Beyoncé or Taylor Swift – Bigger after 17 years into their careers?

[Taemira]

about equal in the sense that both eras were frontloaded.

[Badgalbriel]

1 hour ago, *-ChriZ-* said:

Oh cmon, that cash grab being risky when beforehand she made sure everyone felt sorry for her? 

 

I stand by what I said: It's like comparing Aretha to Celine. One sells more, the other is clearly bigger and more impactful. 

In this case, Taylor is both. Sells more and is bigger and more impactful. Media hype is not the same as being impactful. Impact can only be measured by how people consume your music. In Beyoncé's case, very few people are doing it. 

[Badgalbriel]

5 minutes ago, Taemira said:

about equal in the sense that both eras were frontloaded.

Midnights is far from frontloaded. You should look at stats before posting nonsense 

[Badgalbriel]

7 hours ago, Bloo said:

Beyoncé feels more culturally successful. 

There's no such a thing as culturally successful. There are over a thousand different cultures in the world.

[Badgalbriel]

10 hours ago, Brikenbur said:

Beyoncé. Beyoncé’s name is bigger. She was iconic and compared to the greats within her first 17 years. Her performances and songs were instant classics. Taylor hasn’t come close to that recognition yet despite her multiple AOTY awards and 1M+ first week sales, so 

 

Also, why are y’all constantly comparing an R&B singer who has multiple crossover successes to a mostly mainstream pop girl with a completely different audience/demographic? 

R&B is not a niche genre girl

If that's the case then Taylor also has more non-pop albums than pop albums 

[Popboi.]

Taylor, objectively.

[Heartbreak Prince]

The answer is clearly Taylor. Every stat says so.

 

also, absolutely nothing Beyoncé has ever done is as risky as Taylor’s re-releases. Considering no-one is even listening to the current versions, I can only imagine how embarrassing Beyoncé (Beyoncé’s Version) for example, would do.

Edited March 8, 2023 by Heartbreak Prince

[Rihannito]

Beyoncé.

[*-ChriZ-*]

1 hour ago, Badgalbriel said:

In this case, Taylor is both. Sells more and is bigger and more impactful. Media hype is not the same as being impactful. Impact can only be measured by how people consume your music. In Beyoncé's case, very few people are doing it. 

Taylor is the Western Version of BTS. Huge following, no substance. U can give me all the numbers u want, it wont change my mind. Shes average in every sense, tho her business savvy is outstanding. I give her that. Truly the McDonalds of Music. Congrats tho.

[Brikenbur]

1 hour ago, Badgalbriel said:

R&B is not a niche genre girl

If that's the case then Taylor also has more non-pop albums than pop albums 

No one said it was. But you literally want to compare sales figures of a musician who mainly caters to the R&B demo to a pop musician in her 30’s who literally makes music for children. Sounds great. 

[Badgalbriel]

Just now, Brikenbur said:

No one said it was. But you literally want to compare sales figures of a musician who mainly caters to the R&B demo to a pop musician in her 30’s who literally makes music for children. Sounds great. 

The R&B sound has been the biggest genre in music for a while. Pop has only started to dominate again now. 

[Bloo]

1 hour ago, Badgalbriel said:

There's no such a thing as culturally successful. There are over a thousand different cultures in the world.

This is like saying there’s no such thing as economic success because there are over a thousand different economies in the world. Enough pettifogging, it was obvious what I meant. 

[spiritboy]

They have different talents so it's not fair to compare tham. You can compare Taylor to Mariah because both women are amazing songwriters.

 

Beyoncé is an amazing performer, you can compare her to MJ only.

[Navy4Life]

15 hours ago, Big Bad Wolf said:

Beyoncé’s feels a lot bigger and more iconic. Taylor has sales, but outside of that, she’s not too culturally relevant.

She literally had Congress look into her tour  y’all say anything these days. 
 

ot: Taylor. 

[Brikenbur]

39 minutes ago, Badgalbriel said:

The R&B sound has been the biggest genre in music for a while. Pop has only started to dominate again now. 

R&B females typically do not generate sales figures comparable to those of pop girls. Let’s not even get into it. Go look for Speak Now TV Easter eggs or sumn 

[swissman]

Taylor commercially...but she is not at the level of reverence and all-out game changing effect that Beyoncé had in 2013/2014 with the release of her self-titled visual album. With that move, Beyoncé solidified herself as a legend. And considering as well the historic and iconic first part of her career with Destiny's Child, at 17 years into her career she was at a bigger spot within pop culture and the music industry as a whole.

 

And yes, much of this can't be quantified, but there is a reason people refer to Beyoncé in a manner they do not with Taylor, as respected and adored as she is. Both are incredibly praised by the industry and by the GP, but Beyoncé carved out her own lane that basically only she has fully traversed. Others, Taylor included, have taken some steps on that path but no one has ventured particularly far into it.

 

Put simply, Taylor is amazingly successful, but lacks the singular gravity that Beyoncé had in 2013/2014.

 

[swissman]

10 hours ago, elincomprendid said:

Nothing Beyonce has ever done will be as risky as releasing re-recordings of old albums bffr

Also abandoning her hardcore country base was a huge risk so don't lie to yourself

Is this said in seriousness? Neither of those things are inherently risky, especially given the circumstances that they were done.

