fan base K-Pop Thread: 2023 Archive

[Sheep]

27 minutes ago, Eternium said:

“Everyone could cheat the digital charts, so why does it matter that YG did?” is not a good argument. SM didn’t cheat the charts and so it’s not significant to compare sajaegi’d digital sales to actual digital sales. On top of that, those $.02 sales (and later $0.29) don’t make up very much profit. Even if you look at Cherry Blossom Ending’s 8M digital copies, those $0.29 copies would only be worth about 250k album sales. That would be significantly less for songs released back in the days of $0.02/free downloads.

Bigbang doesn't compete in album sales and dominate digitals/streaming because of their older, male demographic, not Qanon sajaegi conspiracies. To this day their singles are verified hits and trading blows with groups that have jobless rich teens making charts their hobby. BB members are the only non-soloists competing with JYJ on richest idol lists last I checked so the profit argument seems very odd. The money is coming from somewhere and we all know it isn't these millions of free downloads that you're hallucinating. 

27 minutes ago, Eternium said:

TVXQ is big because they changed their identity. Their name was literally DBSK in Korea but because they got so big in Japan, they translated it and it became TVXQ. They established K-Pop in Japan alongside BoA and they were one of the top acts in East Asia, too.

TVXQ is huge because the boy band scene was weaker in the early 00s in Japan and they arrived at the right time to become an enormous craze and were talented enough to sustain it. BoA did much, much more for kpop in Japan because she wasn't seen as too cringe, too foreign(All 5 of them severely struggled with the language in the early days), or too pandering to teen girls in heat. This is the group that was bold enough to put the line really wanna touch myself in Purple Line with a straight face. If a 4th gen group did that kind of pandering they'd be mocked until they were forced to disband, let alone the optics of selling it to CHILDREN. They really weren't respected in Japan the same way they were in Korea until the scandals started rolling in a few years back.

 

27 minutes ago, Eternium said:

Hence them pulling 600k+ with Mirotic in a time where 100k was a groundbreaking number for South Korea. Big Bang can’t even pull 300k in a much, much healthier climate.

They started the trend of garnering a huge fanbase to then inflate album sales in the singles era, I'll give you that. Their predecessors from SM destroyed them in albums and so have several SM groups since though so this is also a weird argument. BB still wins in real music consumption in every country on Earth except for Japan.

 

27 minutes ago, Eternium said:

As far as touring goes, Big Bang has to travel to other countries and do bigger global promotions because they weren’t able to achieve TVXQ’s popularity. TVXQ’s third and fourth most popular members can literally outgross Big Bang with just one country and then sell more in merchandise than they sell from their tickets. On top of that, TVXQ did 16 dates on their last tour and only had to go to 5 venues to pull 710,000 - do you have any idea how much they save just on travel?

 

Saving on travel costs is the funniest way to spin being local I have ever heard in my well over a decade of being a kpop stan. Big Bang could throw darts at a map of Earth and sell out at the bare minimum, an arena in any country they could land on. The only other kpop group capable of that is BTS. 

 

27 minutes ago, Eternium said:

And for the record, I’m not a TVXQ fan. I just think you girls are so quick to discredit them and it’s weird. They outsold BB 3x over and outgrossed them. 

 

For the record, I'm a big fan of both and just get annoyed by the gross over-inflation of TVXQs stats and popularity by the other remaining 2nd gen hags. Big Bang annihilates TVXQ in every country in the world except for one country which is neither their home market OR the biggest market. BB has hugely outgrossed and outsold TVXQ ww. This is a rare instance where Chinese sales count because their Chinese base puts asses in seats when BB announces dates there.

Edited April 10, 2023 by Century

[kendoll2001]

Celine really said A-List only 

 

[Witnessed ET]

1 minute ago, kendoll2001 said:

Celine really said A-List only 

 

Not daddy Bogum showing some thighs 

 

 

 

[Witnessed ET]

Looks like this is the best fancam we’ll ever see of this song

 

 

[New Edition]

12 minutes ago, kendoll2001 said:

Celine really said A-List only 

 

Kpop's Golden Trio 

[Xalric]

8 minutes ago, Witnessed ET said:

Looks like this is the best fancam we’ll ever see of this song

 

 

Yujin ATE the girls I fear.

