Is It Time For Meat Eaters To Pay A Kill Tax?

[K$Ellie]

1 minute ago, TouchinFree said:

I have 90% possibility of becoming a full time vegan. But I started eating meat regularly only because of the vegan people I've met. Worse than radical feminists and religious nut jobs. 

you’re eating meat to spite these hypothetical vegans 

[Pacify Him]

Nutritional science all you're gonna be doing is formulating ingredients into enteral feeding tubes and it will not even be your place to advocate your bias. You might as well just stick to your opinions in Twitter

[TouchinFree]

1 minute ago, K$Ellie said:

you’re eating meat to spite these hypothetical vegans 

Yes. Basically if someone pressures me to do something I'll do the opposite. Also I'm enjoying my burgers and kebab wraps so much. I've regained my health and strength as well.

 

 

[Miss Show Business]

6 minutes ago, Yum said:

You're misunderstanding my goal. I don't care to be supported, I am doing what's moral. No amount of needless murder is moral no matter how much society has normalised it. I'm not looking to reach a compromise where I support murder mondays then we all eat plants the other six days of the week. Realistic or not I'm going to continue advocating for what's moral. I believe taxing meat products is an excellent step in the right direction which is my answer to the prompt is a firm yes, slay girl slay (but don't slay animals).

You're always going to lose people when you try to make this about morals. Sorry.

 

Morality in this case is subjective. Like I said, I value human lives far more than the lives of the cows, pigs, and chickens I eat.

 

Let's be real, here. If there was a burning building, and you could only save a human child, or Fluffy the cat... Most people are going to save the child.

 

And honestly, I question anybody who wouldn't save the child and think there should be charges if they chose to rescue the cat over a human being.

 

Maybe you have different ideas about this, but the simple fact is, when it comes to human beings and the animals we consume, human rights are always going to be more important than some animal "rights". I actually think it would be offensive to afford some animals the same rights as human beings... It just isn't logical. The law, and human behavior in general, has usually always valued the lives of our own over that of animals.

[Armani?]

6 minutes ago, Pacify Him said:

lol you spent all those days studying only to be biased? You have no place in the industry. They (doctors and nurses) are not gonna let you get away with that. Time to wake up in the real world, miss

Biased in what way?

 

Perhaps you should check the funding for the study. Do you think Big Broccoli funded it, the horror.

 

Doctors only get one day of nutritional training in 4 years. They primarily learn about what drugs to prescribe, not food

[Pacify Him]

Just now, Armani? said:

Biased in what way?

 

Perhaps you should check the funding for the study. Do you think Big Broccoli funded it, the horror.

 

Doctors only get one day of nutritional training in 4 years. They primarily learn about what drugs to prescribe, not food

No. You are exactly wrong about that. It's the doctors who give out the dietary orders you literally have no idea. Poor thing

[Guest]

Just now, TouchinFree said:

Yes. Basically if someone pressures me to do something I'll do the opposite. Also I'm enjoying my burgers and kebab wraps so much. I've regained my health and strength as well.

It's kinda childish to do the opposite just for the sake of it when all vegan activists are doing is saying "please don't cause the  unnecessary murder of a defenceless animal". 

 

Also as previously stated in the thread all nutrients that are in animal products can be consumed from plants so you could regain that health and strength with plant power should you so choose.

[FOCK]

“Reducing suffering is good and virtuous. Working to eliminate unnecessary suffering is extremist”. 

Miss Show Business “logic”.

 

 

Edited February 16, 2023 by FOCK

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Miss Show Business said:

You're always going to lose people when you try to make this about morals. Sorry.

 

Morality in this case is subjective. Like I said, I value human lives far more than the lives of the cows, pigs, and chickens I eat.

 

Let's be real, here. If there was a burning building, and you could only save a human child, or Fluffy the cat... Most people are going to save the child.

 

And honestly, I question anybody who wouldn't save the child and think there should be charges if they chose to rescue the cat over a human being.

