KatyPrismSpirit Posted January 9, 2023 Posted January 9, 2023 3 hours ago, Communion said: The girl later on in the video reveals she's queer. My good sis had them conservatives pressed and distressed by preaching that Allah accepts queer Muslims and polyamory in women, yas sis. She had them pressed? The girl in the niqab and the dude with long hair were literally pressed by her lack of basic Islamic knowledge and overall poor representation of the religion. That girl literally attempts to twist the rulings so they justify her behavior which is one of the most unislamic things you can do.
Afferty Posted January 9, 2023 Posted January 9, 2023 One opposite opinion on a discussion forum does not prove that Gen-Z of muslims think that way lol Islam is homophobic, and has been that way for 1400 years, lets not change it like "we just realized Lut story means this" lol.
Communion Posted January 9, 2023 Posted January 9, 2023 24 minutes ago, KatyPrismSpirit said: twist the rulings Rulings that she is free to interpret as she sees fit? Sounds like someone is mad that QUEER MUSLIMS ARE VALID
KatyPrismSpirit Posted January 9, 2023 Posted January 9, 2023 1 minute ago, Communion said: Rulings that she is free to interpret as she sees fit? Sounds like someone is mad that QUEER MUSLIMS ARE VALID She literally didnt have a single argument to back up her interpretation. In Islam there are certain things you can interpret like wether or not a woman should also cover her feet whilst wearing the hijab — but what she is doing is changing very classic, basic rulings to fit her own identity which is wrong Islamically speaking. She was literally inable to back up her claims that Islam allows for homosexual relationships and on top of that, her getting frustrated and basically crying while confessing she is gay is a literal indication that she herself knows what she is doing is not Islamic but struggles with it. Her making up some weak excuse that one from hundreds of thousands of scholars said its allowed and couldnt even provide evidence was such a poor counter argument. I get why those dudes and the girl in the niqab were visibly annoyed by her for lying about their religion.
Terrielle Posted January 9, 2023 Posted January 9, 2023 1 hour ago, yourcloud said: As a former Muslim and a gay man who lives in a place that you can be killed for being gay, Islam is a disease. The most violent organized religion in this day (well at least from the big ones). I want people to actually live in a country like Iran, Malaysia (or even Turkey would be enough) that defends this religion and bashes the queer people who suffered and still suffer emotional trauma because of Islam. I have no problem with Muslim queers. I support them and encourage them in their beliefs and practice Islam to the ends of their desire without hurting anybody. But we can seperate people from the religion, and call a spade, spade. People like us seriously need a support group or some **** because nobody has our back honestly
Communion Posted January 9, 2023 Posted January 9, 2023 3 minutes ago, KatyPrismSpirit said: She literally didnt have a single argument to back up her interpretation She literally said passages that allegedly condemn homosexuality instead read to her and many others as a condemning of rape and cheating. Who are you to say your interpretation is anymore valid than her's? What are you gonna do, get Allah to come down and correct her? 4 minutes ago, KatyPrismSpirit said: changing very classic, basic rulings Organized religion is not some naturally observed thing. It's a social contract. There are no innate, inherent rules to any religion. The entire history of organized religions, and that there are even different organized religions throughout history itself proves this - the mere existence of organized religion proves a social contract. You don't know her connection to Allah. You don't know what Islam means to her. So if she thinks that Islam is pro-LGBT and Allah loves her as a gay women, then guess what? ALLAH LOVES LGBT PEOPLE TOO!
