discussion Abbas Meets Putin: Distrusts USA as Sole Mediator in Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

[FightForTanas]

Not people here laughing at the Palestinian people because of something that a representative said.  They have no control over that.  

[Communion]

OP spreading misinformation when the quote is literally about if they trust Russia as a mediator regarding Israel and how to find a two state solution. 

 

There's literally no way to leave the title as vague as it is and as misleading as it is without trying to incite hatred for Palestinians. 

 

Literally from the article:

Quote

Abbas reiterated his support for the so-called Quartet of international mediators - Russia, the United States, the United Nations and the European Union - but said the United States could not be left a free hand to act alone.

 

Quote

Abbas said he was "completely satisfied" with Russia's position towards the Palestinian people.

I know the OP had gotten more increasingly reactionary and Islamophobic over the years bur this blatant trolling is cruel and offensive. Imagine if someone did this regarding Ukraine. 

 

I've reported the thread title for being misleading but can yall please intervene? @Bloo @khalyan

Edited October 14, 2022 by Communion

[ZIVERT]

5 minutes ago, Mikeymoonshine said:

Zionists will literally use any excuse to justify what Israel is doing. As if Palestinian political leaders being bad or Palestinian culture being homophobic justifies this 

 

 

Gay Palestinians and women in Palestine are not helped by denial of atrocities committed by Israel.

 

And what about the thousands of Ukrainian kids that have been kidnapped or killed by Russian forces since the invasion of Ukraine? Why can't we talk about the subject at hand - Abbas, the democratically elected leader (indefinitely since 2005 since there are no more elections in the West Bank) of the internationally recognized government of the Palestinians, supports the Russian annexation of 4 territories of Ukraine. These children's murders have nothing to do with their leader supporting the occupation of Ukraine, despite talking out the other side of his mouth at the UN about how the occupation of the Palestinian territories needs to end. Their deaths are very tragic and sad, but the mention does nothing to further the actual topic of the thread, only to distract from Abbas' puzzling foreign policy.

[ZIVERT]

4 minutes ago, Communion said:

OP spreading misinformation when the quote is literally about if they trust Russia as a mediator regarding Israel. 

 

I know the OP had gotten more increasingly reactionary and Islamophobic over the years bur this blatant trolling is cruel and offensive. Imagine if someone did this regarding Ukraine. 

 

I've reported the thread title for being misleading but can yall please intervene? @Bloo @khalyan

My OP is quoted directly from the Reuters article, which is also fully quoted in the original post - no misinformation here. Any problems should be taken up with Reuters, or with Mahmoud Abbas himself. I know that you have become increasingly anti-Semitic over the last few months, but you can't always rewrite other people's posts and intentions to fit your own agenda.

[Communion]

3 minutes ago, ZIVERT said:

My OP is quoted directly from the Reuters article, which is also fully quoted in the post  

This is literally you admitting that the way you've included the quote in the title is not complete and is literally misleading. 

 

The literal article quoted goes on to explain how the quote is in reference to if Russia respects internal law in regards to Palestine and Israel, but which they also then to say so does the EU and UN, but not the US, who they claim ignores Israel human rights violations. 

 

I'm so sorry for what is happening to Ukraine but whatever resentment you have rightfully to Russia is not a reason to promote misinformation and try to get people to hate Palestinians. 

Edited October 14, 2022 by Communion

[ZIVERT]

3 minutes ago, Communion said:

This is literally you admitting that the way you've included the quote in the title is not complete and is literally misleading. 

 

The literal article quoted goes on to explain how the quote is in reference to if Russia respects internal law in regards to Palestine and Israel, but which they also then to say so does the EU and UN, but not the US, who they claim ignores Israel human rights violations. 

 

I'm so sorry for what is happening to Ukraine but whatever resentment you have rightfully to Russia is not a reason to promote misinformation and try to get people to hate Palestinians. 

Right, so meeting with Putin after he "annexed" 4 territories of Ukraine and praising him for his stance on international law and justice isn't sus at all. If only mental gymnastics was an Olympic sport  

[Mikeymoonshine]

1 minute ago, e_yal said:

" as Israel who actually was nominated for 8200 this is pure BS. These guys working to target and prevent terror attacks and you quote a source which is not even left but anti israeli site - Ha hartz. 

