FightDragonsWithMe Posted October 20, 2022 Posted October 20, 2022 I need to get into Shakira but Beyoncé/Madonna have a commendable work eithic & talent that helped them smash with new material I would give Madonna Give Me All Your Lovin' even if it was carried thanks to Super Bowl tho
Devin Posted October 20, 2022 Posted October 20, 2022 5 minutes ago, KatyPrismSpirit said: 25 years into their career and mariah isnt part of that as of now. Its not intended as shade but i dont think mariah had a smash hit like 4 minutes, te felicito or break my soul post 2015 that is new material She only put out one album post-2015 tho after a successful 20+ year career.
KatyPrismSpirit Posted October 20, 2022 Author Posted October 20, 2022 1 minute ago, Devin said: She only put out one album post-2015 tho after a successful 20+ year career. 25 years after her career she had Me... I Am Mariah and Caution but those had collectively zero hits? And Imperfect Angel (19 years into career) had Obsessed and that was a moderate hit at most. Not the same highs as Break My Soul or 4 Minutes at all (which were 25 years into their careers)
suburbannature Posted October 20, 2022 Posted October 20, 2022 17 minutes ago, KatyPrismSpirit said: 25 years after her career she had Me... I Am Mariah and Caution but those had collectively zero hits? And Imperfect Angel (19 years into career) had Obsessed and that was a moderate hit at most. Not the same highs as Break My Soul or 4 Minutes at all (which were 25 years into their careers) 2009 is her career's 20th year. Math, sweetie. And Obsessed was absolutely a big hit and has stood the test of time. It still goes viral on TikTok yearly. Hit tweets galore. Your narratives don't match with the stats, luv.
stevyy Posted October 21, 2022 Posted October 21, 2022 1 hour ago, KatyPrismSpirit said: not necessarily #1 but #2... and doing highly similar numbers? Would you say Brenda Lee had a "long career" like Shakira and Beyonce just because Rockin' Around the Christmas tree has massive streams one week per year solely bc its a holiday? Holiday songs are just a routine fluke. Brenda Lee isn't considered to this regard because she doesnt do it with new material and neither does mariah. With longevity we mean a long career that is sustained because the output remains succesful / keeps hitting. Not because their back catalog gets streams. I mean new music. Brenda Lee is not nearly doing what Mariah is doing... sending, you know, 6 songs into international singles charts, and occupying the top 3 positions on every single chart that exists. Not to mention getting 2 Christmas albums into the charts, with one selling the equivalent of 500,000 consumption units globally. You make it sound like Xmas is just one week of charts performances... Mariah is currently charting for 9-11 weeks (depending on the country) with her Xmas catalogue. So, we are talking about completely different types of peaks and successes here, the quantity is just not comparable. Secondly, Mariah's Christmas song has been doing its thing since 2005 when it originally topped the US digital charts and continued to be the #1 Christmas song ever since. It was only in 2007 when Christmas music was allowed back to international charts (2012 for the US) and it re-entered many charts in the top 10 with Brenda and co nowhere to be seen. AIW is the first song each year to re-chart and the last one to drop off. For the 2021 season, I used the information we had to compile a list of Mariah's consumption sales, and long story short, the woman sold 4,5 million sps units in 2021 with her Xmas material alone. That number is so huge that she is now eating away the differences between her and those of the pre-digital age who rank ahead of her. Finally Enough Love has probably sold something like 150k globally by today. Merry Christmas alone is pulling in 500,000 - and that total is rising every single year. Bublé (the #1 Xmas album seller, is adding an estimated 750k annually to his total with that one album). It is a gigantic industry and currently Mariah is the biggest female in that category - by far. Currently certified by the RIAA: 1994 - 8xP - Merry Christmas -> might go diamond after this year's season, was at 5xP in 2003. 