[New Edition]

More fancams are out for Kitsch and it still looks bad

 

 

 

Shocked they performed O.O I thought they were going to pretend this never existed like Gugudan did that mermaid song

 

 

[Eternium]

27 minutes ago, Century said:

Bigbang doesn't compete in album sales and dominate digitals/streaming because of their older, male demographic, not Qanon sajaegi conspiracies. To this day their singles are verified hits and trading blows with groups that have jobless rich teens making charts their hobby. BB members are the only non-soloists competing with JYJ on richest idol lists last I checked so the profit argument seems very odd. The money is coming from somewhere and we all know it isn't these millions of free downloads that you're hallucinating. 

TVXQ is huge because the boy band scene was weaker in the early 00s in Japan and they arrived at the right time to become an enormous craze and were talented enough to sustain it. BoA did much, much more for kpop in Japan because she wasn't seen as too cringe, too foreign(All 5 of them severely struggled with the language in the early days), or too pandering to teen girls in heat. This is the group that was bold enough to put the line really wanna touch myself in Purple Line with a straight face. If a 4th gen group did that kind of pandering they'd be mocked until they were forced to disband, let alone the optics of selling it to CHILDREN. They really weren't respected in Japan the same way they were in Korea until the scandals started rolling in a few years back.

 

They started the trend of garnering a huge fanbase to then inflate album sales in the singles era, I'll give you that. Their predecessors from SM destroyed them in albums and so have several SM groups since though so this is also a weird argument. BB still wins in real music consumption in every country on Earth except for Japan.

 

Saving on travel costs is the funniest way to spin being local I have ever heard in my well over a decade of being a kpop stan. Big Bang could throw darts at a map of Earth and sell out at the bare minimum, an arena in any country they could land on. The only other kpop group capable of that is BTS. 

 

 

For the record, I'm a big fan of both and just get annoyed by the gross over-inflation of TVXQs stats and popularity by the other remaining 2nd gen hags. Big Bang annihilates TVXQ in every country in the world except for one country which is neither their home market OR the biggest market. BB has hugely outgrossed and outsold TVXQ ww. This is a rare instance where Chinese sales count because their Chinese base puts asses in seats when BB announces dates there.

Isn’t Jae-joong still the richest idol (after JYP) despite being banned from Korea for almost two decades?

 

Your argument doesn’t make any sense. I could argue Big Bang only got big because TVXQ split and left them space in the market. Our theories on why they’re large doesn’t matter - what matters is that TVXQ outsold Big Bang by 3x.

 

TVXQ is second only to EXO in SM for physical sales, sis. And why would it matter if any of them destroyed them? TVXQ sold 8M more albums than Big Bang. Anyone that outsold TVXQ also outsold Big Bang by a huge margin  

 

Also, Big Bang have reported 7 tour dates in their career and only 2 of them were actually sold out. They’ve never had a sold out show outside of Asia.

 

TVXQ has sold 3x as much as Big Bang and they’re the K-pop group with the highest attendance ever for their tours. They were the most profitable K-pop group for years. We can’t compare grosses because box office data isn’t available, but literally Big Bang only beats them in digitals. It’s not enough to erase TVXQ’s success, sis. They were and still are the most successful 2nd gen male group.

[jeanie]

6 hours ago, Mel. said:

I've been noticing a rise in NewJeans' fandom attacking BABYMONSTER on twitter 

they're SHAKING  

 

how does an undebuted group threaten them and their favs already?! 

the way baemon stans started attacking newjeans and they haven't debuted yet 

[Sheep]

8 minutes ago, Eternium said:

TVXQ outsold Big Bang by 3x.

in Japan, not WW, not in Korea. 

 

8 minutes ago, Eternium said:

TVXQ is second only to EXO in SM for physical sales, sis.

This is only true WW, if we change focus to domestic only it changes.

 

8 minutes ago, Eternium said:

 

Also, Big Bang have reported 7 tour dates in their career and only 2 of them were actually sold out. They’ve never had a sold out show outside of Asia.

TVXQ has reported 0

8 minutes ago, Eternium said:

TVXQ has sold 3x as much as Big Bang and they’re the K-pop group with the highest attendance ever for their tours. They were the most profitable K-pop group for years. We can’t compare grosses because box office data isn’t available, but literally Big Bang only beats them in digitals. It’s not enough to erase TVXQ’s success, sis. They were and still are the most successful 2nd gen male group.

