Episode 2 where a contestant in a glass blowing competition compares her skills to Beyoncé's.

 

Anyway, I'm sure these few references will not be enough... so I'll just keep that in mind and take notes for next time. The references pop up fast enough it won't be hard to fill some pages of a notebook.

 

Now, of course lots of pop-stars are mentioned in lots of shows. That's not though point though. It's how they're referenced and what they're using their name to mean insofar as the metaphor or implied adjectives associated to them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That doesn't mean she's bigger. It just means she's f*cking excelent at everything she does 

[Lille]

They are two of the most successful, culturally relevant artists (no "female" qualifier needed) of ALL TIME, who cares?!

 

Go fight about Justin Bieber vs The Weeknd or whatever.

[swissman]

24 minutes ago, Badgalbriel said:

That doesn't mean she's bigger. It just means she's f*cking excelent at everything she does 

That's true, but I'm talking about her excellence as it relates to her legend-hood as well, and the scale at which people see/feel/talk about Beyoncé because of her excellence. This places her in a stature that Taylor has not yet entered.

 

If the question is just sale stats, fine, but that doesn't necessarily point to the "bigger" artist as far as their stature and/or importance goes.

If that were the case Chris Brown would be considered bigger than Usher. George Strait would be considered bigger than Janet Jackson. Flo Rida would be considered bigger than Aretha Franklin. And I don't think any of these are true.

[The Music Industry]

6 hours ago, Heartbreak Prince said:

Question for the Hives:

 

If self-titled was such an iconic, legendary, never been seen before, never been done before games changer, why is it so forgotten?

 

Taylor has 11 albums that got streamed more yesterday, including two that have since been discarded by her fanbase.

...Mess

[Pristine]

On 3/7/2023 at 9:33 PM, Juanny said:

About equal. 

this. They both above Gaga by lightyears

[The Music Industry]

3 hours ago, swissman said:

Do you really want us to list every example of Beyoncé's name used as an indictor of success/excellence, or to reference her stature within the industry or every think-piece or critical essay that outlines her place and importance within pop music?

Literally the same thing could be done about Taylor Swift, tho? Taylor has MASSIVE impact, despite the fact that it is constantly undermined here. But the bottom line is that impact is a vague and subjective concept

 

Side note but I love how for years whenever impact was brought up on Twitter and pop forums, Beyoncé fans would bring up that there's university courses about her and fast forward to 2023 and you have a BUNCH of universities offering courses on Taylor Swift's musicality and her impact, including but not limited to Stanford University (announced today!), New York University, Queen's University at Kingston, St Thomas University, University of Texas and Binghamton University  

Edited March 9, 2023 by The Music Industry

[Elusive Chanteuse]

Beyonce for me. She has talent for start.

 

[aesthetic bih]

Taylor tbh because of her stats

[swissman]

22 minutes ago, The Music Industry said:

Literally the same thing could be done about Taylor Swift, tho? Taylor has MASSIVE impact, despite the fact that it is constantly undermined here. But the bottom line is that impact is a vague and subjective concept

 

Side note but I love how for years whenever impact was brought up on Twitter and pop forums, Beyoncé fans would bring up that there's university courses about her and fast forward to 2023 and you have a BUNCH of universities offering courses on Taylor Swift's musicality and her impact, including but not limited to Stanford University (announced today!), New York University, Queen's University at Kingston, St Thomas University, University of Texas and Binghamton University  

By this same note though, Beyoncé's courses were always undermined and claimed to not matter, just like her "impact" and all the other stuff being brought up in this thread that apparently doesn't have an exact number next to it thus can't be considered. It may be vague and subjective, but if we have enough subjects that all add up to something being a widely held idea, then it's more than just "vague".

 

I agree Taylor has a lot of impact, but I just don't think in this moment that the impact is such that she is regarded as a larger-than-life, almost mythic figure for it. This could be that Taylor has a very different kind of branding than Beyoncé, but it's certainly at a different scale. After the release of BEYONCÉ, her career and the way people saw her almost instantly shifted. She went from a pop icon to a legend.

 

 

Edited March 9, 2023 by swissman

[The Music Industry]

2 hours ago, swissman said:

I agree Taylor has a lot of impact, but I just don't think in this moment that the impact is such that she is regarded as a larger-than-life, almost mythic figure for it.

Outside of the constant media play, nor is Beyoncé to the vast majority of the world population. Like... Go in almost any Asian country outside of perhaps South Korea and ask them who's a more mythical larger-than-life figure between Beyoncé and Taylor and trust me the vast majority would say Taylor 

[*-ChriZ-*]

9 minutes ago, The Music Industry said:

Outside of the constant media play, nor is Beyoncé to the vast majority of the world population. Like... Go in almost any Asian country outside of perhaps South Korea and ask them who's a more mythical larger-than-life figure between Beyoncé and Taylor and trust me the vast majority would say Taylor 

U talk about Asian countries that are constantly racist towards black people and that pretty much do not celebrate black art? Gotcha.

 

Once you understand that race (unfortunately) plays a big big part when it comes to commercial viability, you realize how much more impressive Beyonce with her heavy RnB-leaning sound actually is. Thats why shes as revered as she is and why shes considered a legend and a bigger than life entertainer, unlike Taylor, who is "just" successful

Edited March 9, 2023 by *-ChriZ-*

[LuneMon]

Taylor, but I feel Beyoncé is going to be more remembered in the long run. 