1994 - Diamond - All I want for Christmas is You -> added 1,5 million sps units in 2021 in the US alone -> 12xP after this season? -> was uncertified in 2003 1994 - 1x Platinum - Christmas (Baby Please Come Home) -> was uncertified in 2003 -> is added 45 million streams on Spotify in 2021 and is already ahead in 2022 -> 2xP in 2 years. -> charts in half a dozen countries and is entering more and more charts worldwide annually. 1994 - Gold - Santa Claus is Coming to Town -> one of her biggest staples, used to be un-certified and is charting in half a dozen countries. 1994 - Gold - Hark! The Herald Angels Sing -> has begun re-charting internationally 1994 - Gold - O Holy Night -> her 3rd biggest Xmas song to date, will go platinum after this season -> used to be uncertified 2020 - uncertified - Oh Santa Remix -> is expected to reach Gold after this season I get your point. I do. And I don't want to argue with you. But Mariah is currently running away with her Xmas catalogue. And occasionally and if the timing is right, she does get the occasional regional hit. BER is proof of that. It will be Gold in a year as well in the USA, the Remix version that is. I believe that it is nearly impossible to chart for veteran acts these days with new material. It was difficult in 2008 or during the digital era at large, but in the streaming age, it is nearly impossible. One has to be extremely lucky. Mariah cannot chart a new song on her own, but so can't Madonna (in the US). BTW ONLY Mariah and Whitney have had a multi-platinum single in the 2010s... #Beautiful and Higher Love - both 2xP.
blueberries Posted October 21, 2022 Posted October 21, 2022 Shakira is local to latin america and latin european countries so no
NausAllien Posted October 21, 2022 Posted October 21, 2022 1 hour ago, suburbannature said: 20 years of platinum+ albums and hit records PLUS annual dominance with Xmas music is longevity and sustainability no matter how you try to spin it. The way you just CANNOT accept Mariah only had ONE good decade (1990-1999). She started flopping with Glitter and, with the exception of The Emancipation which was huge, she hasn't stopped since. That's just the truth, sis. I pray one day you'll accept it!
Protocol Posted October 21, 2022 Posted October 21, 2022 The Moo stans RUNNING in here Give it up girls, her last hit was "Obsessed" in 2009, and I guess "#Beautiful" did cute for a couple weeks in 2013. But her new material is irrelevant and a flop for the last decade. Her albums since Memoirs barely chart internationally. Whereas even Madame X automatically debuted Top 5 in every country. Not comparable at all. Whoever sings Rocking around the Christmas Tree also gets a hit every December, does that mean she's the queen of a long career? No. They are Christmas songs. Don't act dumb.
Protocol Posted October 21, 2022 Posted October 21, 2022 7 minutes ago, NausAllien said: The way you just CANNOT accept Mariah only had ONE good decade (1990-1999). She started flopping with Glitter and, with the exception of The Emancipation which was huge, she hasn't stopped since. That's just the truth, sis. I pray one day you'll accept it! This, she had a fluke era in 2005 but E=MC^2 was back to flopping outside of "Touch My Body" in America and its first week US sales. The hype around the start of the era has convinced stans it was a success but it wasn't, Einstein only sold 2.1 million copies WW and even TMB only sold 3.2M, a moderate hit at best for the peak of digital sales. The era is only at 3.2M units total, that's only 700k higher than MDNA which was widely considered a flop that marked the end of Madonna's imperial phase.
NausAllien Posted October 21, 2022 Posted October 21, 2022 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Protocol said: The era is only at 3.2M units total, that's only 700k higher than MDNA which was widely considered a flop that marked the end of Madonna's imperial phase. I guess the standards are different for Mariah. When an artist flops, they flop; but when she flops, there's always an excuse, a but, an asterisk Edited October 21, 2022 by NausAllien
suburbannature Posted October 21, 2022 Posted October 21, 2022 27 minutes ago, NausAllien said: The way you just CANNOT accept Mariah only had ONE good decade (1990-1999). She started flopping with Glitter and, with the exception of The Emancipation which was huge, she hasn't stopped since. That's just the truth, sis. I pray one day you'll accept it! Remember how you got clocked by the entire forum by trying to claim that in an Xtina thread? Don’t be delusional in another thread.
