discussion Swedish elections: Far-right neo-nazi party now 2nd biggest in parliament

[Communion]

 

 

[Bosque]

I guess that's what happens when, within a few short years, you let in foreigners measuring 10-20% of your population who are completely uneducated and unwilling to integrate into society, leading to innocent mothers and children being shot on a playground, and instead of listening to the people making up your democracy, all the mainstream parties simply shrug their shoulders and say "anyone who thinks drug trafficking and murdering children on a playground is bad is just a right-wing racist".

[Communion]

4 minutes ago, Dephira said:

I guess that's what happens when, within a few short years, you let in foreigners

Seems like a bit of a racist and objectively incorrect theory given the gender breakdown in polls:

 

If the claim is sexual and gender-based violence from largely male-migrant foreigners, why are men more likely to vote for neo-nazis than women? 

Edited September 12, 2022 by Communion

[Bosque]

4 minutes ago, Communion said:

 

 

If the claim is sexual and gender-based violence from largely male-migrant foreigners

"If I completely invent your argument out of nowhere and strawman the **** out of what you wrote, how come your argument doesn't make any sense anymore??"

 

Gun violence deaths in Sweden 

 

Not that Swedish "male-migrant foreigners" are anything to scoff at regarding gender-based violence either: 

Sweden’s Lund University researcher faces prosecution for study that showed most rapes are committed by immigrants

Given your immense love of Western free speech and democracy I'm sure you will be quick to condemn the actions taken by the Swedish government here

Edited September 12, 2022 by Dephira

[Communion]

4 minutes ago, Dephira said:

and strawman the **** out of what you wrote

What you wrote:

12 minutes ago, Dephira said:

 leading to innocent mothers and children being shot on a playground

Reality:

Women not becoming nazis in response to claims of violence against women surging due to migrant growth.

 

Why are you unable to answer how your claims reconcile with a huge gender gap in the votes?

Why are male Swedes so much more likely to be compelled to become neo-nazis in face of migrants than women?

Edited September 12, 2022 by Communion

[Mean Trees]

8 minutes ago, Dephira said:

I guess that's what happens when, within a few short years, you let in foreigners measuring 10-20% of your population who are completely uneducated and unwilling to integrate into society, leading to innocent mothers and children being shot on a playground, and instead of listening to the people making up your democracy, all the mainstream parties simply shrug their shoulders and say "anyone who thinks drug trafficking and murdering children on a playground is bad is just a right-wing racist".

The contrast of this and how you talk about the Russian invasion is... Only non-whites can be invaded and live horrible lives and not get outrage.  The West is all innocent. Let's not talk about Sweden's role in destabilizing the countries that many migrants come from. Including selling weapons that exasperate crisis and benefiting from unequal trade relationships to enslave third world countries to permanent debt servitude. 

[Bosque]

3 minutes ago, Communion said:

What you wrote:

Reality:

Women not becoming nazis in response to claims of violence against women surging due to migrant growth.

 

Why are you unable to answer how your claims reconcile with a huge gender gap in the votes?

Why are male Swedes so much more likely to be compelled to become neo-nazis in face of migrants than women?

Me: bad immigration policies in Sweden are leading to physical violence in actual playgrounds against mothers and children

You: If that's true why do mostly men vote for right-leaning parties???? Gotcha!!

Edited September 12, 2022 by Dephira

[Bosque]

4 minutes ago, Mean Trees said:

The contrast of this and how you talk about the Russian invasion is... Only non-whites can be invaded and live horrible lives and not get outrage.  The West is all innocent. Let's not talk about Sweden's role in destabilizing the countries that many migrants come from. Including selling weapons that exasperate crisis and benefiting from unequal trade relationships to enslave third world countries to permanent debt servitude. 

Uhm I never said any of this. I never said that Sweden is being "invaded" or that the West is "innocent". Sweden's international arms exports are completely negligible at (random examples) 3% of Germany's, and they literally have barely any arms exports to countries involved in Middle Eastern conflicts (which is where most of their non-EU migrants are from). The majority of their tiny weapons exports are to Brazil. Is Brazil somehow involved in destabilizing Syria? Or did you quote the wrong person? Because none of what you're saying makes any logical sense. 

Edited September 12, 2022 by Dephira

[Communion]

Just now, Dephira said:

Me: bad immigration policies in Sweden are leading to physical violence in actual playgrounds against mothers and children

And you're being told that this kind political propaganda fails as disinformation because it - based on polls - clearly didn't result in ethnically Swedish women deciding that 1) this claimed increase of violence from migrants was real or 2) the reasonable reaction to such claims would be far-right politics like expulsion of all non-European migrants.

 

You're only confused because you think the claims of neo-nazis are infallible and can't answer to the reality that those who seem to most believe those claims were not those actually impacted but those with other resentments.

 

There's something deeply disturbing and white supremacist about how you speak about migrants. Not all refugees are "uneducated". Migrants who aren't ethnic Swedes also "makeup Swedish democracy" despite your virulently racist claim that it is only ethnic Swedes who the political parties should be listening to???

[Bosque]

2 minutes ago, Communion said:

 

Not all refugees are "uneducated".

