discussion What's the goal of the anti-woke movement? To make everyone straight again?

[anti-bitch]

10 minutes ago, ButterflyXIII said:

they get a lot of engagement which shows that other people align themselves with the same ideological standard, so we can agree to disagree on that one.

 

i agree on the second point though. these teachers obviously care about these children and don’t want them to grow up without feeling supported or represented, but they’re also failing to acknowledge that it’s such a complex and nuanced issue that isn’t meant for kids that young to understand.

They get engagement because they are so shocking. I don't think that many people agree with them.

 

And sex ed itself is a sensitive topic ofc, but it can be graded to be appropriate for different ages. Like, girls can get periods at 9 already, or even earlier, so at least they should know about the possibility of it by then. And for boys everything happens a bit later, but they also start having/asking questions at 12 or before. And you can't be worried about the woke crazies and think that all this easy access to por*n online is ok. That's what really corrupts kids. And by corrupting I mean exposing to hardcore content. Never mind the sexual orientation of it.

Edited November 26, 2022 by anti-bitch

[Archetype]

39 minutes ago, anti-***** said:

younger generations increasingly identify as LGBTQ, support for gay marriage is going up every year, and church attendance is falling/people are becoming more atheist/agnostic.

Yes and they won't have children, and those that do will only have maybe 1-2 kids.  Conservatives procreate like rabbits, you do the math.  

 

I wouldn't lump Elon in there because I don't think he has anything against the LGBTQ+ community, he just interacts with people who do on occasion.  

 

@OP The goal is to regain power and control obviously.  Wokeness poses the biggest threat to established hierarchy, and some super woke people come across as mentally unhinged, making them easy targets to take down.  People who dislike wokeness range from ultra-conservative and alt-right to moderate Democrats, even some progressives hate wokeness.  It's sad, because at it's core, being "woke" is really just about wanting everyone to have the same opportunities and basic protections, quality education and healthcare, affordable quality housing, etc.  

[ButterflyXIII]

4 minutes ago, swissman said:

But plenty of complex and nuanced issues are taught to children from birth, basically. Race, gender, sexuality, religion, etc. are all either enforced or exposed to kids via the media, parents and schools and they generally are not given to the kids via a "here's the options!" style teaching but THIS is the right way.
 

And every single topic just requires an appropriate way of doing informing kids. For newer things, of course there is going to be some working out on what the best way to do it is...but total ignorance should not be the answer just because it's in its preliminary phases.

i agree with you, though those other concepts taught during childhood don’t potentially lead children down pathways that have lasting medical implications.

 

teachers need to think a lot more carefully about their approach moving forward.

Edited November 26, 2022 by ButterflyXIII
o

[anti-bitch]

Just now, Archetype said:

Yes and they won't have children, and those that do will only have maybe 1-2 kids.  Conservatives procreate like rabbits, you do the math.  

 

I wouldn't lump Elon in there because I don't think he has anything against the LGBTQ+ community, he just interacts with people who do on occasion.  

 

@OP The goal is to regain power and control obviously.  Wokeness poses the biggest threat to established hierarchy, and some super woke people come across as mentally unhinged, making them easy targets to take down.  People who dislike wokeness range from ultra-conservative and alt-right to moderate Democrats, even some progressives hate wokeness.  It's sad, because at it's core, being "woke" is really just about wanting everyone to have the same opportunities and basic protections, quality education and healthcare, affordable quality housing, etc.  

Didn't Elon's trans daughter just cut ties to him? And he blamed "communism" for it. https://www.advocate.com/transgender/2022/10/11/elon-musk-says-communism-caused-rift-transgender-daughter

[anti-bitch]

2 minutes ago, ButterflyXIII said:

teachers need to think a lot more carefully about their approach moving forward.

But so need the parents!! I guarantee you most teachers are just fine. It's at home where the problems are. Many parents forcing kids to be straight, cis and pray to Jesus. That's why they choose home schooling. That's the real indoctrination. 

[ButterflyXIII]

1 minute ago, anti-***** said:

But so need the parents!! I guarantee you most teachers are just fine. It's at home where the problems are. Many parents forcing kids to be straight, cis and pray to Jesus. That's why they choose home schooling. That's the real indoctrination. 

oh definitely, i come from a devout muslim household where i was told almost daily that gay people are disgusting and deserve to be stoned.

 

i don’t see that changing much though; we have power over our education systems and can amend their syllabuses, but not the minds of parents. 

[swissman]

9 minutes ago, ButterflyXIII said:

i agree with you, though these other concepts taught during childhood don’t potentially lead children down pathways that have lasting medical implications.