 

Israel have arabs in it's chosen house, israel give them full rights ofc, israel is only defend itself and even if dont care about women rights, gay rights and support terror ( three things you do as a Palestinian supporter) im sorry you will not convince me we should "Free" a country that made its flag in 1956 (after Israel created), that never had a coin or capital city, that was under the British and othmans's rule and basically living on people like you that would believe that BS that Israel Kill innocent children for fun. I suggest you to come to Israel once and see the reality for yourself until then keep your Palestine fantasy or poor women and children raped by israeli hunk soldiers 

The info comes from an open letter signed by 43 people who either were at the time serving in Unit 8200. The article I posted merely detailed those accusations. If you don't like that source here is another.

 

https://www.ft.com/content/69f150da-25b8-11e5-bd83-71cb60e8f08c

[Zoomer]

And I don’t blame them. We’ve seen how the US handled the assassination of the American-Palestinian journalist Shereen at the hands of the Israeli terrorist government. 

[Communion]

6 minutes ago, ZIVERT said:

Right, so meeting with Putin after he "annexed" 4 territories of Ukraine

If you want to argue that Russia should not be a world super-power and mediator regarding how Israel and Palestine resolve the two state solution, be forthright and make that argument. But:

1. Your misleading title makes it impossible to know that THAT is what is being discussed here and looks like you're doing it to make people think they're praising Russia against Ukraine which is not what is happening
2. You know - and likely can't make a rebuttal for - that the discussion of if Russia should be barred from being an international mediator and part of how Israel and Palestine negotiate due to Ukraine also means answering to why America has not been banned from supporting Israel and being involved in the two-state solution despite literally invading 3+ sovereign nations in the last 20 years alone.  Why would Palestine turn down Russia advocating for it internationally due to its horrific yet unrelated actions in Ukraine while Israel has never once rejected support from America over the last several decades where they tallied up deaths from illegal invasions in the millions? Please be honest for a second. 

Again, I get why you're angry and frustrated, but lying about and inciting hatred to Palestinians is honestly not the way to go about releasing that resentment. My heart breaks for you and I promise you this is below you.

Edited October 14, 2022 by Communion

[Mikeymoonshine]

19 minutes ago, ZIVERT said:

And what about the thousands of Ukrainian kids that have been kidnapped or killed by Russian forces since the invasion of Ukraine? Why can't we talk about the subject at hand - Abbas, the democratically elected leader (indefinitely since 2005 since there are no more elections in the West Bank) of the internationally recognized government of the Palestinians, supports the Russian annexation of 4 territories of Ukraine. These children's murders have nothing to do with their leader supporting the occupation of Ukraine, despite talking out the other side of his mouth at the UN about how the occupation of the Palestinian territories needs to end. Their deaths are very tragic and sad, but the mention does nothing to further the actual topic of the thread, only to distract from Abbas' puzzling foreign policy.

What about them I haven't defended Russia I've asked why people in Ukraine seem to matter so much more than people in Palestine to people in this thread. People who chose to come here and mock the idea of caring about Palestinains at all it's disgusting and you know it. 

 

I've already addressed this but maybe Palestinian leaders wouldn't turn to Russia if countries like the US recognised Palestine and accepted the reality of what Israel is doing. Those in this thread who support Israel do not have a leg to stand on when it comes to criticising someone for supporting Russia I'm sorry. 

 

Obviously Russia is bad, obviously Palestine's leaders are bad but they are the result of the circumstances. 

[ClashAndBurn]

24 minutes ago, ZIVERT said:

The United States has also given the PA billions of dollars in aid over the years, so I'm not sure why Abbas trusts the Americans to give him his country money, but doesn't trust the Americans to help create a two state solution. Maybe because the US doesn't support the "kick all the Jews into the sea" all-or-nothing Palestinian point of view in the conflict?

The Israeli point of view isn’t a two-state solution either (as expressed by both Netanyahu and Bennett) and they literally want to evict all non-Jews from land they’ve been living on for centuries with their illegal settlements and annexations, but that’s not really convenient for Ukrainian whataboutist supporters of Israel like you to admit to, is it?
 

The US and UK illegally established a settler colonial state that displaced the people already living there under the occupation of the British Empire because they didn’t want the Jewish diaspora in their own countries. The US itself was also an illegal settler colonial state built on stolen land by slave labor and should not exist either, so birds of a feather and all that.

[ZIVERT]

4 minutes ago, Communion said:

If you want to argue that Russia should not be a world super-power and mediator regarding how Israel and Palestine resolve the two state solution, be forthright and make that argument. But:

1. Your misleading title makes it impossible to know that THAT is what is being discussed here and looks like you're doing it to make people think they're praising Russia against Ukraine which is not what is happening
2. You know - and likely can't make a rebuttal for - that the discussion of if Russia should be barred from being an international mediator and part of how Israel and Palestine negotiate due to Ukraine also means answering to why America has not been banned from supporting Israel and being involved in the two-state solution despite literally invading 3+ sovereign nations in the last 20 years alone.  Why would Palestine turn down Russia advocating for it internationally due to its horrific yet unrelated actions in Ukraine while Israel has never once rejected support from America over the last several decades where they tallied up deaths from illegal invasions in the millions? Please be honest for a second. 

