news Russia to stop men from leaving the country next week

[Cloudy]

1 hour ago, WhoWho said:

Firstly, Russians did protest back when the conflict started.

 

 

Secondly, they stopped “condemning” the war because this action could get them from 10 to 15 years in prison.

 

I’ll share a little secret with you: Russian government is not obeying its people, it’s the other way around. Why? That’s a second secret: because Russians are afraid of getting killed or going to jail if they protest and get caught. 
 

Also, Russian regime is much more powerful than the Iranian one is lol. Russia has 5 million of policemen & special service agents, and they passed the laws that these people can shoot the crowd, when it gathers for protest. Also, don’t forget about spying camera system that was implemented in the big Russian cities years ago, that helps Russian police to find protesters MONTHS after protests.
 

I hope that clears up WHY Russians weren’t PUBLICLY condemning the war.

 

Also, the notion that Russians = Propaganda Rhetoric = Russian Government is idiotic. Would you say the same for Chinese Government and Chinese People? Or for Ukrainian Government and Ukrainian People before the 2013 Revolution?

I know if they were protesting very minimally, women and men in Iran are also being charged with the death penalty, being killed and still are protesting. The excuse is not cutting anymore, if they were really tired of the government and its actions that has honestly been ******* them up for quite some time they would massively take to the streets. Are you telling me Putin or his thugs would be able to stop the almost 12M citizens Moscow has? No, they wouldn't, it doesn't happen because most of them simply not care and share the same values and views and don't bother with the propaganda thing because here in Europe we all know they have all kind of social media, Internet and love to vacation here all the god damn time

Edited September 25, 2022 by Cloudy

[WhoWho]

Iranian regime is 43 years old. Putin’s regime got authoritarian less than 10 years ago, you do realise that it takes time for people to get brave enough to risk their lives for the goals, that they may not even achieve? It takes time for people to realise what’s going on when most of their media is state controlled.

also you clearly don’t understand what propaganda means if you think that people impacted by propaganda are aware what is propaganda or not, and can just pick & choose what to believe in, without encountering alternative point of the view on the daily basis. And while, I’m here, I would like to once again remind you that publicly sharing your opinion that doesn’t align with the opinion of the government will probably get YOU KILLED OR JAILED.

 

also, this whole thread reeks of russophobia. You do realise that Russians didn’t protest because they were scared, but knew that at least their families are safe if they stay silent? Now Russians basically need to go to war and kill more Ukrainians in order to save their status quo, so when you’re saying “it’s what they deserve” - you are basically saying “more Ukrainian civilians and military will die & that’s okay because at least now Russians won’t have the option to look the other way”. 
 

mind you, mass mobilisation still doesn’t guarantee a revolution, a coup or a new regime. it only guarantees that MORE PEOPLE will die.

 

And finally, the “love to vacation” thing. Less than 30% of Russians even have international passports. Even less have money to use them. And even less are getting visas from EU. Now that we have about 10% - that’s about the same number of people that actively go to protests. See the connection?

 

5 minutes ago, Cloudy said:

I know if they were protesting very minimally, women and men in Iran are also being charged with the death penalty, being killed and still are protesting. The excuse is not cutting anymore, if they were really tired of the government and its actions that has honestly been ******* them up for quite some time they would massively take to the streets. Are you telling me Putin or his thugs would be able to stop the almost 12M citizens Moscow has? No, they wouldn't, it doesn't happen because most of them simply not care and share the same values and views and don't bother with the propaganda thing because here in Europe we all know they have all kind of social media, Internet and love to vacation here all the god damn time

 

[Cloudy]

34 minutes ago, WhoWho said:

Iranian regime is 43 years old. Putin’s regime got authoritarian less than 10 years ago, you do realise that it takes time for people to get brave enough to risk their lives for the goals, that they may not even achieve? It takes time for people to realise what’s going on when most of their media is state controlled.

also you clearly don’t understand what propaganda means if you think that people impacted by propaganda are aware what is propaganda or not, and can just pick & choose what to believe in, without encountering alternative point of the view on the daily basis. And while, I’m here, I would like to once again remind you that publicly sharing your opinion that doesn’t align with the opinion of the government will probably get YOU KILLED OR JAILED.

 

also, this whole thread reeks of russophobia. You do realise that Russians didn’t protest because they were scared, but knew that at least their families are safe if they stay silent? Now Russians basically need to go to war and kill more Ukrainians in order to save their status quo, so when you’re saying “it’s what they deserve” - you are basically saying “more Ukrainian civilians and military will die & that’s okay because at least now Russians won’t have the option to look the other way”. 
 

mind you, mass mobilisation still doesn’t guarantee a revolution, a coup or a new regime. it only guarantees that MORE PEOPLE will die.

 

And finally, the “love to vacation” thing. Less than 30% of Russians even have international passports. Even less have money to use them. And even less are getting visas from EU. Now that we have about 10% - that’s about the same number of people that actively go to protests. See the connection?

 

 

The mind gymnastics good lord, bordering Communion territory, can't believe you typed that and actually thought it made any sense

[ZIVERT]

Maybe there is a problem with your status quo if it means you need to kill innocent people in order to preserve it, no?