 

teachers need to think a lot more carefully about their approach moving forward.

Sure, there needs to be a careful approach but there is never a good solution when criticism of teaching kids about gender is brought up, at least not from the anti-woke group. It's always an attempt to legally force teachers to say absolutely nothing about it, which in turn can harm kids. The very fact that anyone has to "come out" is a lasting implication of cis-heteronormativity and for many it is not an easy process, nor something that is met with acceptance from friends and family. What about the implications on a child becuase they spent their formative years hiding their true self and never being happy with who they are? There does need to be balance, but the anti-woke insistence on villfiying any attempt at this is really the issue, I think.

 

Edited November 26, 2022 by swissman

[brazil]

33 minutes ago, swissman said:

I think the "woke" movement being about realizing the inbalances in power structures, the unfair treatment of SOME people, the expansion of understanding about gender, race, ability, religion, etc. means the anti-woke movement just wants us all to go back to a time when people didn't have the voice to call out injustice, or felt they had the personal power to go against the general system.

 

People who are anti-woke really just want everyone else to not talk about issues and pretend like the 1950s were ideal for everyone, not just people like them (ie. white Christian straight people).

 

And the cherry-picking of probelmatic "woke" people doesn't really prove anything. There are going to be stupid people of all times, saying and doing things that are awkard or outright wrong.

 

11 minutes ago, swissman said:

I find it hilarious that anyone thinks saying "you can be whatever gender you want, you can love whoever you want" etc. is considered "brainwashing" but "you can only be the one gender assigned to you at birth" and "you must be attracted to the opposite sex" despite the documentation that neither are true is...not brainwashing.

 

 

Great posts. I always laug when people try to argue that teaching kids and teens about same sex marriage and gay rights will "indoctrinate" them... but somehow being forced to learn a religion etc isn't "indoctrination 

[swissman]

I find the idea that since conservatives procreate more they're suddenly going to outnumber liberals to be a bit faulty, when even the most liberal person in 1900 would be considered conservative by today's standards. Though conservative values do get inherited, it's not as if every child takes them on, and we know this because of how many people have issues with their family (even straight people), let alone the huge numbers of people who are part of the LGBTQ+ community who come from conservative and/or religious households.

 

Maybe I am just being hopeful, but if political thinking was just about who your parents are, we would have no progress.

[harwee]

Quote

what is the goal of the anti-woke

 

to get a lot of click$

[anti-bitch]

1 minute ago, ButterflyXIII said:

oh definitely, i come from a devout muslim household where i was told almost daily that gay people are disgusting and deserve to be stoned.

 

i don’t see that changing much though; we have power over our education systems and can amend their syllabuses, but not the minds of parents. 

And that's my beef with the anti-woke folks, that they make educating more difficult but give the parents a total pass. I hope we could find a healthy balance somewhere between.

[anti-bitch]

3 minutes ago, swissman said:

I find the idea that since conservatives procreate more they're suddenly going to outnumber liberals to be a bit faulty, when even the most liberal person in 1900 would be considered conservative by today's standards. Though conservative values do get inherited, it's not as if every child takes them on, and we know this because of how many people have issues with their family (even straight people), let alone the huge numbers of people who are part of the LGBTQ+ community who come from conservative and/or religious households.

 

Maybe I am just being hopeful, but if political thinking was just about who your parents are, we would have no progress.

Yeah, I haven't seen a political affiliation breakdown of it, but birth rates are down in general. But even that is likely just becoming more realistic, that people always wanted maybe one or two kids, and not ten.

[Arthoe]

the goal of the anti-woke movement is, and has always been, a facist police state with state mandated classes of people: those who deserve to live, and those who deserve to be killed.

[Archetype]

20 minutes ago, anti-***** said:

Didn't Elon's trans daughter just cut ties to him? And he blamed "communism" for it. https://www.advocate.com/transgender/2022/10/11/elon-musk-says-communism-caused-rift-transgender-daughter

I think so but that has nothing to do with her being trans

[anti-bitch]

Just now, Archetype said:

I think so but that has nothing to do with her being trans

But how do you know that? And I think she knows Elon better than we do. It would be dumb to give up that inheritance otherwise. And I lump Elon in the anti-wokes because that's what all his recent tweets and replies have been about. Although idk if he really cares that much. He might be just driving up the drama to get more traffic on twitter.

[Literature]

The goal is to cling onto the remaining remnants of religiosity left. They know religion will be entirely forgotten in the near future.