suburbannature Posted October 21, 2022 Posted October 21, 2022 23 minutes ago, Protocol said: The Moo stans RUNNING in here Give it up girls, her last hit was "Obsessed" in 2009, and I guess "#Beautiful" did cute for a couple weeks in 2013. But her new material is irrelevant and a flop for the last decade. Her albums since Memoirs barely chart internationally. Whereas even Madame X automatically debuted Top 5 in every country. Not comparable at all. Whoever sings Rocking around the Christmas Tree also gets a hit every December, does that mean she's the queen of a long career? No. They are Christmas songs. Don't act dumb. That’s a major false equivalence for the reasons stevvy explained above. AIWFCIY is a global classic, is THE Xmas song on the charts each year, and Mariah is moving a massive amount of album units each year. She isn’t the Queen of Christmas for just one song. There’s no comparison to Brenda’s #2 song pulling cute numbers in the US. The receipts show Mariah being successful for 20 years - the kind of era she had with Mimi 15 years in is a complete anomaly and holding the success of Einstein and Memoirs to those same standards is unrealistic and you know it. And she’s now dominating globally each Nov-Dec with her Xmas music in a way NO other artist can do with their catalogue, Xmas or not. And many have tried - including most of y’all’s faves. On top of that, she’s also beating y’all’s faves in recurrent streams before the Xmas season. Consistently the most-streamed pre-00s female in the US (sometimes doubling Madonna), and currently the most-streamed in recurrent of all the 80s/90s divas on Spotify globally. The margin would widen if you included Apple Music and Asian platforms like Melon. You can try and try to throw in one-liners for a cute clock, but the numbers will never be in your favor. Hope you enjoy yet another Xmas season.
NausAllien Posted October 21, 2022 Posted October 21, 2022 17 minutes ago, suburbannature said: Remember how you got clocked by the entire forum by trying to claim that in an Xtina thread? Nice deflection, but Xtina has nothing to do with this discussion. You are claiming Mariah is on the same levels as the three women mentioned by OP, and we're telling you she's not. Now, please and stay on topic.
suburbannature Posted October 21, 2022 Posted October 21, 2022 2 minutes ago, NausAllien said: Nice deflection, but Xtina has nothing to do with this discussion. You are claiming Mariah is on the same levels as the three women mentioned by OP, and we're telling you she's not. Now, please and stay on topic. I'm not referencing Xtina; I'm referencing you making that same incorrect claim in an Xtina thread recently and rightfully be clocked by two dozen users for it. As for Mariah being on the same "level," she's outsold 2/3 of those women by a large margin so that general claim you just made is very incorrect. As for the OP topic: 14 minutes ago, suburbannature said: That’s a major false equivalence for the reasons stevvy explained above. AIWFCIY is a global classic, is THE Xmas song on the charts each year, and Mariah is moving a massive amount of album units each year. She isn’t the Queen of Christmas for just one song. There’s no comparison to Brenda’s #2 song pulling cute numbers in the US. The receipts show Mariah being successful for 20 years - the kind of era she had with Mimi 15 years in is a complete anomaly and holding the success of Einstein and Memoirs to those same standards is unrealistic and you know it. And she’s now dominating globally each Nov-Dec with her Xmas music in a way NO other artist can do with their catalogue, Xmas or not. And many have tried - including most of y’all’s faves. On top of that, she’s also beating y’all’s faves in recurrent streams before the Xmas season. Consistently the most-streamed pre-00s female in the US (sometimes doubling Madonna), and currently the most-streamed in recurrent of all the 80s/90s divas on Spotify globally. The margin would widen if you included Apple Music and Asian platforms like Melon. You can try and try to throw in one-liners for a cute clock, but the numbers will never be in your favor. Hope you enjoy yet another Xmas season. Also, you two keep referencing US stats and the Shakira song being used as evidence for Billboard longevity peaked at 67 in the US. Be blessed.