 

[WhoWho]

25 minutes ago, ZIVERT said:

Maybe there is a problem with your status quo if it means you need to kill innocent people in order to preserve it, no?

 

Wanna volunteer to help Russians change it?

 

[Communion]

2 hours ago, WhoWho said:

Iranian regime is 43 years old. Putin’s regime got authoritarian less than 10 years ago, you do realise that it takes time for people to get brave enough to risk their lives for the goals, that they may not even achieve? It takes time for people to realise what’s going on when most of their media is state controlled.

also you clearly don’t understand what propaganda means if you think that people impacted by propaganda are aware what is propaganda or not, and can just pick & choose what to believe in, without encountering alternative point of the view on the daily basis. And while, I’m here, I would like to once again remind you that publicly sharing your opinion that doesn’t align with the opinion of the government will probably get YOU KILLED OR JAILED.

 

also, this whole thread reeks of russophobia. You do realise that Russians didn’t protest because they were scared, but knew that at least their families are safe if they stay silent? Now Russians basically need to go to war and kill more Ukrainians in order to save their status quo, so when you’re saying “it’s what they deserve” - you are basically saying “more Ukrainian civilians and military will die & that’s okay because at least now Russians won’t have the option to look the other way”. 
 

mind you, mass mobilisation still doesn’t guarantee a revolution, a coup or a new regime. it only guarantees that MORE PEOPLE will die.

 

And finally, the “love to vacation” thing. Less than 30% of Russians even have international passports. Even less have money to use them. And even less are getting visas from EU. Now that we have about 10% - that’s about the same number of people that actively go to protests. See the connection?

 

 

In this century alone:

 

Millions killed in Afghanistan by countless Americans, British, Canadians, Germans, French, Italians, Australians, etc. Did any of these people depose of their elected leaders and overthrow their government for killing so many Afghans? No, simply voicing their disagreement with the war (years later) was enough.

 

Millions killed in Iraq by countless Americans, British, Italians, Spaniards, Dutch, Danes, Australians, Polish, etc. Did any of these people depose of their elected leaders and overthrow their government for killing so many Iraqis? No, simply voicing their disagreement with the war (years later) was enough.

It's one thing for people to have a certain viewpoint, but the complete lack of moral consistency and hypocrisy constantly expressed by a certain sector of those residing in the Imperial Core, even in Europe, is wild.

 

If people want to peddle in the politics of revenge, sure, but the sheer inability to realize that such standards would not be kind fo Europe and its history of needless violence...

Edited September 25, 2022 by Communion

[ZIVERT]

22 minutes ago, WhoWho said:

Wanna volunteer to help Russians change it?

 

No, I volunteer to help other Ukrainians who have lost their homes and livelihoods because of Russian imperialism and political apathy. Maybe you should volunteer?

 

[WhoWho]

1 minute ago, ZIVERT said:

No, I volunteer to help other Ukrainians who have lost their homes and livelihoods because of Russian imperialism and political apathy. Maybe you should volunteer?

 

I sent money to Ukrainian refugees in Europe multiple times.

 

but let’s get back to you: you don’t want to risk your life for Russian people, but want Russian people to risk their lives for Ukrainian people? See how there might be an error in your logic here?

[WhoWho]

13 minutes ago, Communion said:

In this century alone:

 

Millions killed in Afghanistan by countless Americans, British, Canadians, Germans, French, Italians, Australians, etc. Did any of these people depose of their elected leaders and overthrow their government for killing so many Iraqis? No, simply voicing their disagreement with the war (years later) was enough.

 

Millions killed in Iraq by countless Americans, British, Italians, Spaniards, Dutch, Danes, Australians, Polish, etc. Did any of these people depose of their elected leaders and overthrow their government for killing so many Iraqis? No, simply voicing their disagreement with the war (years later) was enough.

It's one thing for people to have a certain viewpoint, but the complete lack of moral consistency and hypocrisy constantly expressed by a certain sector of those residing in the Imperial Core, even in Europe, is wild.

 

If people want to peddle in the politics of revenge, sure, but the way they don't realize such would not be kind fo Europe.

You always see the same 3 russophobes in those Eastern European threads. Like come on it’s embarrassing to be this radicalised…

[Cheers]

5 hours ago, LustSpell said:

All those people memeing in Russia about the war and putting Z's on everything are now panicking trying to leave and erase support for the Russian government  Pathetic. They thought it'd never happen to them after their country got EMBARRASSED by Ukraine.

 

4 hours ago, Cloudy said:

I mean they are only now rallying because it's their Moscow and St. Peter's white asses being the ones drafted. They didn't give two fucks when it was people from the non white republics from the east...It's hard to feel sympathy when you see them not condemning the invasion at all and trying to scape through other countries Russia has been hostile towards to like Georgia with the ******* fascist Z in their chest like

 

They don't feel any remorse in the slightest, they just don't want their asses to be the ones served. Of course not all people are like that but most Russians are, whether people like to accept it or not. It's long overdue they take matters at hand and do something, it's their country after all.

