Is It Time For Meat Eaters To Pay A Kill Tax?

[John Slayne]

never thought about this specific policy, but the meat market definitely needs to be more regulated. at the moment it's a catastrophe for animals and the environment, and therefore for us too!

 

[Icarus]

5 minutes ago, Yum said:

I fear by definition it's not humane to kill an animal that's not suffering/does not want to die. They are living beings and should be entitled to the right to live.

If they're not being raised for meat then they wouldn't exist at all I fear  isn't a happy life and a quick death better than no life at all?

[zasderfght]

When I went through my phase of eating 100% plant-based products, I thought exactly the same way as you did @Yum

 

That being said, not everyone can be vegan, even if they truly wanted to be, and here's why: 

 

1. Folks with certain autoimmune disorders, such as Hashimoto's disease, are already deficient in nutrients, and some folks do not tolerate certain plant proteins. 

 

2. Not everyone has a wide variety of vegan/plant-based alternatives in the areas they live in. There are nearly tens of thousands of food deserts in the U.S. and not all grocery or convenient stores carry vegan foods. 

 

3. Produce can be expensive, particularly fresh fruits and vegetables. Sure, you can buy these frozen, but for lower-income families that are working multiple jobs, frozen dinners (typically not vegan) are some families' only sustainable options. 

 

4. Vegan substitutes can be expensive-- even more so than their animal byproducts, and they might not pack as much calcium or protein. Take vegan mayo for example. It's usually made with oils and lemon juice, so you're completely missing out on the calcium. And Follow Your Heart mayo or their processed cheeses are usually more expensive than Sargento's or your generic grocery store dairy products. 

 

That being said, it is impossible for anyone to be 100%, even if they adhere to a 100% plant-based diet. Why? 

 

1. When you go to the dentist, you're not being vegan. 

 

2. Almost every pharmaceutical drug contains lactose which isn't vegan. 

 

3. Animals typically are harmed in the process of crop-growing. Even when you're buying fruits/vegetables, it's likely animals died in the process for this reason. 

 

It's admirable you're vegan, but also understand that you're privileged that you have the income, resources, and time to have a 100% plant-based diet. 

 

By wanting to implement non-vegans to pay an additional tax, when some Americans are struggling to feed their families, comes from an extremely privileged mindset. 

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Icarus said:

If they're not being raised for meat then they wouldn't exist at all I fear  isn't a happy life and a quick death better than no life at all?

I fear their lives are not happy. If I myself had the option to either A) live my life as one of those animals or B) never exist in the first place I'd 100% choose B.

[GreatCoolBright]

Not for killing but for environment - maybe. In developed countries 

[GreatCoolBright]

4 minutes ago, zasderfght said:

When I went through my phase of eating 100% plant-based products, I thought exactly the same way as you did @Yum

 

That being said, not everyone can be vegan, even if they truly wanted to be, and here's why: 

 

1. Folks with certain autoimmune disorders, such as Hashimoto's disease, are already deficient in nutrients, and some folks do not tolerate certain plant proteins. 

 

2. Not everyone has a wide variety of vegan/plant-based alternatives in the areas they live in. There are nearly tens of thousands of food deserts in the U.S. and not all grocery or convenient stores carry vegan foods. 

 

3. Produce can be expensive, particularly fresh fruits and vegetables. Sure, you can buy these frozen, but for lower-income families that are working multiple jobs, frozen dinners (typically not vegan) are some families' only sustainable options. 

 

4. Vegan substitutes can be expensive-- even more so than their animal byproducts, and they might not pack as much calcium or protein. Take vegan mayo for example. It's usually made with oils and lemon juice, so you're completely missing out on the calcium. And Follow Your Heart mayo or their processed cheeses are usually more expensive than Sargento's or your generic grocery store dairy products. 

 

That being said, it is impossible for anyone to be 100%, even if they adhere to a 100% plant-based diet. Why? 

 

1. When you go to the dentist, you're not being vegan. 

 

2. Almost every pharmaceutical drug contains lactose which isn't vegan. 

 

3. Animals typically are harmed in the process of crop-growing. Even when you're buying fruits/vegetables, it's likely animals died in the process for this reason. 

 

It's admirable you're vegan, but also understand that you're privileged that you have the income, resources, and time to have a 100% plant-based diet. 

 

By wanting to implement non-vegans to pay an additional tax, when some Americans are struggling to feed their families, comes from an extremely privileged mindset. 

All of this is true. I’m not a vegan but the fact that the industry is destroying the environment has to be taken into consideration. Hopefully cultivated meat will be available at cheap prices in the upcoming decades and should be encouraged by choice.