Again, I get why you're angry and frustrated, but lying about and inciting hatred to Palestinians is honestly not the way to go about releasing that resentment. My heart breaks for you and I promise you this is below you.

Maybe he isn't directly praising Russia against Ukraine, but he is normalizing and advocating Russia's history of invading and occupying other countries' territories - whether it's Ukraine, whether it's Georgia, whether it's in Moldova, or anywhere else Putin feels the need to overextend his hand. Abbas comes out of this meeting looking like a hypocrite - he has basically said "It's okay when you do it, but not when Israel does it to us." In fact, Israelis argue over how much aid they should give Ukraine because Ukraine has abstained or voted against Israeli interests whenever the Palestinian conflict comes up at the UN. Because Ukraine consistently votes against what it views as occupation, in all forms. Abbas, while representing his people, made the choice to ignore all that in the hopes that Russia will somehow come out on top in this war, and reset the world order that favors the United States and the West. I don't believe - and I hope - that Palestinians don't agree with what Russia is doing in Ukraine. I don't support the occupation of the West Bank and I don't support the creation of Jewish Israeli settlements in Palestine (despite supporting the right for the State of Israel to exist), so I would hope Palestinians would extend Ukrainians that same grace. But there is no way to tell, since there are no free elections whatsoever in any of the Palestinian Territories.

 

Palestine is only interested in Russia being involved because Russia is the foreign policy antithesis to everything the US stands for. Russia is not a good faith actor, and is one of the main reasons why the Zionist movement started in the first place. From the pogroms, spreading the Protocols of Zion myth, not allowing Soviet Jews to leave the country, and now shutting down the Jewish Agency, Russia has consistently proven that they are not an ally to Jewish people, but a necessary evil that Jews (and the rest of the world) have to deal with. Not to mention Russia consistently supporting the Iranian regime, which is outspoken in its hatred for Jewish people and the State of Israel. From a foreign policy point of view, it makes sense to cling to Russia, but if Palestinians truly want to make peace with the Jews and have a two state solution, I think it can be argued that Russia has just as much of an interest in meddling with Israel as the US has in meddling with the Palestinians. I don't know how peace can be achieved, but it certainly won't be led by a Russian initiative.

[Oxy]

2 hours ago, liver said:

but #FreePalestine, right?

And I still saying it and will keep doing so.

 

The moment Caucasian people get attacked y’all weep, but Muslims getting butchered and their lands stolen, crickets. 
 

Keep the same energy with human rights violations, France is still colonizing parts of Africa, Myanmar president killing Muslims and she is rewarded as a humanitarian of the year. 
 

like get the eff out of here… 

[ZIVERT]

13 minutes ago, ClashAndBurn said:

The Israeli point of view isn’t a two-state solution either (as expressed by both Netanyahu and Bennett) and they literally want to evict all non-Jews from land they’ve been living on for centuries with their illegal settlements and annexations, but that’s not really convenient for Ukrainian whataboutist supporters of Israel like you to admit to, is it?

Except none of those men are currently the Prime Minister of Israel - Yair Lapid just spoke at the UN supporting a two state solution. Not to mention, there are Israeli Arab citizens of Israel and Palestinians working within the territory of Israel, but Jews are banned from entering Palestine. This can literally go ***-for-tat, but all of these side anecdotes and personal attacks doesn't change the fact that Mahmoud Abbas supports occupation and annexation when it isn't happening to his people.

 

The US and UK illegally established a settler colonial state that displaced the people already living there under the occupation of the British Empire because they didn’t want the Jewish diaspora in their own countries. The US itself was also an illegal settler colonial state built on stolen land by slave labor and should not exist either, so birds of a feather and all that.

• Location: Georgia, US

So get out?

 

Also, you say was in the past tense, like the US still isn't a settler colonial state... Seems like you've accepted the fact that the US is already established and will continue to exist, so there isn't a need to protest its existence. What makes Israel any different?

[ClashAndBurn]

8 minutes ago, ZIVERT said:

Except none of those men are currently the Prime Minister of Israel - Yair Lapid just spoke at the UN supporting a two state solution. Not to mention, there are Israeli Arab citizens of Israel and Palestinians working within the territory of Israel, but Jews are banned from entering Palestine. This can literally go ***-for-tat, but all of these side anecdotes and personal attacks doesn't change the fact that Mahmoud Abbas supports occupation and annexation when it isn't happening to his people.