Let's compare the impact on stock value of the respective companies challenge. Big Bang is still getting hits. TVXQ hasn't had a hit in more than a decade. This is the most incredulous comparison I've ever heard and I'm baffled that it's coming from somebody who's as reasonable as you usually are. Even non-fans are siding with GD.

Edited April 10, 2023 by Century

[Witnessed ET]

King living his life in Paris and PFW  YSL suits him so much 
 

 

[Xalric]

8 minutes ago, Eternium said:

Isn’t Jae-joong still the richest idol (after JYP) despite being banned from Korea for almost two decades?

 

Your argument doesn’t make any sense. I could argue Big Bang only got big because TVXQ split and left them space in the market. Our theories on why they’re large doesn’t matter - what matters is that TVXQ outsold Big Bang by 3x.

 

TVXQ is second only to EXO in SM for physical sales, sis. And why would it matter if any of them destroyed them? TVXQ sold 8M more albums than Big Bang. Anyone that outsold TVXQ also outsold Big Bang by a huge margin  

 

Also, Big Bang have reported 7 tour dates in their career and only 2 of them were actually sold out. They’ve never had a sold out show outside of Asia.

 

TVXQ has sold 3x as much as Big Bang and they’re the K-pop group with the highest attendance ever for their tours. They were the most profitable K-pop group for years. We can’t compare grosses because box office data isn’t available, but literally Big Bang only beats them in digitals. It’s not enough to erase TVXQ’s success, sis. They were and still are the most successful 2nd gen male group.

Jae Joong said it himself he earned most of money by being smart in investing and being savvy in his real life. He also talked about working part time during his whole trainee days and his whole first year as a member of TVXQ.

[Eternium]

1 minute ago, Century said:

in Japan, not WW, not in Korea. 

 

This is only true WW, if we change focus to domestic only it changes.

 

TVXQ has reported 0

Let's compare the impact on stock value of the respective companies challenge. Big Bang is still getting hits. TVXQ hasn't had a hit in more than a decade. This is the most incredulous comparison I've ever heard and I'm baffled that it's coming from somebody who's as reasonable as you usually are. Even non-fans are siding with GD.

Big Bang’s global sales are less than 4M and TVXQ’s global sales are over 12M. Even if you exclude Japan, TVXQ’s sold over 4M in just Korea, which is more than Big Bang have sold globally.

 

And of course album sales numbers inside SM change if we focus only domestically - TVXQ were the start of second gen right after the market’s downfall. SNSD broke records by hitting 100k in 2007 and TVXQ managed to do 600k a bit more than a year later. They were releasing in K-pop’s weakest market ever and still doubling Big Bang’s peak  

 

And reporting box office score data doesn’t mean anything. However, your claim was that Big Bang could sell out concerts anytime, anywhere. But from the few available pieces of data, we’ve never actually seen Big Bang sell out a concert outside of Asia.

 

Big Bang had an amazing first month for Still Birth and then fell off. I’m not arguing that they aren’t bigger than TVXQ now, but I experienced both groups during their peaks and Big Bang never had the popularity that TVXQ did. Big Bang were more of a Katy Perry with occasional GP hits, occasional payola-fueled hits and decent album sales (they are #4 for their gen, I think, after TVXQ, SuJu and SHINee). TVXQ were a phenomenon but they wasted a ton of their potential by splitting the group too early. Still, they’re #1 in physicals, #1 in touring and #1 in net worth (Jaejoong is the idol with the second highest net worth ever).

 

I could understand you guys coming for me defending TVXQ if I was just sharing feelings, but these are all facts fueled by receipts. But who knows, if Big Bang can get their act together and get back to touring and releasing physicals, maybe they can finally pass TVXQ/SNSD and become the top 2nd gen act in a few years.

[Eternium]

7 minutes ago, Xalric said:

Jae Joong said it himself he earned most of money by being smart in investing and being savvy in his real life. He also talked about working part time during his whole trainee days and his whole first year as a member of TVXQ.