[jadeabove]

1 hour ago, anti-***** said:

I mean, I really wonder what these Elon Musks and Ben Shapiros of the world think is gonna happen in the future. The megatrends are clear: younger generations increasingly identify as LGBTQ, support for gay marriage is going up every year, and church attendance is falling/people are becoming more atheist/agnostic.

 

I guess they want everyone to be straight, cis and religious. But that's not gonna happen. That ship has sailed.

Well, that’s the thing, they think these two are correlated so the cheap answer for this issue for them is more religion and church and less gays.

[YellowRibbon]

They are people with a lot of repressed frustrations about their own lives, so they look at people that according to them should not be happy when the entire system is against them and think "what the actual f*ck, how is this person with lots of more handicaps happy while I'm not?" Then the conspiracy theories take over and they blame their own failures on minorities.

[anti-bitch]

7 minutes ago, YellowRibbon said:

They are people with a lot of repressed frustrations about their own lives, so they look at people that according to them should not be happy when the entire system is against them and think "what the actual f*ck, how is this person with lots of more handicaps happy while I'm not?" Then the conspiracy theories take over and they blame their own failures on minorities.

Yeah, regarding gay marriage, I've seen people say that "let them be miserable too" in marriage. So it's almost like being happy in 2022 is a foreign concept.

Edited November 26, 2022 by anti-bitch

[Communion]

1 hour ago, anti-***** said:

I mean, I really wonder what these Elon Musks and Ben Shapiros of the world think is gonna happen in the future. The megatrends are clear: younger generations increasingly identify as LGBTQ, support for gay marriage is going up every year, and church attendance is falling/people are becoming more atheist/agnostic.

 

I guess they want everyone to be straight, cis and religious. But that's not gonna happen. That ship has sailed.

 

1 hour ago, DonSiblon said:

This is the woke movement today and it will be the downfall of America > 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Nano said:

Plenty of gay and bisexual people are anti-woke. Get out of your echo chamber.

 

1 hour ago, anti-***** said:

I think the extreme elements on both sides are a problem.

The way this thread is a microcosm of weak liberalism claiming to care about something, right-wing reactionaries lying about a topic, and like a leaf in the wind liberalism being like "I'm not sure actually so I'll give you props for maybe knowing more than I do". 

 

Literally the videos she showed:

- Young first-time teacher straight out of college having anxiety about how young children will react to their gender expression and how to answer questions in ways that would be understandable and low-key. 

Literally the issue is that this person is queer and young. That's Blaire's assertion here. Her only comment is a fallacy that somehow any of this detracts from a full curriculum of learning. Would any of you feel this way about a young gay man expressing to his circle of friends online worries about if the young kids he'll be teaching asked him why his voice was so feminine or why he "walked like a girl"?

 

- Teacher says that they would respect if a child went by a name in school that they didn't want to be preferred to with their parent.

Again, laws exist to protect teachers for when they have a suspicion that harm can be done to the child. Children are owed varying degrees of privacy. 

 

- Teacher says that racism exists. Blaire says... "in your opinion"??

 

- Teacher participated in event held by school's GSA and gave a 10 minute talk about LGBT issues, as an LGBT teacher. See the same old fallacy of "what about geometry???"

 

- Teacher's student says they know their teacher is nonbinary. Blaire calls them a narcissist for not being closeted. 

 

- Teacher uses gender-inclusive language in classroom; tells other queer teachers to be patient with administrators who may be confused about why this is a thing that should be used. Blaire just calls them loud & annoying?

 

- Woman doesn't know where her classroom's flag is anymore cause it got lost when they offline. 

Literally this might be the only one that would have some room to criticize, but not for "indoctrination of ideology" but because it's unprofessional of a teacher to share on her tiktok that she lost something. Like that's break room gossip that you share with other teachers for a laugh. But again... this is also 2022, where our society's entire purpose is oversharing with strangers on the internet. Not really "woke" or "extreme".

 

So please enlighten us to what is extreme in this video out of:
- Being queer and being a teacher
- Acknowledging privacy laws exist for children
- There is systemic racism in America

- Participating in extra-curricular activities as a supervisor while being queer

- Being queer and being a teacher, again

- Using inclusive language

- Not feeling compelled to look for a lost American flag ?? 

 

Let alone, Blaire is using the term "Groomer" in the thumbnail. TO GROOM IS TO ENSURE YOU CREATE A DEEP, PERSONAL BOND WITH SOMEONE THAT OPENS THEM UP TO A SEXUAL RELATIONSHIP WITH YOU. GROOMING IS NOT "MY SON'S TEACHER IS LIBERAL AND I DON'T LIKE IT!!!". 