[Bosque]

Yes, they should double the VAT on meat products and erase all VAT on vegetables and fruits

 

Also there's nothing more cringy than people bragging about eating meat and burgers when this topic comes up, girl you are seriously not special nor edgy at all

[Guest]

28 minutes ago, zasderfght said:

When I went through my phase of eating 100% plant-based products, I thought exactly the same way as you did @Yum

Hello, first of all just wanna appreciate someone having a discussion and not just posting "haha I eat steak", thank you for your contribution 

 

28 minutes ago, zasderfght said:

1. Folks with certain autoimmune disorders, such as Hashimoto's disease, are already deficient in nutrients, and some folks do not tolerate certain plant proteins. 

Yeah I'm not gonna pretend to be an expert on this, but there are a wide variety of vegan options for most foods. I've known vegans who for example can't have pea protein so they need to check the ingredients for that etc. If someone simply cannot live healthily and be vegan ofc that's justifiable, but these situations don't affect the majority of people.

 

28 minutes ago, zasderfght said:

2. Not everyone has a wide variety of vegan/plant-based alternatives in the areas they live in. There are nearly tens of thousands of food deserts in the U.S. and not all grocery or convenient stores carry vegan foods.

I'm aware. My best friend lives somewhere with almost no options for vegan food, so he is a vegetarian. The only way we can get vegan food to be more accessible is to create demand for it, so even those who can't live a vegan lifestyle should be looking for alternatives where possible to further the movement.

 

28 minutes ago, zasderfght said:

3. Produce can be expensive, particularly fresh fruits and vegetables. Sure, you can buy these frozen, but for lower-income families that are working multiple jobs, frozen dinners (typically not vegan) are some families' only sustainable options. 

A lot of the cheapest foods out there are staples of the vegan diet, rice, beans, lentils, etc. A lot of brands who make pre-made food lap up the cost of vegan products for now since there is less demand for them and obviously the more of something you produce the lower the cost for each individual item. I'm getting the point you're putting across, the vegan lifestyle is not always achievable for every person in every situation. But the truth is the vast majority of non vegans could be vegan, they simply don't want to / don't think about it / don't care.

 

28 minutes ago, zasderfght said:

4. Vegan substitutes can be expensive-- even more so than their animal byproducts, and they might not pack as much calcium or protein. Take vegan mayo for example. It's usually made with oils and lemon juice, so you're completely missing out on the calcium. And Follow Your Heart mayo or their processed cheeses are usually more expensive than Sargento's or your generic grocery store dairy products. 

Yeah, they can be more expensive. But it's entirely possible to not eat these substitutes in the first place, their place is to be there as an alternative to the taste of their animal product counterpart. If expense is the issue then they should simply choose a different meal under the same budget even if it's not what they originally wanted because the vegan meal doesn't cause a life to be taken.

 

28 minutes ago, zasderfght said:

That being said, it is impossible for anyone to be 100%, even if they adhere to a 100% plant-based diet. Why? 

 

1. When you go to the dentist, you're not being vegan. 

 

2. Almost every pharmaceutical drug contains lactose which isn't vegan. 

 

3. Animals typically are harmed in the process of crop-growing. Even when you're buying fruits/vegetables, it's likely animals died in the process for this reason. 

This argument doesn't make sense. If I step outside today I may step on an ant and kill it, that'd be sad but I may not notice. Should I therefor accept I am now a murderer and stab a b*tch for not standing Billie Eilish, no. The point of going vegan is to reduce the harm as far as practically possible. Nothing in the world is perfect. Yes, sometimes animals are hurt in crop growing, or someone will need medication which in some way harms animals to save their life, and we should continue to do those things that are essential to our lives. But we should reduce the suffering we cause as much as practically possible and that's what being vegan strives to do.

 

28 minutes ago, zasderfght said:

It's admirable you're vegan, but also understand that you're privileged that you have the income, resources, and time to have a 100% plant-based diet. 

 

By wanting to implement non-vegans to pay an additional tax, when some Americans are struggling to feed their families, comes from an extremely privileged mindset. 

I don't really agree here. No extra resources or time are being consumed in pursuit of me vegan. I probably invested some time the first week I went vegan and kinda stumbled around the grocery store figuring out what I could still have but it's far from something difficult to maintain. My income does help when it comes to things such as going to restaurants and such, and I'm very grateful for that, but I went vegan before I have the money I do now and just coped without the fancy stuff, because morality matters to me more. I am however very grateful that I have no medical conditions or anything that prevent me from being vegan as to consume an animal product would be very upsetting to me.