 

Maybe you have different ideas about this, but the simple fact is, when it comes to human beings and the animals we consume, human rights are always going to be more important than some animal "rights". I actually think it would be offensive to afford some animals the same rights as human beings... It just isn't logical. The law, and human behavior in general, has usually always valued the lives of our own over that of animals.

I fear you are arguing points I never made.

 

As previously stated I don't care about gaining people, losing people. My goal here is to be a voice for what's right, if people come, wonderful, if people don't I won't lose sleep.

 

Again, as previously stated, you are right to value human lives more than animal lives. And you are right I'd save the child over the fluffy cat. But again again, as previously stated, in this situation is not an "us or the animals" situation. I'd save the human over the fluffy cat but I wouldn't then sneak up on a fluffy cat while he's sleeping and shoot him just because in the hypothetical of a "human or cat" situation I'd save a human. There's a clear path you're not recognising exists: just don't hurt animals. None of us are in danger, it's not us or the animals, we can both live in harmony with no one dying here. No buildings are on fire here.

 

I'm also not advocating for animals to have the same rights as humans, I'm advocating that animals have the basic right to live without being murdered. I'm not saying they should have the right to an education, employment, voting. Simply, they should be allowed to live.

Edited February 16, 2023 by Yum
typo fml

[Armani?]

6 minutes ago, Pacify Him said:

No. You are exactly wrong about that. It's the doctors who give out the dietary orders you literally have no idea. Poor thing

That's what nutritionists are for

 

If you want doctors to have that credit then they are doing a terrible job because the #1 cause of death is heart disease 

About 697,000 people die of heart disease in the United States every year

https://www.health.ny.gov/diseases/cardiovascular/heart_disease/#:~:text=About 697%2C000 people die of,Americans have a heart attack.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, FOCK said:

“Reducing suffering is good and virtuous. Working to eliminate unnecessary suffering is extremist”. 

Miss Show Business “logic”.

 

 

I kii 

 

Also, since you're a fellow vegan may I treat you to this cute image of a kitten?

[Pacify Him]

1 minute ago, Armani? said:

That's what nutritionists are for

 

If you want doctors to have that credit then they are doing a terrible job because the #1 cause of death is heart disease 

About 697,000 people die of heart disease in the United States every year

https://www.health.ny.gov/diseases/cardiovascular/heart_disease/#:~:text=About 697%2C000 people die of,Americans have a heart attack.

I know of this but we can only blame capitalism and companies for introducing trans fats in food products which was only banned in 2017 (where are the nutritionists pre-2017? Aren't they to blame too?). Recovering only from stent catheterization that no amount of diet can intervene a clogged artery

[FOCK]

4 minutes ago, Yum said:

I kii 

 

Also, since you're a fellow vegan may I treat you to this cute image of a kitten?

So cute! I fear some members here might start drooling over the idea. 
 

The lengths required to reach, just make a third grade level argument. Y’all aren’t saving any children from burning buildings, you’re going through a drive-thru window, be serious. 

[Guest]

Just now, FOCK said:

So cute! I fear some members here might start drooling over the idea.

Just now, FOCK said:

The lengths required to reach, just make a third grade level argument. Y’all aren’t saving any children from burning buildings, you’re going through a drive-thru window, be serious. 

But if you were on a desert island-

[Miss Show Business]

Just now, Yum said:

I'm also not advocating for animals to have the same rights as humans, I'm advocating that animals have the basic right to live without being murdered. I'm not saying they should have the right to an education, employment, voting. Simply, they should be allowed to live.

I don't know how else to convince you that this simply is never going to happen for cattle.

 

Isn't it better to give up on what you cannot control and focus on the things you can control?

 

And sorry, but you are not a morally superior person for not consuming meat. Some of your posts here reeck of condescension and narcissism. There are a myriad of reasons people eat meat: one of them being it is usually more affordable than fruits and vegetables, and not everyone has an unlimited budget, even for essential things like groceries.

 

This condescension is never going to win anyone over and you're never going to accomplish your goal here. Time to hang it up and give it a rest. Focus on the things I brought up that we can work together on: stop making this personal. Nobody cares that you think you're morally superior. Even if you're not saying this, it's definitely the vibe your posts are giving, and this is the problem most people have with vegans.