jesus del rey Posted January 9, 2023 Posted January 9, 2023 7 minutes ago, Communion said: She literally said passages that allegedly condemn homosexuality instead read to her and many others as a condemning of rape and cheating. Who are you to say your interpretation is anymore valid than her's? What are you gonna do, get Allah to come down and correct her? Organized religion is not some naturally observed thing. It's a social contract. There are no innate, inherent rules to any religion. The entire history of organized religions, and that there are even different organized religions throughout history itself proves this - the mere existence of organized religion proves a social contract. You don't know her connection to Allah. You don't know what Islam means to her. So if she thinks that Islam is pro-LGBT and Allah loves her as a gay women, then guess what? ALLAH LOVES LGBT PEOPLE TOO! Not an Ariana Stan schooling ATRL Jokes aside, as someone who was raised in a very conservative and Muslim town, I can say that Muslims' views on LGBTQI+ (especially in the Middle East) hurts queer people very deeply and very badly. This is what I saw in the video. Instead of "crying because she knows she is contradicting herself" (what kind of bs is this tbh) she was probably crying because everybody in the room was telling her that she is sinning and Allah does not love her and her identity is a "test". This is the usual treatment queer people receive in Middle East. However, when it comes to LGBTQI+ in Islam, there are several different interpretations and what they said in the video is wrong. There is no "1" scholar defended LGBTQI+, saying that is just ignorance. LGBTQI+ people existed freely in the Ottoman Empire until the very late Ottoman Empire when it was bombarded with Western ideas. And when it comes to the interpretation of Lut, you can view it in two ways: a verse against queerness or a verse against rape and pedophilia. If you choose to go with the first and ignore the second (which is usually the case) then I would say check your morals. Last, and not least, there are several Muslim Feminist organizations in Turkey right now that are pro-LGBTQI+ and they offer new perspectives to interpret Quran. I am not a Muslim and I have my own rage, resentment, and anger against Muslims but this does not mean I should act biased against a religion.
Jotham Posted January 9, 2023 Posted January 9, 2023 This was a really insightful video. It reminded me of a lot of discussions that would happen in Catholic schools I attended growing up and the Catholic center I went to during college. These types of interactions were very common between liberal Catholics and conservative Catholics and imo it was very productive as it always enabled conservative Catholics to learn more diverse perspectives about how people practice their faith.
yourcloud Posted January 9, 2023 Posted January 9, 2023 1 hour ago, Terrielle said: People like us seriously need a support group or some **** because nobody has our back honestly Yeah, it is actually frustrating to see fellow queer people going "Actually.." and trying to diminish our experiences and traumas. Sending you support and hugs!
yourcloud Posted January 9, 2023 Posted January 9, 2023 2 minutes ago, StormFury said: This is what I try to get across to people but it's a very sensitive issue. For the record I'm not Muslim, I'm Jewish. I personally don't find the religion itself to be that more violent than the other big Abrahamic ones (including my own), but the religion itself is not the issue. Muslims don't just pick up a Qur'an and think "let me go kill non-Muslims". It all comes down to how we are raised and what governments permit. Up until the 1950s, lynchings were seen as part and parcel with life in the Deep South, until laws enforcing its illegality were enacted. Not that this would happen anytime soon, but if Pakistan were to pass laws legalizing homosexuality AND making it an enforceable crime to kill gay people, things would change very quickly. In terms of Muslims in the West, one point I always make is that governments here should stop accepting Saudi funding for Islamic day schools for children. They support extremist factions and we should not take their money. Well i live in Turkey and being queer is legal here, however there are still bigotry going around in the country, even in it's biggest city, Istanbul. All pride celebrations are prohibited (I got arrested once), if you are openly gay, you can't work in governement (I also got denied from a position and had to settle in for a job with worse salary and conditions) etc and this is just the tip of the iceberg. Sure, Muslims for the most part don't probably go and kill LGBTQ+ people (Actually they do, trans murders are sickeningly high, even in Istanbul, the situation is even worse in the eastern part of the country) but you best believe, most of them will try to do their best to marginalize and hate crime you, in any way they can. And this is the most secular country that declares their religion as Islam. Like, it is really that bad, and probably worse in other countries.
yourcloud Posted January 9, 2023 Posted January 9, 2023 Just now, StormFury said: Under Erdogan it's probably not long until this isn't true, like with recent developments from Indonesia. Yeah it has been a **** show in recent months. The funniest (in a dark way) thing is he was actually supportive (at least compared to the other political figures at the time) towards LGBTQ+ people when he first got elected.