I’m well aware that net worth can be arbitrary and is not just solely dependent on artist’s success, nor do we even have true confirmed numbers for any artist’s networth. However, one of the points Century used was that Big Bang was bigger because their estimated networth is higher. I just had to remind her that even if we use that logic, Jaejoong is still richer than any of them. I feel like the girls forget he’s a super successful actor and businessman, too.

 

Only the original Successica Jung  

[Witnessed ET]

even a fairly popular vocal analysis channel like this is talking about this, and they made SEVERAL points I fear 

 

 

[Xalric]

I mean TVXQ as whole music wise is worth 30M$+ but Jaejoong is worth 100M$+.

BIGBANG music as a whole is worth 40M$+ but T.O.P and GD networth are around 60M+.

But then we can talk about group that made millions but have members whose networth is damn near poverty, looking at you Himchan from B.A.P.

[harrythevifan]

4 minutes ago, Xalric said:

But then we can talk about group that made millions but have members whose networth is damn near poverty, looking at you Himchan from B.A.P.

According to the prospectus, they made a lot of money touring.  But in reality, when you take out the travel fees, the venue fees, the giving away tickets fees, they didn't make any money at all.

 

Edited April 10, 2023 by harrythevifan

[Sheep]

16 minutes ago, Eternium said:

Big Bang’s global sales are less than 4M and TVXQ’s global sales are over 12M. Even if you exclude Japan, TVXQ’s sold over 4M in just Korea, which is more than Big Bang have sold globally.

BB is a singles act and you’re comparing pure albums. Even album equivalents would tip the scales and that’s why you’re probably too eager to pretend their sales are majority fake.

 

16 minutes ago, Eternium said:

They were releasing in K-pop’s weakest market ever and still doubling Big Bang’s peak  

TVXQ didn’t have entire albums in the top 10 ever, not in any country. They had comparable Korean and Japanese attendance, outside of East Asia BB destroyed them in attendance.

 

16 minutes ago, Eternium said:

Big Bang never had the popularity that TVXQ did. Big Bang were more of a Katy Perry with occasional GP hits

Literally every song GD touches is a hit, including the majority of b-sides for over a decade. No US artist is comparable and no hits since 2011 TVXQ definitely can’t. Occasional hits is not the correct wording here. Guaranteed mega-smashes every time he walks into a studio is.

 

TVXQ’s peak was enormous and the biggest we had seen at the time and I’m not trying to take anything away from that, but BB surpassed them and made kpop a global phenomenon just a few years later. Not even SNSD, the most beloved idol group, can compete. 
 

13 minutes ago, Eternium said:

However, one of the points Century used was that Big Bang was bigger because their estimated networth is higher.

You claimed BBs digitals were fraud and that even if they weren’t that their hits weren’t profitable. TVXQ has one famously wealthy ex-member. Bigbang has 3, it’s a fair comparison when you’re throwing out dollar numbers.

 

Repeatedly throwing out the profit argument invites money talk.

Edited April 10, 2023 by Century

[Mel.]

31 minutes ago, jeanie said:

the way baemon stans started attacking newjeans and they haven't debuted yet 

The lies. Please

BABYMONSTER have been attacked unprovoked by NJ stans

 

like, why would they even attack NJ? That doesn’t even sound right. They have no reason to. I haven’t seen any BM stan come for NJ

[Mel.]

6 days til PINKCHELLA!

[Sheep]

BB peaked after digitals and before the bulk buy collectible albums. Using pure albums as the only base to compare their popularity is like comparing Taylor Swift’s cassette sales to Paula Abdul’s and concluding Paula was bigger as a whole. 

[Mel.]

Oh wow, this eats!

now I wanna hear a real cover by Rosie

 

 

 

[MonsterNavy]

waiT

 

[Pluto6]

5 minutes ago, Century said:

Using pure albums as the only base to compare their popularity is like comparing Taylor Swift’s cassette sales to Paula Abdul’s and concluding Paula was bigger as a whole. 

Well isn’t she

[Get]

22 minutes ago, Xalric said:

I mean TVXQ as whole music wise is worth 30M$+ but Jaejoong is worth 100M$+.

BIGBANG music as a whole is worth 40M$+ but T.O.P and GD networth are around 60M+.

But then we can talk about group that made millions but have members whose networth is damn near poverty, looking at you Himchan from B.A.P.

All those numbers are likely fake.

Edited April 10, 2023 by Get