45seconds Posted October 21, 2022 Posted October 21, 2022 3 hours ago, Devin said: So we not gonna include Mariah? I mean it’s kind of different. It’s like Kate Bush’s resurgence with one song. If she released something brand new…it would flip into oblivion. Mariah’s success hinges on it being Christmas. That being said, it does seem like the entire point of this thread was to shade her. Which I do not agree with. Mariah is a legend and she has nothing to prove and if she has to go #1 every year because of one song then so be it.
suburbannature Posted October 21, 2022 Posted October 21, 2022 3 minutes ago, 45seconds said: I mean it’s kind of different. It’s like Kate Bush’s resurgence with one song. If she released something brand new…it would flip into oblivion. Mariah’s success hinges on it being Christmas. That being said, it does seem like the entire point of this thread was to shade her. Which I do not agree with. Mariah is a legend and she has nothing to prove and if she has to go #1 every year because of one song then so be it. Again, it's not just one song. And, again, saying it "hinges on Christmas" doesn't work considering her Xmas success far surpasses others. Whether it's the global success at #1 for AIWFCIY, the album, the other songs doing well. No other artist is doing that with catalogues, Xmas or otherwise, and - as I said - many have tried.
NausAllien Posted October 21, 2022 Posted October 21, 2022 4 minutes ago, suburbannature said: As for Mariah being on the same "level," she's outsold 2/3 of those women by a large margin so that general claim you just made is very incorrect. Reading-comprehension is an important skill. OP isn't talking about overall sales, they're talking about LONGEVITY. BASIC FACTS: Mariah's last hit was "Obsessed" in 2009, 19 years after her debut. Shakira's last hit was "Te Felicito" in 2022, 31 years after her debut. Beyoncé's last hit was "Break My Soul" in 2022, 25 years after her debut with DC. Madonna's last hit was "4 Minutes" in 2008, 26 years after her debut. So as you can see, Mariah doesn't have the longevity the other three ladies had. Moreover, in between her first and last hits Mariah had SEVERAL FLOP eras. Or are you going to deny Glitter and Charmbracelet were EPIC flops? Madonna, Shakira and Beyoncé never had flops of that magnitude in between their first and last hits.
stevyy Posted October 21, 2022 Posted October 21, 2022 39 minutes ago, Protocol said: This, she had a fluke era in 2005 but E=MC^2 was back to flopping outside of "Touch My Body" in America and its first week US sales. The hype around the start of the era has convinced stans it was a success but it wasn't, Einstein only sold 2.1 million copies WW and even TMB only sold 3.2M, a moderate hit at best for the peak of digital sales. The era is only at 3.2M units total, that's only 700k higher than MDNA which was widely considered a flop that marked the end of Madonna's imperial phase. Einstein is about to be re-certified 2xP in the US, as it was standing at 1,7 million sps units in 2018. TMB is 3xP in the US alone, it sold more than 200,000 outside of it (sps). Moo (2000-2022) RIAA: 2000 - #1 - Gold - Thank God I Found You 2000 - #28 - Crybaby 2001 - #2 - Gold - Loverboy 2001 - #81 - Never Too Far / Hero Medley 2002 - #81 - Through The Rain 2003 - #3 - 1xP - I Know what you Want 2004 - #21 - U Make Me Wanna 2005 - #16 - Gold - It's Like That 2005 - #1 - 6xP - We Belong Together 2005 - #2 - 1xP - Shake It Off 2005 - #1 - 1xP - Don't Forget About Us 2006 - #79 - Say Somethin' 2008 - #1 - 3xP - Touch my Body 2008 - #19 - 1xP - Bye Bye 2008 - #58 - I'll Be Lovin' You Long Time 2008 - #92 - Migrate 2009 - #7 - 3xP - Obsessed 2009 - #60 - I want to know what Love Is 2010 - #100 - Gold - Up Out My Face 2011 - #100 - Oh Santa 2011 - #86 - Gold - AIWFCIY (SuperFestive) 2013 - #15 - 2xP - #Beautiful 2014 - #88 - YM(E) 2015 - #82 - Infinity 2017 - #89 - I Don't 2020 - #76 - Oh Santa Remix = 20,5 million singles certified = 14,5 million albums certified Madonna: (2000-2022) RIAA 5,0 million singles certified 7,5 million albums certified (2000-2022): 26 songs on the H100 - Mariah (+AIWFCIY) 14 songs on the H100 - Madonna I think it is unfair to claim that Moo completely faded after 1999. I mean the woman is sitting on a 2022 2xP Top 10 single in Australia at the moment which I find cute. I'm not even denying that Madge did and continues to do exceptionally well, she is. But I wonder why the harsh language in regards to MOO is necessary. Making MOo seem like a total flop in the 2000s is not smart. BTW, Madge needs a RIAA update badly. Those figures above do not represent her actual certifyable units in the US. Just in case before the Madge stans are cutting my throat and dancing in my blood. #Internetbullying is a mental disease.