 

Nobody cares about your moral philosophy on this topic, because a vast majority of people do not agree with you.

 

If you truly genuinely care about animals and making their lives better, then you'd drop the morality act, stop judging other people, and actually do things that are effective at reducing suffering and eventually reducing killing for meat. This means advocating for the things I argued for above: working together WITH omnivores on the things we can agree on. Trying to plug in your morals comes off as condescending and narcissistic, period. If you truly care more about animals than being right and judging other people you view as less than; then you'd work in the ways I described. Because again, that's the only realistic way. Period.

 

As far as I'm concerned, unless you're actually advocating for the things I described, then anything else you have to say is null and void. If you're not doing those things, then let's be real here, you don't really care about animals: you care more about feeling morally superior to other people.

 

[Sazare]

Yes tbh

[Miss Show Business]

23 minutes ago, FOCK said:

“Reducing suffering is good and virtuous. Working to eliminate unnecessary suffering is extremist”. 

Miss Show Business “logic”.

 

 

@ me next time if you have a problem with me.

 

Yes, arguing for the complete elimination of meat in human diets is extremist, and as I said, this really has nothing to do about animals. It has to do with judging other people to feel better about yourself.

[FOCK]

13 minutes ago, Miss Show Business said:

@ me next time if you have a problem with me.

 

Yes, arguing for the complete elimination of meat in human diets is extremist, and as I said, this really has nothing to do about animals. It has to do with judging other people to feel better about yourself.

If you don’t wish to eliminate funding systemic rape, torture and murder, and in fact, think it necessary for your survival, I would judge you a whole lot less. At least you’d be honest.

 

Where the issue comes to play is when you pretend you care, but come in with your ill-informed doomerism, demanding that people advocate in a way that still allows you to get away with the infliction of immeasurable harm, call people extremists & ask them to give up.
 

If you’re not interested in the type of progress we wish to make, that’s cute for you. Keep it moving. That you feel the need to stand in the way of advocacy, bog it down with the excuses you use to convince yourself, & DEMAND that it only happens in a way you’re comfortable with, is actually, the height of narcissism & emotional immaturity. 

It’s giving “we can work to eliminate poverty, but let’s only eliminate half & tell ourselves we’ve done a good job”. 
 

It’s giving “I don’t kill on Mondays, so I can kill on Wednesdays”.

 

It’s giving “I don’t aspire for the best version of our future, so nor should you.” 

Edited February 16, 2023 by FOCK

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Miss Show Business said:

Isn't it better to give up on what you cannot control and focus on the things you can control?

No. I believe in fighting injustices, standing up for what is right, and advocating for positive change.

Should the suffragettes have given up and focused on things they could more easily control instead of continuing to fight for their rights?

I'm not trying to be a pick me girl trying to push for change without stepping on anyones toes. I couldn't care less if people like it or not, what's happening is wrong and I'll never pretend it's okay or stop voicing my distress at this awful mass murder that continues everyday.

 

4 minutes ago, Miss Show Business said:

And sorry, but you are not a morally superior person for not consuming meat. Some of your posts here reeck of condescension and narcissism. There are a myriad of reasons people eat meat: one of them being it is usually more affordable than fruits and vegetables, and not everyone has an unlimited budget, even for essential things like groceries.

This isn't about me. It's about the animals. I'm standing up for their rights because they don't have a voice themselves. Also, I can't think of anything more narcissistic than thinking you have the right to have an innocent being killed for your taste preference.

A lot of the cheapest foods in the world such as rice, beans, etc. are vegan. Animal product prices are through the damn roof. Sure, if you go to a restaurant and order a vegan burger it might be a couple dollars above their meat burger. But if you're needing to be careful how you shop for budget reasons it's more often than not going to SAVE you money to not eat meat. I went vegan before I had anywhere close to the money I have now, I had **** all. I made it work.

 

7 minutes ago, Miss Show Business said:

This condescension is never going to win anyone over and you're never going to accomplish your goal here. Time to hang it up and give it a rest. Focus on the things I brought up that we can work together on: stop making this personal. Nobody cares that you think you're morally superior. Even if you're not saying this, it's definitely the vibe your posts are giving, and this is the problem most people have with vegans.

