celeb news Taylor Swift dubbed the "New Queen of Pop" by Official Charts

[stevyy]

1 hour ago, momal said:

1.it was harder but it wasn't impossible. Whitney was the first female to debut at #1, the first one to have #1 year-end album in the US. Madonna wasn't on her level

2.maybe debut weeks not, but even there Whitney got 1 million selling weeks with the Bodyguard, Celine was doing 800 000 copies, Madonna never came close

3.nobody cares about those cheap ass club sales where you could buy 12 albums for $1, they shouldn't even be counted. SHIPMENTS AND CHEAP ASS CLUB SALES were inflating the actual albums sales

4.no, she is not. 

5.idgaf what the industry says, the only reason that the soundtrack sold so much was because of MHWGO. AVATAR was bigger than Titanic yet its soundtrack completely flopped. ASIB soundtrack smashed, yet TP flopped. Why? Because the gp didn't like the music. 

Ah, OK. So, Madonna is a 360 million records selling flop. Got it. Thank you for your words and effort. I appreciate you. xoxo

[Cute]

the music industry has a better ring to it, but queen of pop is still cute ! no lies detected 

[AvrilMoonlight]

Is anyone surprised? I mean we all saw the records midnights broke, right? Even though I admit it’s not my favorite album from her, it did amazing. 

no one can sell, create hype, or write quite like her. 

[dirrtydiana]

2 hours ago, Artistofthedecade said:

So you have no measurable metric, gotcha. 

So you need corrupt charts, “critics” and award shows to tell you what you like, gotcha.

[WildHeart]

1 minute ago, dirrtydiana said:

So you need corrupt charts, “critics” and award shows to tell you what you like, gotcha.

Nah, i just take them over what ATRL user dirrtydiana says when it comes to see what is remembered or not.

I never said that i like albums based on their chart or critical performance, you just made that up. 

[dirrtydiana]

2 minutes ago, Artistofthedecade said:

Nah, i just take them over what ATRL user dirrtydiana says when it comes to see what is remembered or not.

I never said that i like albums based on their chart or critical performance, you just made that up. 

So you agree: real world>”metrics”>atrlers such as yourself.

 

you’re almost out of the woods. come join us up here

[Cruel Summer]

10 minutes ago, dirrtydiana said:

So you need corrupt charts, “critics” and award shows to tell you what you like, gotcha.

What is your evidence that charts are corrupt in such a way as to misconstrue Taylor Swift’s success relative to other artists?

[WildHeart]

6 minutes ago, dirrtydiana said:

So you agree: real world>”metrics”>atrlers such as yourself.

 

you’re almost out of the woods. come join us up here

Yeah i agree. And in the same real world, people paid more than 300M to buy her remembered catalogue so my question remains. What makes you think that her catalogue doesn't have the staying power and forgotten 

[MingYouToo]

I think the important discussion here is the nature of Madonna and Taylor as artists.

 

Long wall of text ahead drag me if you want:

Spoiler

Madonna came at a time when NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE was breaking barriers and walls for women, at least not the way she did, she was the catalyst for female pop we know nowadays, she was a trailblazer. The reason I mention this is while Madonna is impactful and amazing, there was no one else out there doing what she did, so in that regard how can we benchmark her against other pop females who came after her?

 

Taylor, Beyoncé, Rihanna, Britney and so many more would not have existed if it werent for Madonna.

 

Taylor Swift is the result of years of female pop breaking walls and barriers for different kinds of women to enter music, Taylor however, is a trailblazer in her own right.

 

Taylor is responsible for the influx of young women coming into country music and the rise of self written pop music, shes also almost entirely responsible for radios around the world warming up to country music with Fearless.

 

Taylor has undeniable impact in the country music scene, and especially for young women.

 

On the business side of things, Taylor Swift is easily the most powerful female musician we've ever seen, shes made Apple bend to her will, Universal change their contract structure for every artist under their belt and create discourse on patent laws. She may not be a billionaire the way Beyoncé, Madonna or Rihanna are, but you sure damn well know Taylor holds the most power in any room when it comes to business deals in music.

 

Disregarding impact, we can talk about numbers.

