discussion Why Are Meat Eaters So Bad In Debates?

[Kassi]

Just now, Armani? said:

Not a argument 

That humans are omnivores? There’s nothing to argue. It’s a fact, mama. 

[ugo]

I dont think there’s any need to explain ourselves, diet is a choice. Eat what you want without preaching about it. 

[Kassi]

Anyway, nothing wrong with vegan/vegetarianism if you can swing it. It just doesn’t work for everyone, everywhere across the world.

 

I find meat annoyingly expensive. So I probably go meat-free if it didn’t make growing muscles such an hassle, thereby preventing me from having hot sex. 

[Armani?]

5 minutes ago, Kassi said:

That humans are omnivores? There’s nothing to argue. It’s a fact, mama. 

Teeth? No. 

 

Eyes? No

 

Hands? No

 

Brain? No. The brain's preferred use of energy is glucose.

https://hms.harvard.edu/news-events/publications-archive/brain/sugar-brain#:~:text=Glucose%2C a form of sugar,sugar energy in the body.

 

[PMKARDASHIAN]

On 12/4/2022 at 11:58 PM, Isaiah said:

Because literally nobody cares  go outside, touch grass, & you’ll realize nobody owes you justification for eating a cheeseburger 

This. Never have I once encountered such heated discussions that are all over ATRL, and social media as a whole, in real life. I work with vegans who see me eat meat every day for lunch and they are just as nice and pleasant as could be. They’ve brought me in vegan meals which were incredible but they don’t view me, or at the very least act, as if I’m some monster or degenerate or Neanderthal for my dietary consumption. 

The cause is noble, and i do stand for the ethical treatment and production reform of the whole movement, but the extremists really cause more damage than good with their antics. 
 

[Kassi]

12 minutes ago, Armani? said:

Teeth? No. 

 

Eyes? No

 

Hands? No

 

Brain? No. The brain's preferred use of energy is glucose.

 

 

Omnivore is a behavioral classification. All humans societies eat meat and have since the pre-historic cave drawings depicting hunts. And our two closest animal relatives also eat meat.

 

This is what people mean when they say veganism gets radical. For no reason at all. The argument should be humans eat TOO much meat. 

[Armani?]

Just now, Kassi said:

Omnivore is a behavioral classification. All humans societies eat meat and have since the pre-historic cave drawings depicting hunts. And our two closest animal relatives also eat meat.

 

This is what people mean when they say veganism gets radical. For no reason at all. 

Omnivore is also a biological & evolutionary classification.

 

It is true humans were sometimes opportunistic in history in tough conditions, but that isnt respective in health outcomes in the present day for meat consumption 

 

The more plantbased a diet is, the longer and healthier humans live on average.

 

Humans also cant produce their own Vitamin C. We are dependent on plants to survive, not so much meat in normal circumstances.

[Chiidish]

Most people who eat meat have never actually had a full philosophical debate, never researched, and never made conscious food decisions.

 

When I eat meat I know that it’s bad, environmentally and morally. I just choose to eat it even if it’s less than most people and accept that I’m contributing to part of a much larger problem instead of trolling vegans as a gotcha moment.  

[Kamil24]

1 hour ago, Armani? said:

Comparing paying to kill a animal to driving a car 

 

You proved the OP's point, by being disingenuous 

Because humans are disingenuous. Nothing vegans say will change that and people will keep eating meat because it tastes good to them. 

[Femalien]

 

[RunUpDoneUp]

What I really love about this is, nothing changes for anyone as long as the meat industry continues operating the same as always.

 

Philosophy has to be practical and accepted to be worth a damn and when no one likes you, you have no messengers worth listening to and you're woefully boring; you're done.

[John Slayne]

because they never actually thought about their eating habits, so they have no idea on the wider impact their diet has on the environment, loss of habitat, other living beings, etc.

 

most vegans came to veganism by reading and educating themselves on animal exploitation, so they understand the reality of the food industry a lot better. to put it bluntly, carnists just accepted whatever diet was thrown at them without questioning it and when they hear vegan arguments it makes them insecure about their own diets so they have to hurl insults to make vegans look bad so they can justify meat-eating to themselves.

