Kevin McCarthy elected Speaker of the House after 14 losses

[Communion]

15 minutes ago, Kassi said:

WikiLeaks was a Russian propaganda front

The point being that it was found through federal investigations that Wikileaks and the Russian government had no connections to one another. You privileged shill. Again, this Maddow-driven BlueAnon conspiracy theory that Wikileaks somehow sabotaged the 2016 election - the only charge that liberals can claim after embarrassing themselves with claims of stolen votes - is that it depends on the claim that Julian Assange, as an independent journalist, had some abstract moral duty to not publish data he received about Hillary and the Democrats because "it inadvertently was sourced from people who didn't like America". 

 

Hillary's corruption becoming public inadvertently helping Trump's electoral prospects is not the problem of the journalists reporting on it - it was the problem for Hillary and the DNC who coronated her by sidelining any challenger she had in the primaries. 

Edited January 8, 2023 by Communion

[Communion]

Just now, Kassi said:

Russia did literally "hack into our election" by hacking US political organizations

[ClashAndBurn]

8 hours ago, Espresso said:

Oh god we're back on this. 

 

My consistent position has always been everyone's going to project what they want within the left (and right quite frankly) onto the 2016 election as to the majority cause for Hillary's loss to fit their narrative with what is still relatively poor data (largely due to deep flaws in the study groups from shy Trump voters and understudied progressives in the upper Midwest) when it was a mixture of all the above. If we want to breakdown that data I can try to find my URL's from like six ****ing years ago but I'm exhausted by it all.

 

Hillary's not absolved of her problems and ****ty campaign of course, Russia didn't change votes (but did access some machines in Florida!), not all black voters should be blamed for top lines being left empty by many of them in the Upper Midwest, just like broad brushes can't be painted on third party voters or stay-homes. Entirely blaming either foreign interference or the voters fooled by it (both documented!) isn't productive as again, we still don't (and never will) have definitive data on say - the Cambridge Analytica psychographic microtargeting of Obama to Trump voters. That goes for the Comey timing when pressured by Giuliani's team at the NYC FBI Field Office with threatened further leaks, Assange and the rest.

 

Absolving Obama to Trump voters of their cultural resentment (that can still exist despite voting for a black man according to the data) to make an argument about bad global trade agreements isn't borne out by the data either. I'm not saying they cancel each out but both play a part. There's conflicting data on what's the majority too - and it's not 70-30 either.

 

I realize and still somewhat sympathize with the argument that we can't move forward unless we settle the past when it comes to 2016, but years later when I break it all down (and I don't claim to be an expert but have worked on the Hill and in campaigns) I realize I can't. Mostly because outside of anecdotes and convenient narratives that people throw around to make themselves feel better there's data (mostly due to national security they say which is partially BS) we'll never receive. I still have endless questions after reading the Senate Intel Report and about 8 books on it. 

 

AOC and Bernie seem to have wholesale abandoned the left and the Jayapal rollout of her so-called Ukraine pushback was abysmal, leaving the Progressive Caucus without anything resembling a spine and dare I say on life support if not dead - seems to be a much more productive conversation to have instead. Briahna may be making great points on say - members only granting interviews to Ryan Grim and other self-proclaimed 'progressive' outlets not questioning the dogma on Speaker challenges to use for the future, but right now - I just see challenges on those members being more productive than the discussion above re: Hillary. If people here are mad at supposedly "progressive media" moving in lockstep with members that don't want to be tested or pressured on challenges to House procedure then challenge those outlets on social media I guess. 

 

So many lessons not learned and not willing to be learned or adopted. My biggest problem with the right at the moment is the greed and my biggest problem with the left is the absolving of the cultural resentment of the right to make economic arguments when both should be tackled. 

That’s the thing is I’d place higher importance on Hillary’s loss to the Comey letter, but liberals want to hyperfixate on Russia and Bernie even daring to run a primary against her as the only reasons she lost. They want to absolve her of all her faults for being a horrendous candidate who campaigned in Georgia to lose there by 5 points when she could have fixated on the states her own ******* husband told her she should have.

 

The left “absolves” the cultural resentment of the right insofar as that’s all liberals only ever acknowledge about them to write them off as deplorable and not worth the effort to win over. The left is also not meaningfully large enough to even be a concern anymore, as Bernie killed it with his fealty to Joe Biden, just as well as AOC killed it with her fealty to Pelosi and now Jeffries.

 

 

[Kassi]

29 minutes ago, Communion said:

The point being that it was found through federal investigations that Wikileaks and the Russian government had no connections to one another. You privileged shill. 

Ok, mama.

 

Quote

The message from WikiLeaks in July 2016 to a group of Russian intelligence officers who prosecutors say were posing as a Romanian hacker named Guccifer 2.0 urged swift action before the opening of the Democratic National Convention that month.

 

WikiLeaks had begun seeking stolen files from Guccifer 2.0 weeks earlier, after revelations that the Democratic National Committee’s server had been hacked, according to private messages cited in an indictment filed Friday by the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III. The organization had told Guccifer that publishing the stolen material on the WikiLeaks site will “have a much higher impact than what you are doing.”

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/15/us/politics/guccifer-russia-mueller.html

Literally swimming uphill against a current of FACTS, but get that workout in! 

[Kassi]

29 minutes ago, Communion said:

Seriously, all props to you tho for trying to unwind the entirety of Mueller's 2-year, 500 page investigation in just a couple of minutes and using a few partisan tweets.

 

One can only admire that type of bold intransigence. I have no doubt you could have gotten Nancy to #FTV had you been in Congress.

[Communion]

21 minutes ago, Kassi said:

Ok, mama.

Quote

posing as a Romanian hacker

WHY WOULD RUSSIAN OFFICIALS HAVE TO PRETEND TO BE 3RD PARTY ROMANIAN HACKERS IF YOUR CLAIM THAT THEY DIRECTLY COLLUDED WITH WIKILEAKS WAS TRUE? "WHY DIDN'T ASSANGE ASSUME EVERY DATA SOURCE WAS SECRETLY RUSSIAN???? DIDN'T HE UNDERSTAND DEMOCRACY ITSELF WAS AT RISK???" 

 

Your entire conspiracy theory relies on the mandate that reporters like Assange are not just to report on hacked materials they haven't yet confirmed aren't being presented to them by other governments in disguise, but to not report on ANY hacked materials that have negative implications about the US Democratic Party because such can harm their electoral prospects. Julian Assange is not a politician. He is a journalist whose reporting does not bare the burden of the inconvenient facts of what he reports. Odd how nothing salacious was ever in any emails or memos that were leaked about the Bernie campaign. Maybe the issue for Clinton's team was the source material itself. 

Edited January 9, 2023 by Communion

[RunUpDoneUp]

So libs are acting like this is a loss for repubs when everyone in the real world not only does not care but this has real consequences.

 

I guess civility politics fails again, huh?