[Communion]

1 hour ago, ButterflyXIII said:

unfortunately it’s not just a few crazies anymore, and that’s the problem.

 

1 hour ago, ButterflyXIII said:

lead children down pathways that have lasting medical implications

 

The math finally mathing. 

[anti-bitch]

2 minutes ago, Communion said:

 

 

 

The way this thread is a microcosm of weak liberalism claiming to care about something, right-wing reactionaries lying about a topic, and like a leaf in the wind liberalism being like "I'm not sure actually so I'll give you props for maybe knowing more than I do". 

 

Literally the videos she showed:

- Young first-time teacher straight out of college having anxiety about how young children will react to their gender expression and how to answer questions in ways that would be understandable and low-key. 

Literally the issue is that this person is queer and young. That's Blaire's assertion here. Her only comment is a fallacy that somehow any of this detracts from a full curriculum of learning. Would any of you feel this way about a young gay man expressing to his circle of friends online worries about if the young kids he'll be teaching asked him why his voice was so feminine or why he "walked like a girl"?

 

- Teacher says that they would respect if a child went by a name in school that they didn't want to be preferred to with their parent.

Again, laws exist to protect teachers for when they have a suspicion that harm can be done to the child. Children are owed varying degrees of privacy. 

 

- Teacher says that racism exists. Blaire says... "in your opinion"??

 

- Teacher participated in event held by school's GSA and gave a 10 minute talk about LGBT issues, as an LGBT teacher. See the same old fallacy of "what about geometry???"

 

- Teacher's student says they know their teacher is nonbinary. Blaire calls them a narcissist for not being closeted. 

 

- Teacher uses gender-inclusive language in classroom; tells other queer teachers to be patient with administrators who may be confused about why this is a thing that should be used. Blaire just calls them loud & annoying?

 

- Woman doesn't know where her classroom's flag is anymore cause it got lost when they offline. 

Literally this might be the only one that would have some room to criticize, but not for "indoctrination of ideology" but because it's unprofessional of a teacher to share on her tiktok that she lost something. Like that's break room gossip that you share with other teachers for a laugh. But again... this is also 2022, where our society's entire purpose is oversharing with strangers on the internet. Not really "woke" or "extreme".

 

So please enlighten us to what is extreme in this video out of:
- Being queer and being a teacher
- Acknowledging privacy laws exist for children
- There is systemic racism in America

- Participating in extra-curricular activities as a supervisor while being queer

- Being queer and being a teacher, again

- Using inclusive language

- Not feeling compelled to look for a lost American flag ?? 

 

Let alone, Blaire is using the term "Groomer" in the thumbnail. TO GROOM IS TO ENSURE YOU CREATE A DEEP, PERSONAL BOND WITH SOMEONE THAT OPENS THEM UP TO A SEXUAL RELATIONSHIP WITH YOU. GROOMING IS NOT "MY SON'S TEACHER IS LIBERAL AND I DON'T LIKE IT!!!". 

I shouldn't have quoted that video. I just meant something like if parents force their kids gender neutral against their will. Gender sensitivity rather would consider the child's feelings. That's not an anti-transitioning take. I said how problematic it is how Blaire only ever shows detransitioners. And I had the convo about sex ed and age appropriateness with someone else. We could argue about what could/should be taught and when. But I'm definitely pro-sex ed.

 

And then if you saw the Balenciaga ad with the BDSM teddy. And overall the pushing of kinks in what's supposed to be SFW media and/or pride events. That's the extreme element. Though obviously not every liberal agrees with that. It's not weak to talk about these things.

[ButterflyXIII]

12 minutes ago, Communion said:

 

 

The math finally mathing. 

so you support the medical transitioning of prepubescent children? good to know!

[Communion]

4 minutes ago, ButterflyXIII said:

so you support the medical transitioning of prepubescent children? good to know!

Can you give the timestamp in the video you linked where medical transitioning was discussed? The vast majority of doctors within America - Blaire's country - support the usage of puberty blockers to aid in ailing gender dysphoria, but how does not standing for the pledge of allegiance or having a gay teacher lead to medical decisions? Use your words. Articulate them. Think hard.

Edited November 26, 2022 by Communion

[Sheep]

If you’re convinced there’s a group of bad guys out there trying to attack you specifically, stopping them becomes more important than any specific policy.

 

The anti-woke movement is about getting the middle class to vote against their own self interest by frenzying them about pronouns to a degree where they don’t even care about things like wages or taxes anymore. Morons, all of them. The only victors in the culture war will be the oligarchs. 

Edited November 26, 2022 by Century