 

for the record, i'm vegetarian not vegan but i am very vegan friendly and try to eat vegan wherever possible. i have many vegan friends and the stereotype of preachy vegans is not true at all. if anything, meat-eaters in my life are A LOT more combative and aggressive about their diet. 

[Outlaws]

Vegans are so freaking annoying. Just go vegan and SHUT UP.

[pavi]

On 12/5/2022 at 2:10 AM, CaptainMusic said:

Makes me laugh how vegans don’t want us to eat animals because they’re defending the lives of animals who…eat other animals  

I'm not vegan and I eat meat sometimes, but this has to be the most bullshit argument I've ever seen around this topic  As if the way we consume meat is ANYTHING close to how animals eat other animals in the wild  

 

The way we bred those animals into forms where they are physically hurting their entire life, the way we treat them during their miserable life, the HUGE amounts of co2-emissions because of the way we produce meat (around 10% of all emisions, or maybe even higher, comes from meat production, compared to for example 3% from flying), the high risk of new pandemics because of how many animals we place together, the amount of rainforest that disappears because we wanna feed those animals soy (you need ten times mor soy to make one meat burger than one soy burger because of how much soy animals need).. it's just not comparable to the way animals eat meat. At all 

 

With the amount of money governments throw at meat production every year to support it, we could've easily produced more decent meat substitues by now, or even cultured meat, and get rid of all the negative effects while still enjoying the taste and nutrients.

 

Anyways, I can still respect your choice if you just like meat too much and are willing to accept all the negative side effects. That's honest. I do the same by eating meat now and then and still consuming dairy. But don't hide behind some bullshit argument to make yourself seem better 

Edited December 7, 2022 by pavi

[spree]

I lift weights, therefore I eat meat.

[GraceRandolph]

11 hours ago, pavi said:

I'm not vegan and I eat meat sometimes, but this has to be the most bullshit argument I've ever seen around this topic  As if the way we consume meat is ANYTHING close to how animals eat other animals in the wild  

 

The way we bred those animals into forms where they are physically hurting their entire life, the way we treat them during their miserable life, the HUGE amounts of co2-emissions because of the way we produce meat (around 10% of all emisions, or maybe even higher, comes from meat production, compared to for example 3% from flying), the high risk of new pandemics because of how many animals we place together, the amount of rainforest that disappears because we wanna feed those animals soy (you need ten times mor soy to make one meat burger than one soy burger because of how much soy animals need).. it's just not comparable to the way animals eat meat. At all 

 

With the amount of money governments throw at meat production every year to support it, we could've easily produced more decent meat substitues by now, or even cultured meat, and get rid of all the negative effects while still enjoying the taste and nutrients.

 

Anyways, I can still respect your choice if you just like meat too much and are willing to accept all the negative side effects. That's honest. I do the same by eating meat now and then and still consuming dairy. But don't hide behind some bullshit argument to make yourself seem better 

The argument suck. It’s like… even Muslims and Christians make better arguments for their religions than meat eaters can make for their carnism. 

[GraceRandolph]

On 12/4/2022 at 7:06 PM, Danny789 said:

Vegans have a flawed strategy because the majority of humans do not find eating animals inherently immoral (morality being a man made concept) the true fight has to be to end factory farming and the way to do that is not by shaming other people but by pressuring our governments to invest into lab grown meat. That really is the future, not a plant based society. 

Citation needed? Even so, isn’t consent a man made concept? 

[GraceRandolph]

On 12/6/2022 at 8:51 PM, Femalien said:

 

As if there aren’t plenty of thin meat eaters, and eating disorders can affect anyone no matter their original diet.

[ToMmY]

On 12/4/2022 at 9:05 PM, GraceRandolph said:

Do meat eaters know they are wrong? 

Perhaps we are, but we don't care and we will continue bullying y'all. Cry about it.

[Blackout2006]

I do think we all can definitely reduce our meat consumption for the sake of the environment, but to expect the entire world to go a lifetime without touching meat? There are many people who are obliged to eat meat, simply because of the better protein intake being within such items of food (you can bring up the examples of gram and lentils but I think those are type of foods that can generate a lot of bloating issues in the future for a person). Not only that but veganism can also be a costly affair. 