suburbannature Posted October 21, 2022 Posted October 21, 2022 (edited) 14 minutes ago, NausAllien said: Reading-comprehension is an important skill. OP isn't talking about overall sales, they're talking about LONGEVITY. BASIC FACTS: Mariah's last hit was "Obsessed" in 2009, 19 years after her debut. Shakira's last hit was "Te Felicito" in 2022, 31 years after her debut. Beyoncé's last hit was "Break My Soul" in 2022, 25 years after her debut with DC. Madonna's last hit was "4 Minutes" in 2008, 26 years after her debut. So as you can see, Mariah doesn't have the longevity the other three ladies had. Moreover, in between her first and last hits Mariah had SEVERAL FLOP eras. Or are you going to deny Glitter and Charmbracelet were EPIC flops? Madonna, Shakira and Beyoncé never had flops of that magnitude in between their first and last hits. Combining Beyonce with DC (two separate acts) to prove a point, ignoring that Shakira's song flopped in the market we're discussing, ignoring Shakira's true WW debut No one claims that Glitter and Charmbracelet weren't flops - hence why Emancipation is seen as the comeback of all comebacks because of how enormous it was. And please. This is Shakira's trajectory: Two Colombian albums that moved about 1,000 copies each Pies Descalzos (1995): 4 million WW Dónde Están los Ladrones?: 4 million WW Laundry Service (2001): 13 million WW Fijacion Oral: 5 million WW She Wolf (2009): 2 million WW Sale el Sol: 4 million WW Shakira (2014): 900,000 WW yet I don't see you calling Laundry Service a fluke or She Wolf an enormous bomb Meanwhile Mariah: Mariah Carey (1990): 15 million WW Emotions: 8 million WW Music Box: 30 million WW Merry Christmas: 18 million WW Daydream: 25 million WW Butterfly: 10 million WW #1s (1998): 15 million WW Rainbow: 8 million WW Glitter: 2 million WW Greatest Hits (2001): 5 million WW Charmbracelet: 3 million WW Emancipation of Mimi (2005): 10 million WW E=MC2 (2008): 2.5 million WW Memoirs (2009): 2 million WW You might want to consider what you're saying before you dig yourself a bigger hole in these arguments. Edited October 21, 2022 by suburbannature
Triton Posted October 21, 2022 Posted October 21, 2022 When you have talent, ambition and drive plus a powerful 3 syllable name… longevity. Plus Shakira and Beyoncé are gorgeous! Madonna has her controversies.
stevyy Posted October 21, 2022 Posted October 21, 2022 8 minutes ago, NausAllien said: Reading-comprehension is an important skill. OP isn't talking about overall sales, they're talking about LONGEVITY. BASIC FACTS: Mariah's last hit was "Obsessed" in 2009, 19 years after her debut. Shakira's last hit was "Te Felicito" in 2022, 31 years after her debut. Beyoncé's last hit was "Break My Soul" in 2022, 25 years after her debut with DC. Madonna's last hit was "4 Minutes" in 2008, 26 years after her debut. So as you can see, Mariah doesn't have the longevity the other three ladies had. Moreover, in between her first and last hits Mariah had SEVERAL FLOP eras. Or are you going to deny Glitter and Charmbracelet were EPIC flops? Madonna, Shakira and Beyoncé never had flops of that magnitude in between their first and last hits. YEs, I am denying that Glitter and CB were epic flops. The Spirit Indestructible is an epic flops. Albums which sold over 400k in Japan could never be considered epic flops, that I am sure of. They were big flops for her standards, that I can agree on. in hindsight, 2001 has been a kinda good year, as she was collecting 1xP for Glitter and 2xP for GH. You also make it seem like they debuted and then dropped completely off in week 2. CB sold 1m units in the US in 7 weeks and charted for 22. The wording is too harsh. Those were difficult times in a commercial point of view.