[The Music Industry]

19 minutes ago, *-ChriZ-* said:

U talk about Asian countries that are constantly racist towards black people and that pretty much do not celebrate black art? Gotcha.

I am talking about Asia, the biggest continent on Earth. Do you not think it's worth discussing the biggest continent on Earth in a conversation about impact and success? Someone said Beyoncé is more seen as bigger-than-life than Taylor. I pointed out that's certainly not true everywhere, especially in Asia. That's just a fact. Like, yes, racism certainly exists and can play a role, but we also have to keep in mind Asia in general just doesn't use western music all that much. Taylor being so big there is an anomaly, CERTAINLY not a norm for white artists who all mostly just tank into oblivion. Bar Taylor, the biggest western female artist in Asia is probably Mariah Carey, while the western biggest male artist in Asia is certainly Michael Jackson.  

Edited March 9, 2023 by The Music Industry

[SwiftLover]

the results 

[Isaiah]

10 hours ago, swissman said:

Do you really want us to list every example of Beyoncé's name used as an indictor of success/excellence, or to reference her stature within the industry or every think-piece or critical essay that outlines her place and importance within pop music? Why act like you don't know the way people react/feel towards Beyoncé? The very idea that everyone says its just "media hype" as a way to deride her shows that we acknowledge the way she is seen and the stature she holds.

 

Her name appears in almost every reality competition show, almost like clockwork: from fashion to food to Survivor. Some contestant (a member of the GP) will say "I'm the Beyoncé of this competition". This occurs in places you'd expect like RuPaul's Drag Race (see gifs below for just a few) but also shows like Blown Away Season 1 Episode 2 where a contestant in a glass blowing competition compares her skills to Beyoncé's.

 

Anyway, I'm sure these few references will not be enough... so I'll just keep that in mind and take notes for next time. The references pop up fast enough it won't be hard to fill some pages of a notebook.

 

Now, of course lots of pop-stars are mentioned in lots of shows. That's not though point though. It's how they're referenced and what they're using their name to mean insofar as the metaphor or implied adjectives associated to them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Subjective rupaul’s drag race receipts instead of objective data… 

[RiseAndShine]

19 hours ago, spiritboy said:

They have different talents so it's not fair to compare tham. You can compare Taylor to Mariah because both women are amazing songwriters.

 

Beyoncé is an amazing performer, you can compare her to MJ only.

Lol you tried it. Michael wrote the majority of his major songs solo.

 

They Don't Care About Us was played during BLM protests and people sang Heal The World during the Covid pandemic. Both written solo. He last performed those songs in the 90s.

 

His music has longevity, not those performances. Stop the bullsh!t.

 

---

 

Let me preface this by saying I'm not a fan of Taylor at all. She is the biggest artist in the world and has been for a while now. It's asinine to think otherwise.

 

 

[FunCoric]

Taylor is bigger for people under 30 but Beyonce bigger for older I'd say

[*-ChriZ-*]

50 minutes ago, RiseAndShine said:

Lol you tried it. Michael wrote the majority of his major songs solo.

 

They Don't Care About Us was played during BLM protests and people sang Heal The World during the Covid pandemic. Both written solo. He last performed those songs in the 90s.

 

His music has longevity, not those performances. Stop the bullsh!t.

 

---

 

Let me preface this by saying I'm not a fan of Taylor at all. She is the biggest artist in the world and has been for a while now. It's asinine to think otherwise.

 

 

And so was Formation during BLM Protests and RTW is a staple at rallies for feminist issues or during International womens day. Ur point?

 

7 hours ago, The Music Industry said:

I am talking about Asia, the biggest continent on Earth. Do you not think it's worth discussing the biggest continent on Earth in a conversation about impact and success? Someone said Beyoncé is more seen as bigger-than-life than Taylor. I pointed out that's certainly not true everywhere, especially in Asia. That's just a fact. Like, yes, racism certainly exists and can play a role, but we also have to keep in mind Asia in general just doesn't use western music all that much. Taylor being so big there is an anomaly, CERTAINLY not a norm for white artists who all mostly just tank into oblivion. Bar Taylor, the biggest western female artist in Asia is probably Mariah Carey, while the western biggest male artist in Asia is certainly Michael Jackson.  

I didnt say lets not discuss it, I said be more mindful of how things work. Regardless of sales, Beys status in Asia is still one of the greats. People recognized her for that.

[RiseAndShine]

2 minutes ago, *-ChriZ-* said:

And so was Formation during BLM Protests and RTW is a staple at rallies for feminist issues or during International womens day. Ur point?

If you didn't get my point that's your problem.

[Axelios]

Taylor is much bigger obviously. 

[*-ChriZ-*]

6 minutes ago, RiseAndShine said:

If you didn't get my point that's your problem.

Ok thats also a way of saying nothing I guess.

 

I love how Swifties and OBHs alike would argue that Aretha is a nobody compared to Britney Spears or Rihanna based on the logic displayed in this thread. If u want to ask who sold more, than go ahead: I'd agree the answer is clearly Taylor (tho adding DC to Beys stats would make this certainly more interesting)

If you ask whos "bigger", then the answer is clearly Beyonce. And this will probably never change cause Taylor just doesnt have anything extraordinary. Mediocre at best. Literally serving "gowns, beautiful gowns".

[prézli]

On 3/7/2023 at 10:38 PM, Big Bad Wolf said:

Beyoncé’s feels a lot bigger and more iconic. Taylor has sales, but outside of that, she’s not too culturally relevant.

.