 

I don't think tax is the solution, but I think it's a step in the right direction. The truth is the vast majority of people don't want to change things, especially not things they've been doing their entire life, but what's happening is wrong. And we are not the victims of it, some of us are responsible and some of us are enablers but none of us are the victims. The animals are. They're the ones sat in a shed for months suffering while we live our lives just for us to one day place an order and consume their corpses. I know increased taxes could be difficult for some and I don't want to negatively impact anyone or anything in this world, but as I said earlier, nothing is perfect, and change needs to happen one way or another.

 

EDIT: I done wrote a book, I do apologise, TL:DR be kind to animals and stan Billie Eilish

Edited February 15, 2023 by Yum

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Dephira said:

Also there's nothing more cringy than people bragging about eating meat and burgers when this topic comes up, girl you are seriously not special nor edgy at all

Spill

[byzantium]

As a general policy, we should be moving away from such high levels of meat consumption.  At the same time we should be having more humane treatment of animals.

 

My overall issue is, I don’t think a tax is the best way to do this.  I think regulation of the meat process would achieve better results as a matter of policy.  
 

 

[ClashAndBurn]

The moment people like you even breathe something like this into the mainstream of political thought is when Republicans get a permanent filibuster-proof trifecta in US government

[Avenue]

I think we should start by rationing beef and milk and limiting alive livestock per year.

 

Cattle Industry is killing the world hundred acre of forest at a time for their feeds. There's excessive discarded surplus anyways.

[Trent W]

No, but people should be more conscious of how much of a problem it is.

 

Being 100% vegan is extremely unrealistic, and it doesn’t work for the majority of people, some of us really need meat.

 

But we should really limit consumption, people need to eat more balanced.

 

Eating meat max 2 times a week is ideal and it really would make a massive impact.

[Big Bad Wolf]

1 hour ago, zasderfght said:

When I went through my phase of eating 100% plant-based products, I thought exactly the same way as you did @Yum

 

That being said, not everyone can be vegan, even if they truly wanted to be, and here's why: 

 

1. Folks with certain autoimmune disorders, such as Hashimoto's disease, are already deficient in nutrients, and some folks do not tolerate certain plant proteins. 

 

2. Not everyone has a wide variety of vegan/plant-based alternatives in the areas they live in. There are nearly tens of thousands of food deserts in the U.S. and not all grocery or convenient stores carry vegan foods. 

 

3. Produce can be expensive, particularly fresh fruits and vegetables. Sure, you can buy these frozen, but for lower-income families that are working multiple jobs, frozen dinners (typically not vegan) are some families' only sustainable options. 

 

4. Vegan substitutes can be expensive-- even more so than their animal byproducts, and they might not pack as much calcium or protein. Take vegan mayo for example. It's usually made with oils and lemon juice, so you're completely missing out on the calcium. And Follow Your Heart mayo or their processed cheeses are usually more expensive than Sargento's or your generic grocery store dairy products. 

 

That being said, it is impossible for anyone to be 100%, even if they adhere to a 100% plant-based diet. Why? 

 

1. When you go to the dentist, you're not being vegan. 

 

2. Almost every pharmaceutical drug contains lactose which isn't vegan. 

 

3. Animals typically are harmed in the process of crop-growing. Even when you're buying fruits/vegetables, it's likely animals died in the process for this reason. 

 

It's admirable you're vegan, but also understand that you're privileged that you have the income, resources, and time to have a 100% plant-based diet. 

 

By wanting to implement non-vegans to pay an additional tax, when some Americans are struggling to feed their families, comes from an extremely privileged mindset. 

 

Thank you! Some vegans need to check their classism and privilege cause it's getting ridiculous!

[BGKC]

I think meat should be treated and priced as a luxury that’s only locally provided while the price of fruits and veggies are lowered. The meat industry is just a sick, inhumane and wasteful practice that destroys peoples heart health. Millions of people don’t even have access to clean drinking water let alone food yet we spend over 1,000 gallons of water just to produce 1 pound of beef. We feed tens of billions animals per year just to slaughter them in a world where a billion people are still going to starve anyway.

This could never be made possible as long as poor, obese westerners are alive though. The price of gas and meat MUST remain low, even if it means endless onslaught and wars. Cheaper veggies and electric cars are the devil. 

Edited February 15, 2023 by BGKC

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Trent W said:

Being 100% vegan is extremely unrealistic, and it doesn’t work for the majority of people, some of us really need meat.