NausAllien Posted October 21, 2022 Posted October 21, 2022 3 minutes ago, suburbannature said: Combining Beyonce with DC (two separate acts) to prove a point, ignoring that Shakira's song flopped in the market we're discussing, ignoring Shakira's true WW debut Beyoncé WAS DC. Destiny's Child wasn't the Spice Girls. Beyoncé was the frontwoman AND sang 90% of the vocals, not to mention she co-wrote many of the songs. It's perfectly reasonable to combine them for the purpose of discussion about LONGEVITY. You know the world is more than the US. We aren't discussing just the success in the US. OP is clearly discussing OVERALL success that's why they mention "many countries" when talking about "Te Felicito." Also #67 is higher than anything Mariah's has put out since 2013. Even if we ignore "Te Felicito" as OP mentions "Monotonía" is shaping up to be a massive hit. If you want to count Piez Descalzos as her debut, she still has more years than Mariah from her debut to her last hit (1995-2022 = 27 years) I understand why you're foaming at the mouth. Shakira's alleged flop "Te Felicito" charted higher in the US than anything Mariah has released in the past 9 years. And now she's about to have another hit. That must REAAAAALLY hurt.
suburbannature Posted October 21, 2022 Posted October 21, 2022 Just now, NausAllien said: Beyoncé WAS DC. Destiny's Child wasn't the Spice Girls. Beyoncé was the frontwoman AND sang 90% of the vocals, not to mention she co-wrote many of the songs. It's perfectly reasonable to combine them for the purpose of discussion about LONGEVITY. You know the world is more than the US. We aren't discussing just the success in the US. OP is clearly discussing OVERALL success that's why they mention "many countries" when talking about "Te Felicito." Also #67 is higher than anything Mariah's has put out since 2013. Even if we ignore "Te Felicito" as OP mentions "Monotonía" is shaping up to be a massive hit. If you want to count Piez Descalzos as her debut, she still has more years than Mariah from her debut to her last hit (1995-2022 = 27 years) I understand why you're foaming at the mouth. Shakira's alleged flop "Te Felicito" charted higher in the US than anything Mariah has released in the past 9 years. And now she's about to have another hit. That must REAAAAALLY hurt. Let me spell it out for you since you're struggling and deflecting. Shakira's years between 2,000,000 million selling albums (or even one million) WW: 15 Mariah's years between 2,000,000 million selling albums WW: 19 Shakira's years between Billboard top 15 singles: 13 Mariah's years between Billboard top 15 singles (no Xmas): 23 Mariah's years between Billboard top 15 singles (with Xmas): 32
NausAllien Posted October 21, 2022 Posted October 21, 2022 4 minutes ago, suburbannature said: Let me spell it out for you since you're struggling and deflecting. Shakira's years between 2,000,000 million selling albums (or even one million) WW: 15 Mariah's years between 2,000,000 million selling albums WW: 19 Shakira's years between Billboard top 15 singles: 13 Mariah's years between Billboard top 15 singles (no Xmas): 23 Mariah's years between Billboard top 15 singles (with Xmas): 32 LMAO! YOU are the one who's making it about the BB Hot 100. OP and I are talking about HITS. And I cannot believe you're making it about a Top 15? Why so you can include #Beautiful? LMAO! How convenient... Literally I've never seen in MY LIFE a more clear example of the "moving the goalposts" fallacy. It's insane...
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