news Hundreds of Muslims protest the use of LGBTQ books in Michigan School board meeting.

[byzantium]

Some of you are pretty brave testing the "warning point" happy mods  when it comes to criticizing religion.  Even if y'all are correct. 

[Protocol]

As a proud gay man with self-respect and dignity, I say **** Islam and any other organized religion that tries to suppress my existence

[GhostBox]

Extreme religious people (of all groups) will be the downfall of this planet. 

[SmittenCake]

@ATRL Feedback @ATRL Administration i hope you guys do something with OP's history of Islamaphobia. Its seriously triggering 

[Communion]

1 hour ago, DonSiblon said:

You’re making this out to be a joke but what if the OP really was bullied by muslims when they were young? I attended a private Muslim school growing up and the muslims around me, old and young always expressed how disgusted they were by anything remotely gay or feminine. So it’s totally valid if OP has a resentment against a religion that has always rejected us. 

Yeah, but "Muslims can't be trusted" is a nonsensical response when these protests are a political tool to try and unseat a progressive pro-LGBT Muslim woman from her seat in Congress. 

 

Reactionary ex-Muslims are often just as conservative as conservative Muslims and harmful cause both often have no hesitation aligning with Republicans to harm people they hate and resent. 

 

There's no material analysis to justify conservative Muslims teaming with the GOP to ban LGBT books or ex-Muslims like Ayaan Hirsi Ali working with the GOP to try and pass legislation to limit how many Muslims can immigrate to the US. 

 

Resentment is not political analysis and is often the literal sole motivator for systems of bigotry. 

Edited October 15, 2022 by Communion

[Luckitty]

1 hour ago, DonSiblon said:

You’re making this out to be a joke but what if the OP really was bullied by muslims when they were young? I attended a private Muslim school growing up and the muslims around me, old and young always expressed how disgusted they were by anything remotely gay or feminine. So it’s totally valid if OP has a resentment against a religion that has always rejected us. 

then he needs to see a therapist instead of making weekly threads about how much he hates muslims

[Literature]

3 hours ago, Communion said:

These people are Republicans. By choosing to frame the issue how you have to satisfy your personal resentments to Islam and Muslims at large as an ex-Muslim, you now have a thread full of people who are largely not American debating Islam and how they want it treated in countries that are not America.

You always try to say Muslims are separate from Islam in discussions that are already clearly highlighting that Islam as a religion does not condone anything related to lgbtq. I can guarantee you the OP does not have any issue with Muslims who support lgbtq+ lol, its not a bigotry thing.

 

Islam will NEVER allow lgbtq lifestyles as its literally explicitly said that in the Quran thats its forbidden, so by extension, all religious Muslims will never support lgbtq+. Why cant you just admit that instead of always trying to deflect to "what about republicans"

Edited October 15, 2022 by Literature

[Ascareus Kratos]

If they dislikes us. Feel free to leave then

[Communion]

22 minutes ago, Literature said:

all religious Muslims will never support lgbtq+.

If someone identifies as a Muslim - a religion - they're thus religious. 

So how can you say there are Muslims who accept LGBTQ+ people (and thus you don't mean to insult THOSE Muslims when you attack Muslims) but only mean the bad ones? 

 

What the honest **** are you talking about? 

[Literature]

4 minutes ago, Communion said:

If someone identifies as a Muslim - a religion - they're thus religious. 

So how can you say there are Muslims who accept LGBTQ+ people (and thus you don't mean to insult THOSE Muslims when you attack Muslims) but only mean the bad ones? 

 

What the honest **** are you talking about? 

You know what I mean though, like there are many Muslims that support lgbtq+ but they have to ignore what the Quran say. Obviously the people who are more religious (ie follow the Quran more diligently) do not support it. That is who OP is coming for: Orthodox Muslims and Islam, not just anybody who identifies as Muslim. It's an important distinction to make cuz it rebuts the idea of them blindly hating Muslims as a whole, rather, just hating something that is found within the religion

[Communion]

1 minute ago, Literature said:

You know what I mean though, like there are many Muslims that support lgbtq+ but they have to ignore what the Quran say

So you mean they interpret it differently, like has always been done with religion due to its nature of not being essentialist truths?  You realize a liberal Muslim and a conservative Muslim are both Muslim, right?