 

Also, aren't some of you guys choosing to ignore that a sudden demand for more vegetables and fruits can cause a serious increase in deforestation for the sake of agricultural purposes? I am from India and one of the main problems over there for deforestation is because of the demands of hundreds of millions of vegetarians whose needs have to be satisfied. I don't have any problem with the vegetarian diet but to act like there wouldn't be another environmental crisis if 8,000,000,000 humans choose to become vegetarian? If one human requires 4-6 cups of vegetable and fruits together, you can carry on the maths by your own and see the incoming disaster.  

 

What is really important rather is that the world shouldn't start depending too much on meat or too much on vegetables. A disaster is either way, impending if we choose any one of these extremes. We are omnivores for a reason

Edited December 8, 2022 by Blackout2006

[Uncatena]

this argument is always so entertaining

 

the only thing I'll say on the subject matter is that if you genuinely believe there is nothing wrong with battery farms, no matter if you eat meat or don't, and the way meat is produced currently, you are a heartless, cruel person. period.

 

also, the all or nothing mentality that a lot of vegans have is doing more harm than good. accept that we will never, ever live in a vegan world and thinking every single person can go vegan is a privileged, delusional point of view. 

Edited December 8, 2022 by ChapelHooker

[Gui Blackout]

Why do vegans think anyone owns them an explanation about what they eat 

 

No one cares, just shut up eat you kale 

[pavi]

59 minutes ago, Blackout2006 said:

Also, aren't some of you guys choosing to ignore that a sudden demand for more vegetables and fruits can cause a serious increase in deforestation for the sake of agricultural purposes? I am from India and one of the main problems over there for deforestation is because of the demands of hundreds of millions of vegetarians whose needs have to be satisfied. I don't have any problem with the vegetarian diet but to act like there wouldn't be another environmental crisis if 8,000,000,000 humans choose to become vegetarian? If one human requires 4-6 cups of vegetable and fruits together, you can carry on the maths by your own and see the incoming disaster.  

I don't think this is true. Most deforestation (at least in South-America, for example) is to produce soy and more than three-quarters (77%) of global soy is fed to livestock for meat and dairy production. To produce one burger of meat you need ten times more soy than for a soy burger. If we were to choose to just eat products made by soy instead of meat, we would actually need less soy. This would put a stop to a large part of the deforestation. I could guess the same thing is also true for more types of food we now produce for animals that we could actually consume ourselves. I think about the huge amount of grain fields, corn fields, and so on. We're also becoming better and better at producing vegetables and fruits in vertical farms. In the Netherlands there's one building where they can harvest lettuce every 17 days, instead of just five times a year from land, and it's almost climate-neutral too! All money that governments throw at the meat business could be used to invest in these kind of developments to prevent the problem you're painting here

[Gaia]

On 12/4/2022 at 6:49 PM, Digitalism said:

Because they simple don't care about what vegans say

This.

 

i truly do not care what you do or what you have to say. That’s really all it is

[Blackout2006]

7 minutes ago, pavi said:

I don't think this is true. Most deforestation (at least in South-America, for example) is to produce soy and more than three-quarters (77%) of global soy is fed to livestock for meat and dairy production. To produce one burger of meat you need ten times more soy than for a soy burger. If we were to choose to just eat products made by soy instead of meat, we would actually need less soy. This would put a stop to a large part of the deforestation. I could guess the same thing is also true for more types of food we now produce for animals that we could actually consume ourselves. I think about the huge amount of grain fields, corn fields, and so on. We're also becoming better and better at producing vegetables and fruits in vertical farms. In the Netherlands there's one building where they can harvest lettuce every 17 days, instead of just five times a year from land, and it's almost climate-neutral too! All money that governments throw at the meat business could be used to invest in these kind of developments to prevent the problem you're painting here

Okay, so I've looked into it a bit and found out quite the contrary so I acknowledge your point and apologize  However, I still do believe that if we were to lean into any of extreme sides, we will just see environmental issues get worse.