 

Madonna is easily the best selling female artist of all time. That cannot be doubted. Taylor Swift in raw numbers cannot compare.

 

HOWEVER, you cannot directly compare a 1982-2012 career to a 2006-now one simply because of the nature of capitalism, Madonna's sales need to be understood in the context of her market. The sales of the market, the medium and consumer behavior.

 

Madonna was a commercial force but was never the #1 selling artist in any of her calendar years of dominance, with Immaculate Collection however being the sole exception, sold 30M at a time when the #2 was around 20M. So she was selling 1.5x her competition at her commercial peak. Her other albums like Like A Virgin were in the Top 5 and such.

 

Do remember Madonna came at a time when everyone bought CDs, cassettes and physical media as it was the only way to consume music.

Obviously she would eclipse Taylor in pure sales simply because of the nature of the market, not because Taylor can't sell, which I'll explain further.

 

With Taylor then, her pure sales just ECLIPSE everyone around her. With every release since Fearless she has eclipsed every artist that comes after her albeit with certain monster eras like The Fame, 21, The END, etc. Shes the IFPI #1 selling global artist of 2014 and 2019, with phenomenon BTS blocking her at #2 for 2020 and 2021. She is expected to rule at #1 once again GLOBALLY this 2022.

 

When you compare Taylor's numbers with her competitors, they all PALE in comparison, shes debuted with 1M+ across 13 years, from the death of the physical market in 2010, rise and peak of the digital in 2014 and now in the peak of the streaming era, Taylor Swift has been pulling a million in pure sales easily. When her next in line competitor takes a whole year to cross 2M SPS, it takes her 2 months to.

 

It should be noted that the market for music consumption has changed faster from 2000-2022 than it has from 1960-1999. Most 80s to 90s artists have only had to contend with CDs, cassettes and vinyls for their entire career.

 

Lets now get into how Taylor Swift managed to transition from multiple markets, Madonna has for her first 20 years only really had to contend with physical media and MTV, her bread and butter. Taylor has gone from MTV, Youtube and Myspace to now Apple Music and Spotify, the market for consumption has 

 

Relatively speaking, Taylor Swift is truly the queen of mainstream music. Dare I say potentially the biggest solo artist of all time soon.

 

We can talk about singles since Madonna clearly outpowers Taylor there but the question that should be posited is this: 80s to 90s artists need singles to push their albums, Taylor pushes album sales FAR beyond her peers without a smash hit for the majority of her career.

 

So now the question is, do singles really matter when the form of consumption in modern media is streaming and Taylor Swift is the dominant force, male or female, in the platform whilst still pushing pure sales 50x more than her closest peer?

 

And is it truly an insult to have young female and gay fans that rally for you constantly when at the end of the day, youre outselling everyone 50:1? Does the idea of wearing a controversial outfit or statement that makes headlines for a month matter more than actually making 10M off of a single week of sales from people that actually support your work.

Does the idea of wearing a controversial outfit or statement that makes headlines for a month matter more than actually making 10M off of a single week of sales from people that actually support your work?

 

That depends on your perspective, ATRL.

Edited October 30, 2022 by MingYouToo

[Literature]

The Music Industry is a way better and more impactful title to be honest. Interesting how people use subjective, intangible measurements like "impact" and "controversy" to justify their answers. I'm sorry but the numbers don't lie and are an objective metric.

[suburbannature]

5 hours ago, momal said:

1.it was harder but it wasn't impossible. Whitney was the first female to debut at #1, the first one to have #1 year-end album in the US. Madonna wasn't on her level

2.maybe debut weeks not, but even there Whitney got 1 million selling weeks with the Bodyguard, Celine was doing 800 000 copies, Madonna never came close

3.nobody cares about those cheap ass club sales where you could buy 12 albums for $1, they shouldn't even be counted. SHIPMENTS AND CHEAP ASS CLUB SALES were inflating the actual albums sales

4.no, she is not. 

5.idgaf what the industry says, the only reason that the soundtrack sold so much was because of MHWGO. AVATAR was bigger than Titanic yet its soundtrack completely flopped. ASIB soundtrack smashed, yet TP flopped. Why? Because the gp didn't like the music. 