 

Also the excuse of "the situation is different in those countries" ain't working no more because you have all the people of Iran a far more repressive regime doing far and beyond for their freedom, justice and to challenge the status quo.

 

5 hours ago, qurl said:

good

 

let them die for a war they were ambivalent to until they realized they had to get involved

   

 

Exactly. You want to stand by that horrible President and his views? Then stand in the front line for him . If they don’t want to be associated with Putin and disagree with him, stand AGAINST him. Don’t be cowardly men and try to flee your nation while YOUR president is doing awful things.

[ZIVERT]

19 minutes ago, WhoWho said:

I sent money to Ukrainian refugees in Europe multiple times.

 

but let’s get back to you: you don’t want to risk your life for Russian people, but want Russian people to risk their lives for Ukrainian people? See how there might be an error in your logic here?

The difference is I don’t owe anything to Russia or Russian people because Ukrainians aren’t the aggressors. You can’t “both sides” a genocidal imperialist invasion babes

 

[ZIVERT]

21 minutes ago, WhoWho said:

You always see the same 3 russophobes in those Eastern European threads. Like come on it’s embarrassing to be this radicalised…

You and ATRL user Communion’s not so thinly veiled “Ukrainians are Russophobic Nazis” thinkpieces should be archived for future case studies on delusion and coping

 

[WhoWho]

10 minutes ago, ZIVERT said:

You and ATRL user Communion’s not so thinly veiled “Ukrainians are Russophobic Nazis” thinkpieces should be archived for future case studies on delusion and coping

 

You see what you wanna see, I guess

Edited September 25, 2022 by WhoWho

[WhoWho]

14 minutes ago, ZIVERT said:

The difference is I don’t owe anything to Russia or Russian people because Ukrainians aren’t the aggressors. You can’t “both sides” a genocidal imperialist invasion babes

 

The way you equate Russians and Russian Government is telling me everything I need to know about your narrative.

I would suggest that you stop generalising all Russians as a monolith, which you tend to do across hundreds of other threads on the topic(which by the way is a problematic sign), and research how protest & free speech work in authoritarian regimes.

[ZIVERT]

3 minutes ago, WhoWho said:

The way you equate Russians and Russian Government is telling me everything I need to know about your narrative.

I would suggest that you stop generalising all Russians as a monolith, which you tend to do across hundreds of other threads on the topic(which by the way is a problematic sign), and research how protest & free speech work in authoritarian regimes.

No.

 

[WhoWho]

1 minute ago, ZIVERT said:

No.

 

That's what I thought.
 

49 minutes ago, WhoWho said:

Come on it’s embarrassing to be this radicalised…

[ZIVERT]

3 minutes ago, WhoWho said:

That's what I thought.
 

Not as embarrassing as peddling Russian propaganda and not even being Russian

 

[WhoWho]

4 minutes ago, ZIVERT said:

Not as embarrassing as peddling Russian propaganda and not even being Russian

 

I'm sorry. Can you highlight the exact reply where I was "peddling Russian propaganda". I can't recall anything like this

[Toudi]

Well, a lot of russians support Putin and this war. A lot of them has had "Z" sign sticked to their cars. I feel bad for the one who don't support Putin and can't afford to escape the country but they can always surrender.

[harwee]

On 9/25/2022 at 6:30 AM, anti-***** said:

Zelensky said this

"Ukraine guarantees every Russian soldier who surrenders three things. First, you will be treated in a civilized manner, in accordance with all conventions.

"Second, no one will know the circumstances of your surrender, no one in Russia will know that your surrender was voluntary.

"And third, if you are afraid to return to Russia and do not want an exchange, we will find a way to ensure this as well."

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-latest-news-putins-forces-clearly-in-panic-russia-12541713

 

Its over for Russia

 

 

 

 

[Peroxide]

On 9/25/2022 at 1:35 PM, CaptainMusic said:

Neither do most of the people who leave their countries to escape war and yet they do. 

 

Many of these men didn’t give a **** when Ukraine was being attacked and only care now that it’s their lives on the line so it’s hard to feel sorry for them when they should’ve prepared for this obvious draft. 

I hear you but you have you appreciate there are millions of Russians who want no part in this war… so many men and women don’t have the financial means to just get up and leave… just last week the least expensive ticket out of Russia (direct to Dubai) was worth almost $4000.

 

Think about it, these men have families, they could even be carers for sick parents or grandparents? There could be a slew of factors why certain individuals weren’t able to flee.

[Bosque]

Russians overwhelmingly supported Putin's regime and Ukraine invasion recently. This has been proven over and over and over again by many surveys and studies that correct for the authoritarian bias.  I will always feel much more empathy for the Ukrainians who are attacked unprovoked in their homeland than for lazy Russians who didn't even give enough of a **** to leave their genocidal country while it was still comfortable for them - let alone go to the streets and protest. Sorry not sorry. Yes there is a minority in Russia that is outspoken against the war and they should be protected but it's absolutely delusional to pretend like 70-80% didn't support his senseless massacre in Ukraine