 

So you if you acknowledge there are *different* kinds of Muslims, you see why posts like these that say "all Muslims hate gays and want to establish Sharia law" would be illogical or, at worst, hateful to most, right?

 

 

This is why someone hating religion does not make them inherently liberal or progressive. And this issue is not unique to those who are resentful of Islam. "New Atheism" is largely ex-Christians who hold conservative views no different than Christianity. Which is the core issue that ex-Muslims refuse to grasp.

 

I'm a gay communist; of course I disagree with the tenants of conservatism regardless of what religion people try to use to justify such conservative views. But many Muslims or Christians being conservative doesn't then mean that someone who is an ex-Christian or ex-Muslim is on my side or also progressive because these people are often just as conservative, but just in a different way. 

 

So yes, I'm going to disagree with the notion that this is a fight against "Islam" (which is *always* a code meant to say this is a fight against /Muslims/) when MY fight is against conservatism and there are countless progressive pro-LGBT Muslims on *my* side.

 

 

Rashida Tlaib is the Muslim congresswoman who represents the district Dearborn is in.

Abdullah Hammoud is the progressive Muslim mayor of Dearborn. 

Dearborn overwhelming supported Bernie Sanders and his pro-LGBT agenda in 2016 and 2020.

 

[lovedaddy]

5 hours ago, shinyshimmery said:

Well, they have another country to call home if they dislike the US. Start packing and leave ✌?

this

[CaptainMusic]

3 hours ago, Luckitty said:

of course the obsessed islam hater is making this thread

 

did you get bullied by a muslim when you were young? where does this obsession come from?

The way you thought you did something here, embarrassing.

2 hours ago, Nexto said:

It's 2022 and people are still jumping through hoops to defend these medieval religious ideologies. No words 

Right

 

1 hour ago, SmittenCake said:

@ATRL Feedback @ATRL Administration i hope you guys do something with OP's history of Islamaphobia. Its seriously triggering 

Islam says that being gay is wrong and because of it gays are still being killed around the world. 
 

If the OP wants to post threads which expose the extreme homophobia among Muslims then he should be allowed to, especially on a forum where most of the members are gay.

[Miss Show Business]

Not OP being accused of Islamophobia for posting things actual muslims are saying 

I despise all religion. However we have to differentiate between these religions and take into account the history to understand why we are where we are today.

 

Christianity had huge ideological challenges beginning in the sixteenth century with Protestantism, and over time, these mainline Protestant churches became very progressive and affirming in practice, at least in the US. The most affirming churches here are the mainline Protestant churches.

 

I have never heard of an affirming mosque, and probably never will, unless Islam has a radical ideological shift like the Christian reformation. Christians largely accept that different denominations have different beliefs and practice differently. Islam? Well... There is only really one way to practice Islam, and that is the Quran, Sharia law, and the Hadiths. Any deviance from this is not accepted, and all condemn homosexuality, explicitly.

 

Apostasy is still punishable by death in some Islamic countries. Whereas this isn't still a thing in the "Christian world". The "Christian world" has its own set of challenges, sure, but they're not debating things like apostasy! These things were debated and solved centuries ago.

 

There are extremists in Christianity, but we largely don't accept this as Christian. Any extremists pledging violence, probably don't / wouldn't have alot of adherents in the western world.

 

Christianity and Islam are at completely different places in their lifespans. I'm sure there are many accepting Muslims, but I doubt that it's the majority 

[A.R.L]

The problem with the Muslim community is the need to pass on their fairy tales to other societies where this ideology isn't welcomed, something other religious groups never do. Just as in this case, you won't find Jews, Hindus and Buddists, for example, trying to impose their teachings in a foreign country.

 

If only it was about homophobia alone which is clearly bad, but what's worse is that the goal of these Muslims is political domination and making islam the main religion of the state, which is why we see many right-wing parties that are against immigration taking control recently, which is sad because it will affect other immigrants from the same background or different but willing to integrate, and even those practical Muslims who are only looking for a peaceful life

 

You shouldn't be surprised that there are Muslims in the west who want to practice sharia and no not in their countries of origin from which they fled but in those western countries themselves 

Edited October 16, 2022 by A.R.L

[Elusive Chanteuse]

Not surprised at all. I find that even "progressive" muslims are still very conservative.