Why are you denying facts? Madonna is easily the best-selling female of all-time (Whitney isn't even top three). She may have sold albums pre-Soundscan, but that doesn't take away from her enormous sales (and touring stats).

And where was Madonna not on Whitney's level in the US?

 

 

Soundscan (verified pure sales 1991+)

 

These are from 2014

 

1 - Garth Brooks - 69.424m 

2 - The Beatles - 65.111m 

3 - Mariah Carey - 54.209m 

4 - Metallica - 54.129m

5 - Celine Dion - 52.159m 

6 - George Strait - 44.781m

7 - Eminem - 44.469m 

8 - Tim McGraw - 41.844m 

9 - Alan Jackson - 40.361m 

10 - Pink Floyd - 38.508m 
11 - U2 - 34.715m
12 - Kenny G - 34.248m
13 - Shania Twain - 34.118m
14 - Elvis Presley - 33.656m
15 - Michael Jackson - 32.722m
16 - Britney Spears - 32.432m
17 - AC/DC - 31.489m
18 - Pearl Jam - 31.082m
19 - Backstreet Boys - 30.958m
20 - Dave Matthews - 30.725m
21 - Aerosmith - 30.637m
22 - The Eagles - 30.611m
23 - Eric Clapton - 30.432m
24 - Reba McEntire - 29.896m
25 - Rod Stewart - 28.811m
26 - Toby Keith - 28.761m
27 - 2Pac - 28.559m
28 - Jay-Z - 28.470m
29 - Frank Sinatra - 28.216m
30 - N Sync - 28.096m
31 - Elton John - 27.256m
32 - Creed - 27.079m
33 - Dixie Chicks - 26.941m
34 - Madonna - 26.935m (+2m with Evita)

N/A (top 40) - Whitney Houston

 

RIAA Album Certifications:

Madonna - 64.5 Million

Whitney - 60 Million

[ninetiesceline]

9 hours ago, momal said:

Celine Dion has sold more albums than her. And yes, Titanic Soundtrack counts to her total,

No, the titanic soundtrack does not count to her career sales, only the song. Even if you check RIAA, or anything else.

[Jude]

The fad stans are really pressed.

 

Let them have that meaningless Qop title y'all. The Music Industry does not care. 

Edited October 30, 2022 by Jude

[dirrtydiana]

3 hours ago, Artistofthedecade said:

Yeah i agree. And in the same real world, people paid more than 300M to buy her remembered catalogue so my question remains. What makes you think that her catalogue doesn't have the staying power and forgotten 

Oh you mean her catalog pre her lana wannabe era that scooter said he regret buying?

 

your proof is that only a certain group of people use her. Just look at pictures of her crowds 

4 hours ago, Cruel Summer said:

What is your evidence that charts are corrupt in such a way as to misconstrue Taylor Swift’s success relative to other artists?

if you need to ask that question you shouldn’t be on a pop music forum. And who’s saying only she’s responsible of chart manipulation? 

[SpankGangsta]

9 hours ago, dirrtydiana said:

Everything she lacks. Undeniable impact, time transcending music, iconography

 

Imagine thinking Taylor has no impact lmao

[Protocol]

6 hours ago, dirrtydiana said:

So you need corrupt charts, “critics” and award shows to tell you what you like, gotcha.

?????? Did you listen to her music? Folklore is a ******* amazing work of art 

[Solaria]

Are.. are people really in here arguing that Madonna is a fad and a flop? Really? 

 

Streaming discussions have really ruined this website.. yall cant even talk about anything anymore unless its comes with cold hard numbers

[Lover]

 

[prézli]

How many hits does she have in Europe? 

[RedCarpet]

Madonna will always be THE queen of pop but let's not be delusional. Taylor indeed is the biggest pop stars of this century 

[brenda-walsh]

as if 

[Guest]

[hungrymuffin]

that britney stan denied all the objective metrics  truly the most delusional user 

 

people getting so sensitive over a title

[KeshaSwift]

Well did anyone even have a doubt? Taylor Swift is the moment for 16 years now

[Arcadius]

I can't believe some people are actually denying Madonna's success and impact.