I'd disagree, sure it doesn't work for some, but the majority?

 

"While recently gaining popularity among celebrities, politicians, and athletes, vegan and vegetarian diets have long been criticized as being nutritionally inadequate and even harmful. Recent efforts in Italy aimed to make feeding children a vegan diet a crime.

But according to AND, the largest group of nutritionists in the U.S., balanced plant-based diets are indeed healthful and may help prevent the development of life-threatening diseases including obesity, diabetes, heart disease, and certain types of cancers."

 

Source

[aesthetic bih]

This is ridiculous. And what's next? Tax for drinking water? Breathing. Like why tax something necessary like eating?? 

[Guest]

Just now, aesthetic bih said:

This is ridiculous. And what's next? Tax for drinking water? Breathing. Like why tax something necessary like eating?? 

No one said taxing eating, the proposition was taxing meat consumption, which is unnecessary and very harmful.

[aesthetic bih]

9 minutes ago, Yum said:

I'd disagree, sure it doesn't work for some, but the majority?

 

"While recently gaining popularity among celebrities, politicians, and athletes, vegan and vegetarian diets have long been criticized as being nutritionally inadequate and even harmful. Recent efforts in Italy aimed to make feeding children a vegan diet a crime.

But according to AND, the largest group of nutritionists in the U.S., balanced plant-based diets are indeed healthful and may help prevent the development of life-threatening diseases including obesity, diabetes, heart disease, and certain types of cancers."

 

Source

"Balanced plant-based diets"

 

Plant Based Diet : The diet consists primarily of food made of plants: fruits and vegetables in addition to nuts, seeds, whole grains, and legumes. A plant-based diet is not a vegetarian or vegan diet; you can eat poultry, beef, eggs, fish, and dairy products

[aesthetic bih]

9 minutes ago, Yum said:

No one said taxing eating, the proposition was taxing meat consumption, which is unnecessary and very harmful.

Girl, meat consumption is for EATING purposes...

 

If you are saying killing animals for other purposes like for their fur, then that's understandable

[aesthetic bih]

Not some of y'all straight up lying and saying humans do not need meat for their bodies.

 

"Meat consumption has a fundamental role as a source of protein, fat, vitamin, and oligo-elements in the diet."

 

I respect the vegan diet, but the denial of facts is the ridiculous part of this.

 

 

Souce: Science

 

 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, aesthetic bih said:

"Balanced plant-based diets"

 

Plant Based Diet : The diet consists primarily of food made of plants: fruits and vegetables in addition to nuts, seeds, whole grains, and legumes. A plant-based diet is not a vegetarian or vegan diet; you can eat poultry, beef, eggs, fish, and dairy products

That definition from a different source, the point being made is it is not nutritionally necessary for the majority of people to consume animal products.

 

3 minutes ago, aesthetic bih said:

Girl, meat consumption is for EATING purposes...

 

If you are saying killing animals for other purposes like for their fur, then that's understandable

Yes I'm aware, you're missing the point. They said:

"why tax something necessary like eating?? " and I'm stating the tax isn't on eating itself, rather a specific food.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, aesthetic bih said:

Not some of y'all straight up lying and saying humans do not need meat for their bodies.

 

"Meat consumption has a fundamental role as a source of protein, fat, vitamin, and oligo-elements in the diet."

 

I respect the vegan diet, but the denial of facts is the ridiculous part of this.

 

 

Souce: Science

 

 

We simply don't, with a balanced diet we can get the same nutritional value from plants.

 

Source: Doesn't eat animals, is not dead

[aesthetic bih]

9 minutes ago, Yum said:

That definition from a different source, the point being made is it is not nutritionally necessary for the majority of people to consume animal products.

 

Yes I'm aware, you're missing the point. They said:

"why tax something necessary like eating?? " and I'm stating the tax isn't on eating itself, rather a specific food.

If you tax a certain food, it will be harder for someone to buy it. Therefore, restricting their opportunity to eat that food

 

I am aware that the object of tax on the matter is the meat itself. But the effect of that is it will make it less accessible, similar to sin taxes in alcohol, cigarettes, wines, etc.

 

You may need to elucidate on the "nutritionally necessary" part because not all people are nutritionist experts. But in my experience, I feel like **** if I only eat vegetables and fruits, and completely meat-free. 

[khalyan]

I eat almost primarily free range meat, dairy, and eggs. Protein is very important to a healthy balanced diet and the amount of vegan alternatives needed to get that amount of protein is too excessive.