 

[Scars]

 

8 hours ago, Dephira said:

Germany

The irony of you mentioning Germany as an example of local muslim communities trying to "agressively" force their beliefs on the general population, despite the fact that *all* of Germany's Muslim MPs - the actual people with systematic power to turn beliefs into laws - voted in favor of same-sex marriage in 2017, meanwhile their own white evangelical chancellor - religious group which you claim to have almost zero influence there - voted against it at the time. Yikes! So unserious. 

 

This idea that white-majority western countries are some of sort of pure, extremely liberal, homophobia-free, post-discrimination, loving societies that were corrupted by evil brown muslims and that's why white nationals collectively do not accept them is very disingenuous, especially when most of the policital parties catering to those islamophobic feelings across the West also attacks non-muslim communities of color and LGBTQ+ people, mostly trans folks.

 

That's how silly the reasoning of liberal europeans look every time they argue muslims' "bigotry" is the reason people support anti-immigration talking points and nazi parties are gaining popularity in Europe:

 

 

Conservative white westerners are fighting bigotry...with straight up nazism, I guess. 

 

OT: So disturbing to see this republican-backed protest over a goddamn book. Conservative republicans, regardless of religious background, seem to have a hard time understanding America is a secular state.

Edited October 16, 2022 by Scars

[Margaux]

8 hours ago, ClashAndBurn said:

And? Evangelical Christians have been doing this by the thousands across the country all year, and islamophobes like you weren’t saying **** then  

 

All religions dislike us and oppose secularism. Why do you think communities in the Deep South are still fighting to keep the Ten Commandments displayed in their court houses?

everyone knows that all religion are homophobic tho. the thing is you are more concerned about defending those homophobic protesters when they are obv in the wrong. all this whataboutism when the topic on hand isn’t about those other religions. and you know those threads will also get backlash anyway. 

[Scars]

8 hours ago, shinyshimmery said:

Well, they have another country to call home if they dislike the US. Start packing and leave ✌?

Why is it so difficult for some of y'all to discuss or rightfully condemn the protest posted by OP without resorting to anti-immigration and/or racist rhetoric? 

 

No one there said they dislike the US. Some lebanese-american families have been in Dearborn since the early 20th century, I find it hard to believe they see anywhere other than America as a home and even if that's not the case for those at the protest, telling conversatives or bigoted people to pack and leave doesn't seem to be really productive to actually tackle and fight discrimination.

 

People usually know this and that's why we never see ATRLers telling homophobic white christian republicans to leave the US or transphobic white british TERFs to leave the UK, but that seems to be a quite popular take in any thread related to conservative muslims. Inch resting.

Edited October 16, 2022 by Scars

[Delirious]

7 hours ago, Luckitty said:

of course the obsessed islam hater is making this thread

 

did you get bullied by a muslim when you were young? where does this obsession come from?

 

7 hours ago, Luckitty said:

the fact that he follows anti-muslim subreddits  very weird behavior 

you're weird for not allowing me to freely criticize islam. seethe.

 

it's a free country.

[Delirious]

4 hours ago, CaptainMusic said:

The way you thought you did something here, embarrassing.

Right

 

Islam says that being gay is wrong and because of it gays are still being killed around the world. 
 

If the OP wants to post threads which expose the extreme homophobia among Muslims then he should be allowed to, especially on a forum where most of the members are gay.

 

3 hours ago, Miss Show Business said:

Not OP being accused of Islamophobia for posting things actual muslims are saying 

I despise all religion. However we have to differentiate between these religions and take into account the history to understand why we are where we are today.

 

Christianity had huge ideological challenges beginning in the sixteenth century with Protestantism, and over time, these mainline Protestant churches became very progressive and affirming in practice, at least in the US. The most affirming churches here are the mainline Protestant churches.