I never stated I am a morally superior person to you. I am not the best person out there. I've done many bad things in my life which I regret and I'm probably still making mistakes I'll look back on in the future and think are immoral. But I'm doing what's morally right in this situation at the very least. I am minimising the amount of lives that are ended for me. I fear the problem most people have with vegans is they don't want to change or accept that change is the right thing to do, and when science and logic don't work out for them they make it personal and dismiss the person as annoying. You can dislike me personally as much as you see fit, it doesn't bother me. But I'm never, ever, going to stop defending these animals, they deserve it.

 

10 minutes ago, Miss Show Business said:

Nobody cares about your moral philosophy on this topic, because a vast majority of people do not agree with you.

 

If you truly genuinely care about animals and making their lives better, then you'd drop the morality act, stop judging other people, and actually do things that are effective at reducing suffering and eventually reducing killing for meat. This means advocating for the things I argued for above: working together WITH omnivores on the things we can agree on. Trying to plug in your morals comes off as condescending and narcissistic, period. If you truly care more about animals than being right and judging other people you view as less than; then you'd work in the ways I described. Because again, that's the only realistic way. Period.

 

As far as I'm concerned, unless you're actually advocating for the things I described, then anything else you have to say is null and void. If you're not doing those things, then let's be real here, you don't really care about animals: you care more about feeling morally superior to other people.

 

The whole point of this thread is to discuss the possibility of taxing meat, if you don't care about what I bring to the discussion don't debate me on it for 30 mins then simply say "WELL I DON'T CARE!" at the end 

 

I'm not judging anyone individually for what they do, as I used to do this same thing to. I'm advocating for change. If you feel personally judged for it then that's for you to self reflect on but it's not about you, me, or any individual in this thread.

 

Once again, reduction is great but it's not a solution, I advocate for abolishment.

 

It's inaccurate to say that I only truly care about the animals if I'm willing to compromise on their rights. It comes across as you trying to get me to agree to compromise just so I'm not perceived as fake by you. But as previously stated, you can think whatever you want about me. I really couldn't care less about myself or how I'm perceived. I simply care about justice for these animals and it's not something I'll ever compromise on or stop fighting for. Periodt.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, FOCK said:

If you’re not interested in the type of progress we wish to make, that’s cute for you. Keep it moving. That you feel the need to stand in the way of advocacy, bog it down with the excuses you use to convince yourself, & DEMAND that it only happens in a way you’re comfortable with, is actually, the height of narcissism & emotional immaturity. 

It’s giving “we can work to eliminate poverty, but let’s only eliminate half & tell ourselves we’ve done a good job”. 

******* beautifully put.

 

certain people only want change if they never have to admit there was a problem in the first place.

16 minutes ago, Miss Show Business said:

@ me next time

 

I don't care if I'm liked or disliked, I don't care if what I advocate for disrupts, I'm standing up for what is right and I'm very much not alone. Periodt.

[rowlet]

the amount of strawman arguments in here from the meateaters 

 

I think the meat industry should probably be taxed more yes. I respect vegans for doing the right thing but unfortunately I eat tons of animal products and I don't care enough/don't have the willpower to change and I think a lot of ppl are in this boat

Edited February 16, 2023 by rowlet

[Miss Show Business]

16 minutes ago, FOCK said:

If you don’t wish to eliminate funding systemic rape, torture and murder, and in fact, think it necessary for your survival, I would judge you a whole lot less. At least you’d be honest.

 

Where the issue comes to play is when you pretend you care, but come in with your ill-informed doomerism, demanding that people advocate in a way that still allow you to get away with the infliction of immeasurable harm, call people extremists & ask them to give up.
 

If you’re not interested in the type of progress we wish to make, that’s cute for you. Keep it moving. That you feel the need to stand in the way of advocacy & DEMAND that it only happens in a way you’re comfortable with, is actually, the height of narcissism & emotional immaturity. 