 

 

 

• Location: Georgia, US

So get out?

 

Also, you say was in the past tense, like the US still isn't a settler colonial state... Seems like you've accepted the fact that the US is already established and will continue to exist, so there isn't a need to protest its existence. What makes Israel any different?

Was, meaning “was established as one” not “was and no longer is.” You can attempt at being cute and arguing semantics though.

 

”Getting out” isn’t an option for me, and I’d prefer to protest shitty troglodyte leaders like Trump and Biden from within anyway. You sound like every Republican who talks to a BLM protestor when you say things like that though  

[Nano]

34 minutes ago, ClashAndBurn said:

The US and UK illegally established a settler colonial state that displaced the people already living there under the occupation of the British Empire because they didn’t want the Jewish diaspora in their own countries.

Shut the **** up. A whole freaking coalition of Arab countries attacked Israel in 1947 and the US and UK didn't do a damn thing to help. Only reason Israel is still standing today is because of Israeli soldiers who defended their country.

 

3 minutes ago, ClashAndBurn said:

”Getting out” isn’t an option for me

Guess what, "getting out" isn't an option for many of us either, genius.

Edited October 14, 2022 by Nano

[ZIVERT]

5 hours ago, ClashAndBurn said:

Was, meaning “was established as one” not “was and no longer is.” You can attempt at being cute and arguing semantics though.

 

”Getting out” isn’t an option for me, and I’d prefer to protest shitty troglodyte leaders like Trump and Biden from within anyway. You sound like every Republican who talks to a BLM protestor when you say things like that though  

Well that's kind of the point. The majority of people who argue for #FreePalestine want Israel to cease to exist, and haven't given much thought to where the 9 million people who live there to go since they're too busy demonizing them as inhuman  "go back to Europe!!!!" sounds ridiculous at best, and antisemitic at worst considering the history of the Jews there. There are many Israelis that disagree with their government's policy towards Palestine, the settlements, and advocate for better treatment for their Palestinian neighbors in the same way that you protest shitty American leaders.

[Bosque]

Hilarious. Palestine should’ve taken whatever deal they could have 40,30,20 or 10 years ago. Now they have to ***** themselves out to Putin. 

[AlanRickman1946]

Wasn't this thread locked?

[Specter]

1 hour ago, ZIVERT said:

The majority of people who argue for #FreePalestine want Israel to cease to exist

...cease to exist as in its current ethno-state form, sis. Not cease to exist as in "Jewish citizens of Israel - LEAVE!!" I really hope you don't think that becau... 

 

1 hour ago, ZIVERT said:

where the 9 million people who live there to go

 luv, they're staying exactly where they are. They would just become Jewish citizens of the state of Palestine, or whatever the new non-ethno-state will be inevitably called. 

 

This concept that people want to force out all the Jews out of Israel is so unserious, and is only peddled by a select few voices with vested interest in propagating fear. Please don't fall for it. 

 

And what's sadder is that people ARE really, in the truest sense of the word, being forced out. There is land that is ceasing to exist as we speak... 

 

... And it's not Israel or its citizens.

[Nano]

1 hour ago, Phantom said:

Not cease to exist as in "Jewish citizens of Israel - LEAVE!!" I really hope you don't think that becau... 

That's the reality of the situation. A two-state solution is currently impossible and is not what the Palestinians want. The alternative, where it becomes one big "free" country, would never happen without revolutionary methods and, if successful, would result in the surviving Jews being forced to leave. And thus the world would have another refugee crisis on its hands.

[Gui Blackout]

Well I guess he's just following on the tradition of Palestinian leaders aligning with fascist dictators 

 

[Vermillion]

5 hours ago, AlanRickman1946 said:

Wasn't this thread locked?

I'd post here on this topic but since we're into this territory now that I wasn't aware of I won't bother.

[ZIVERT]

5 hours ago, AlanRickman1946 said:

Wasn't this thread locked?

 

27 minutes ago, Espresso said:

I'd post here on this topic but since we're into this territory now that I wasn't aware of I won't bother.

The thread was mass reported to shut down the conversation, so a mod closed it without reading the contents because they were busy. But upon reading it, I guess they gracefully decided to re-open it

[Vermillion]

4 minutes ago, ZIVERT said:

 

The thread was mass reported to shut down the conversation, so a mod closed it without reading the contents because they were busy. But upon reading it, I guess they gracefully decided to re-open it

Ok fine, good to know I guess. I'm trying to resolve CloudFlare issue with a mod elsewhere so I won't be back here for a while anyways.