 

I have never heard of an affirming mosque, and probably never will, unless Islam has a radical ideological shift like the Christian reformation. Christians largely accept that different denominations have different beliefs and practice differently. Islam? Well... There is only really one way to practice Islam, and that is the Quran, Sharia law, and the Hadiths. Any deviance from this is not accepted, and all condemn homosexuality, explicitly.

 

Apostasy is still punishable by death in some Islamic countries. Whereas this isn't still a thing in the "Christian world". The "Christian world" has its own set of challenges, sure, but they're not debating things like apostasy! These things were debated and solved centuries ago.

 

There are extremists in Christianity, but we largely don't accept this as Christian. Any extremists pledging violence, probably don't / wouldn't have alot of adherents in the western world.

 

Christianity and Islam are at completely different places in their lifespans. I'm sure there are many accepting Muslims, but I doubt that it's the majority 

the fact that they're literally proving my point.

 

The second someone criticizes their religion, they scream ISLAMAPHOBIA and RACIST!!!!

[Delirious]

6 hours ago, SmittenCake said:

@ATRL Feedback @ATRL Administration i hope you guys do something with OP's history of Islamaphobia. Its seriously triggering 

here you are making yourself the victim again. let's talk about your racist behaviour torwards the chinese or your millions of posts slamming black rappers  which is very triggering for me.

Edited October 16, 2022 by Delirious

[Delirious]

5 hours ago, Communion said:

So you mean they interpret it differently, like has always been done with religion due to its nature of not being essentialist truths?  You realize a liberal Muslim and a conservative Muslim are both Muslim, right?

 

So you if you acknowledge there are *different* kinds of Muslims, you see why posts like these that say "all Muslims hate gays and want to establish Sharia law" would be illogical or, at worst, hateful to most, right?

 

 

This is why someone hating religion does not make them inherently liberal or progressive. And this issue is not unique to those who are resentful of Islam. "New Atheism" is largely ex-Christians who hold conservative views no different than Christianity. Which is the core issue that ex-Muslims refuse to grasp.

 

I'm a gay communist; of course I disagree with the tenants of conservatism regardless of what religion people try to use to justify such conservative views. But many Muslims or Christians being conservative doesn't then mean that someone who is an ex-Christian or ex-Muslim is on my side or also progressive because these people are often just as conservative, but just in a different way. 

 

So yes, I'm going to disagree with the notion that this is a fight against "Islam" (which is *always* a code meant to say this is a fight against /Muslims/) when MY fight is against conservatism and there are countless progressive pro-LGBT Muslims on *my* side.

 

 

Rashida Tlaib is the Muslim congresswoman who represents the district Dearborn is in.

Abdullah Hammoud is the progressive Muslim mayor of Dearborn. 

Dearborn overwhelming supported Bernie Sanders and his pro-LGBT agenda in 2016 and 2020.

 

It literally says in the quran that gay sex is a sin. Stop disregarding this fact. If you follow islam, then you believe in the quran.

[shinyshimmery]

1 hour ago, Scars said:

Why is it so difficult for some of y'all to discuss or rightfully condemn the protest posted by OP without resorting to anti-immigration and/or racist rhetoric? 

 

No one there said they dislike the US. Some lebanese-american families have been in Dearborn since the early 20th century, I find it hard to believe they see anywhere other than America as a home and even if that's not the case for those at the protest, telling conversatives or bigoted people to pack and leave doesn't seem to be really productive to actually tackle and fight discrimination.

 

People usually know this and that's why we never see ATRLers telling homophobic white christian republicans to leave the US or transphobic white british TERFs to leave the UK, but that seems to be a quite popular take in any thread related to conservative muslims. Inch resting.

There’s no way to coexist with religious extremists and you know that. That’s why in the US we need to keep fighting to protect the constitution. Yes, religious extremists are protected as well… but when they do things like this in public it means they are a threat to LGBT rights and freedoms.

 

That’s why I say, pack up and leave if you want to so badly change the laws. Cus this ain't a third world country.

[State of Grace.]

1 hour ago, Scars said:

Why is it so difficult for some of y'all to discuss or rightfully condemn the protest posted by OP without resorting to anti-immigration and/or racist rhetoric?