Whooomp, there it is. Narcissism and condescension to the max. The way vegans so easily take the bait here is honestly hilarious.

 

You are not a better ******* person then me. Drop the act. Nobody ******* cares.

 

I described the ways we could move forward to reduce the suffering of animals. My point is that, yes, if we can reduce killing in the meat industry? Let's do it! Because, yes, despite my clear arguments here, I understand people have different beliefs, unlike vegans. We are on the cusp of a scientific miracle and breakthrough when it comes to lab grown meat.

 

I saw how there's a species of fish they're able to grow in the lab really well, and honestly it's incredible. This is the solution to the problems you have. If you don't accept this solution: then you don't f***ing actually care, period.

 

@Yumexposed themselves with their last idiotic post: they don't care about lab grown meat. They want complete abolishment!

 

You people don't give a rats ASS about this. You only care about feeling better about yourselves.

 

When there's no respect, there's no way forward. I'm not better than you and you're not better than me. PERIOD! Unless you can say this, then there's no longer a conversation.

 

Y'all are abhorrent human beings who lack a basic respect and decency for other people, and your judgemental ass replies show exactly why everybody f***ing hates vegans.

 

We're done here. Thanks for taking the bait and proving why everybody f***ing hates you.

[Guest]

Just now, Miss Show Business said:

@Yumexposed themselves with their last idiotic post: they don't care about lab grown meat. They want complete abolishment!

 

You people don't give a rats ASS about this. You only care about feeling better about yourselves.

 

When there's no respect, there's no way forward. I'm not better than you and you're not better than me. PERIOD! Unless you can say this, then there's no longer a conversation.

 

Y'all are abhorrent human beings who lack a basic respect and decency for other people, and your judgemental ass replies show exactly why everybody f***ing hates vegans.

 

We're done here. Thanks for taking the bait and proving why everybody f***ing hates you.

Yeo

 

Lab grown meat wouldn't harm anyone so that's fine, as I said, go ahead and eat that when it hits store shelves.

 

I already admitted I'm no better than you, infact morally I'm probably worse than you. Regardless, as I stated previously this is not about us as individuals and our own moral positions this debate is on taxing meat 

 

POV: user says we took the bait then meltdowns like there's no tomorrow

 

Ironic really that you closed your statement saying I lack respect for other people, when the entire reason we're talking is because I not only respect everyone, but every being, including non-human animals. 

[FOCK]

Sad tears. 

 

Despite members here clearly stating they don’t care how they’re perceived, nor do they claim themselves to be beyond reproach or the height of morality, some still need to resort to this claim because it’s all they have to stand on. It MUST BE TRUE OR MY REALITY IMPLODES! YOU ARE THE ******* FOR CARING ABOUT INNOCENT LIFE! SAY IT! 
 

 

If you’re invested in the idea of lab grown meat, wonderful. What are you doing in the meantime, until that technology is widespread? How are you accelerating that progress? Because what you choose to fund and advocate for, is the way to do it. 
 

And if you’re for lab grown meat, presumably, you should have no issue obtaining any vitamins and minerals you feel you’d lack on a cruelty free diet, through a readily available technology that already exists, multivitamins & supplements. Shock. 

What is boils down to is taste and texture. You value taste and texture, over the sanctity of life, the potential to end world hunger & the need to preserve the environment & significantly reduce the effects of climate change. And I’m so ABHORRENT for pointing that out. 

 

Edited February 16, 2023 by FOCK

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, rowlet said:

the amount of strawman arguments in here from the meateaters 

 

I think the meat industry should probably be taxed more yes. I respect vegans for doing the right thing but unfortunately I eat tons of animal products and I don't care enough/don't have the willpower to change and I think a lot of ppl are in this boat

First of all, it's highly respectable that you're honest about your reasoning and made a productive post here instead of throwing out another straw man argument 

 

A lot of people are indeed in that boat, my mother for one understands that eating animals is wrong but doesn't care enough to reflect those thoughts into actions.

 

Hopefully as things go on more vegan options will be available, cheaper, tastier, and fit your preferences. Then it won't be as big of a deal for people like yourself to make the jump over.