 

Re-releasing old albums after much fuss and outrage was made about the purchase of their masters makes commercial sense. And even if they flopped, they're re-recordings of old albums. It wouldn't have hurt her career or standing whatsoever. This would be like saying it's risky to release a live album because the songs are already out there on studio recordings.

 

As far as going from country-pop to pop after she had already firmly established herself as a pop superstar, this also just makes commercial sense, especially since she was never "hardcore country" to begin with and her singles were increasingly becoming less country while simultaneously becoming incredibly more popular than ever. Progressing from country to literally the most popular genre is not a risk.

 

 

I ask if this is serious because to name these two things and say Beyoncé has never done anything as risky is kind of ridiculous. Beyoncé literally changed the way people think about releasing/promoting albums by taking the first big risk in not promoting it whatsoever before release. As much as we can say it could have big rewards, there is absolutely no precedent that this would be the case. Not only that, but she took another risk in limiting the tracking week it was released within, willingly cutting its first week sales by about half. If it had a not huge amount of sales, it would look even more like an underperformance. Continuing with this, would and has Taylor ever done something like release a lead single for free, not send it to radio, not release a public music video, not put it on streaming and not make it for sale? What this does is not only risk the chart performance of a song, but outright DENY it altogether. I don't think Taylor would ever risk starting an era like that. And as far as tracking weeks, Beyoncé has an entire history of ignoring them.

 

Beyond just marketing, performing a knowingly political divisive song at an event so "American" as the NFL's Super Bowl was far more of a risk than re-recording an album or making pop music can ever be, and this was even before Kaepernick's kneeling which caused such a controversy. And with the video released the day prior, the message and the meaning was clearly known. Beyoncé got threats, was called a racist, police said they would not provide protection on her tour, there was a boycott against her, etc. Obviously this activated the people who agreed with her, but it also was one of the biggest pop lines-in-the-sand in a long while. And to this day there are people asking that she "stop making music about Black pride and go back to Halo." One could argue that the risk here (alienating her fanbase and much of the Trump-supporting GP) outweighs the potential gain (seeming politically savvy, empowering certain demographics, etc.) but there is also a reason why it made such an impact. I'd say the last big pop moment with such racially specific messaging was all the way back in 1989 with Janet Jackson's Rhythm Nation 1814. It really wasn't in pop to such a degree until after Formation.

[Bimbo]

11 hours ago, elincomprendid said:

The fact that all replies justifying beyonce is about how big she "feels" and never factual data says enough about what's the real answer

Wait

[charot]

Taylor obv, she's got actual receipts. The other is PR driven.

Edited March 8, 2023 by charot

[Heartbreak Prince]

Question for the Hives:

 

If self-titled was such an iconic, legendary, never been seen before, never been done before games changer, why is it so forgotten?

 

Taylor has 11 albums that got streamed more yesterday, including two that have since been discarded by her fanbase.

[TaggedGalaxy]

Anyone unironically saying Beyoncé needs therapy

[Feanor]

10 hours ago, Jjang said:

According to CM Bey’s first 17 year’s career total is around 127m. That’s not too far from Taylor’s and becomes less significant once you consider Bey’s greater cultural impact 

I mean for this comparison to be fair, you'd have too look what Beyoncé's stats were around 2014, since her material from 1997-2014 had 8 additional years to accumulate units. Or you'd need to estimate where Taylor Swift's units would approximately be 8 years from now… 

[Badgalbriel]

2 hours ago, Heartbreak Prince said:

Question for the Hives:

 

If self-titled was such an iconic, legendary, never been seen before, never been done before games changer, why is it so forgotten?

 

Taylor has 11 albums that got streamed more yesterday, including two that have since been discarded by her fanbase.

I'm telling you, Beyoncé's supposedly game-changing albumS from last decade are less consumed than some album cuts from released a decade ago by Taylor. 

 

All that impact lasted a year and then the novelty simply wears off 

Edited March 8, 2023 by Badgalbriel

[iamanearthling]

These beyonce fans have a lot of nothing to say. Lols. 

It's obviously Taylor. I live in the real world. 

[swissman]

14 hours ago, elincomprendid said:

The fact that all replies justifying beyonce is about how big she "feels" and never factual data says enough about what's the real answer

Do you really want us to list every example of Beyoncé's name used as an indictor of success/excellence, or to reference her stature within the industry or every think-piece or critical essay that outlines her place and importance within pop music? Why act like you don't know the way people react/feel towards Beyoncé? The very idea that everyone says its just "media hype" as a way to deride her shows that we acknowledge the way she is seen and the stature she holds.

 

Her name appears in almost every reality competition show, almost like clockwork: from fashion to food to Survivor. Some contestant (a member of the GP) will say "I'm the Beyoncé of this competition". This occurs in places you'd expect like RuPaul's Drag Race (see gifs below for just a few) but also shows like Blown Away Season 1 Episode 2 where a contestant in a glass blowing competition compares her skills to Beyoncé's.

 

Anyway, I'm sure these few references will not be enough... so I'll just keep that in mind and take notes for next time. The references pop up fast enough it won't be hard to fill some pages of a notebook.

 

Now, of course lots of pop-stars are mentioned in lots of shows. That's not though point though. It's how they're referenced and what they're using their name to mean insofar as the metaphor or implied adjectives associated to them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 8, 2023 by swissman