ToMmY Posted January 9, 2023 Posted January 9, 2023 How is that a 'split'? The only one that isn't homophobic is the homosexual.
brazil Posted January 9, 2023 Posted January 9, 2023 Conservatives trying to argue that homosexuality shouldnt be accepted because of THEIRS religious beliefs. I mean, even if youre religious book expressly said that homosexuality is a sin, thats your baseless belief, people shouldn't live according to your dogmas.
yourcloud Posted January 9, 2023 Posted January 9, 2023 (edited) 3 minutes ago, StormFury said: By the way, what I was referring to with the Qur'an example was more along the lines of the reasons why extremist Muslims would kill in the name of Islam. It boils down, how I see it, to how Muslim parents raise their children and what governments say is okay. This goes for all other religions and all other countries as well, even ones with a majority atheist population. Humans value community and we take great influence and pride from our homes, both literal households and nations. Singapore is the most religiously diverse country on Earth with a slim majority Buddhist population, but for reasons including colonialism and "family" values - homosexuality is highly frowned upon and met with crackdowns, although I'm aware it's not as grave as in Sharia countries. Still though, it helps to understand the reasons behind violence, as that puts us closer to mitigating it, even in this situation where we are very far away from that Yeah, i might have misunderstood your tone/stance on that post. Sorry if i sounded too harsh, English being the second language and all, sometimes the nuance gets lost on me. Edited January 9, 2023 by yourcloud
KillingYourCareer Posted January 9, 2023 Posted January 9, 2023 6 hours ago, Dephira said: The “liberal Muslim” wearing a full niqab and saying point blank that “homosexuality is a sin” That made me cackle
RunUpDoneUp Posted January 9, 2023 Posted January 9, 2023 You know what I love about gays against having religious people who work to end homophobia in fundamentalist communities? Nothing because they're an active threat to their own safety. All the young Muslims who fight with their parents and friends in the stead of human rights have my heart. Hard work pays off, always does for social movements.
terrorblade Posted January 9, 2023 Posted January 9, 2023 12 hours ago, yourcloud said: As a former Muslim and a gay man who lives in a place that you can be killed for being gay, Islam is a disease. The most violent organized religion in this day (well at least from the big ones). I want people to actually live in a country like Iran, Malaysia (or even Turkey would be enough) that defends this religion and bashes the queer people who suffered and still suffer emotional trauma because of Islam. I have no problem with Muslim queers. I support them and encourage them in their beliefs and practice Islam to the ends of their desire without hurting anybody. But we can seperate people from the religion, and call a spade, spade.
Monster Megamind Posted January 10, 2023 Posted January 10, 2023 Islam is a whole other beast... They INSIST on never evolving. All liberal Europeans should think twice before taking in refugees. It's going to take a generational effort to change these people's minds
Delirious Posted January 10, 2023 Posted January 10, 2023 Messssssssy thread it always becomes a disaster when islam is discussed
IBeMe Posted January 10, 2023 Posted January 10, 2023 of course in islam's texts it is not permitted but that does not mean one cannot be muslim and STILL accept it. People really think that muslims are either following everything to the T and being extremists or that they are no longer muslims. There is an in between like in EVERY faith yall Tons of muslims wear what they want, drink, are gay or support gays but also connect to the spiritual aspect of islam rather than the strict rules and regulations and ish.
Flanders Posted January 10, 2023 Posted January 10, 2023 Well that’s a lot of progress in just one generation. Hope it develops in a friendlier direction
Before Today Posted January 10, 2023 Posted January 10, 2023 On 1/9/2023 at 1:48 PM, yourcloud said: As a former Muslim and a gay man who lives in a place that you can be killed for being gay, Islam is a disease. The most violent organized religion in this day (well at least from the big ones). I want people to actually live in a country like Iran, Malaysia (or even Turkey would be enough) that defends this religion and bashes the queer people who suffered and still suffer emotional trauma because of Islam. I have no problem with Muslim queers. I support them and encourage them in their beliefs and practice Islam to the ends of their desire without hurting anybody. But we can seperate people from the religion, and call a spade, spade. Girl don't try it here. I was warned several times speaking out the same experience you had. These "inclusive" white gays can't be "inclusive" without virtue-signaling.
Johnny Jacobs Posted January 10, 2023 Posted January 10, 2023 shocking.. the video is down but ill guess the split is from guys and girls?
Communion Posted January 10, 2023 Posted January 10, 2023 9 hours ago, Monster Megamind said: Islam is a whole other beast... They INSIST on never evolving. All liberal Europeans should think twice before taking in refugees. It's going to take a generational effort to change these people's minds What do American citizens born in America have to do with either Europe or refugees?
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