Good thing I never said that. Your strawmanning game is truly unmatched on this forum, and probably the entire continent tbh. 

[Communion]

9 minutes ago, Mean Trees said:

The contrast of this and how you talk about the Russian invasion is... Only non-whites can be invaded and live horrible lives and not get outrage.  The West is all innocent. Let's not talk about Sweden's role in destabilizing the countries that many migrants come from. Including selling weapons that exasperate crisis and benefiting from unequal trade relationships to enslave third world countries to permanent debt servitude. 

It's wild that users like that frame themselves as anti-Trump but then defend the Trumps of other nations. 

 

"Of course Trump is a racist when he claims that that crime is somehow a product of Latino migrants!"

"Of course any rational Swede knows their country is being overrun by uneducated, uncivilized lunatics!"

 

????????????????

 

[Bosque]

2 minutes ago, Communion said:

It's wild that users like that frame themselves as anti-Trump but then defend the Trumps of other nations. 

 

"Of course Trump is a racist when he claims that that crime is somehow a product of Latino migrants!"

"Of course any rational Swede knows their country is being overrun by uneducated, uncivilized lunatics!"

 

????????????????

 

The fact that you think you know my opinion about Trump despite the fact I have literally never said a single word about him on this forum It's truly shocking how your strawmanning mind must work, immediately constructing alternative realities around what other people write, bending reality to fit your ideology. Somewhere in the uncanny valley between "fascinating" and "repulsive"

Edited September 12, 2022 by Dephira

[Communion]

9 minutes ago, Dephira said:

Good thing I never said that

 

12 minutes ago, Communion said:

Not all refugees are "uneducated".

 

35 minutes ago, Dephira said:

you let in foreigners.......who are completely uneducated

???????

 

I'm sorry, but this is some Lauren Southern, Free-Europa white supremacist bait type ****.  

 

The largest three migrants groups into Sweden - DURING THE YEARS YOU ARE CLAIMING VIOLENCE INCREASED IN CORRELATION TO CHANGES IN MIGRANT DEMOGRAPHICS - are refugees from Syria, Afghanistan and Iraq. You're literally trying to reference and make claims about Syrian refugees without saying it explicitly so no one can call out such rhetoric.

 

You quite literally said this group of "foreigners making up 10-20% of the population" are, by large, and I quote:

35 minutes ago, Dephira said:

completely uneducated

Edited September 12, 2022 by Communion

[Phonography]

The way this century is just being a modernized copy of the last one... Grab on girls the thirties are gonna interesting 

[Bosque]

6 minutes ago, Communion said:

 

 

???????

 

I'm sorry, but this is some Lauren Southern, Free-Europa white supremacist bait type ****.  

 

The largest three migrants groups into Sweden - DURING THE YEARS YOU ARE CLAIMING VIOLENCE INCREASED IN CORRELATION TO CHANGES IN MIGRANT DEMOGRAPHICS - are refugees from Syria, Afghanistan and Iraq. You're literally trying to reference and make claims about Syrian refugees without saying it explicitly so no one can call out such rhetoric.

 

You quite literally said this group of "foreigners making up 10-20% of the population" are, by large, and I quote:

The fact that "uneducated foreigners" exist (which is what I said) does not imply that "all refugees are uneducated" (which is what you said and has extremely racist implications - unsurprisingly) - btw not all foreigners are refugees and vice versa - another extreme right-wing talking point you just casually adopted. Didn't you allegedly go to college and accrue student debt? I refuse to believe that you're this bad at basic logic. 

Edited September 12, 2022 by Dephira

[Mean Trees]

16 minutes ago, Communion said:

It's wild that users like that frame themselves as anti-Trump but then defend the Trumps of other nations. 

 

"Of course Trump is a racist when he claims that that crime is somehow a product of Latino migrants!"

"Of course any rational Swede knows their country is being overrun by uneducated, uncivilized lunatics!"

 

????????????????

 

I don't get it! I saw another member of who shows support for your standard corporate liberals in US politics try to justify the attempted assassination of the Argentian vice president by a NEO NAZI! These individuals should stop pretending they have any moral superiority to anyone else.

Edited September 12, 2022 by Mean Trees

[Harrier]

Concerning, to say the least. The gender divide on left & right politics is increasing throughout the world - those stats you posted @Communion are one of the stronger examples I've seen.

 

Why are so many men so angry, why are they so without empathy? Honestly questions that need to be asked

[Corso]

They are pro-choice on abortion and for gay rights... so I don't see how you can say that's "far right" or "Nazi". It seems like they call you that now if you just have concerns about immigration and how muslims will change the secular nature of a country. Its like calling anyone on the left a communist. Its a smear.

[Communion]

50 minutes ago, Dephira said:

Sweden’s Lund University researcher faces prosecution for study that showed most rapes are committed by immigrants

 

20 minutes ago, Dephira said:

Didn't you allegedly go to college and accrue student debt? I refuse to believe that you're this bad at basic logic. 

I'll let the mods handle this personal attack, but you're literally linking to fake news sites:

 

The literal Google quick summary of the site you've linked:

 

 

I'm sorry but your entire line of attack is not new or clever. This is the type of racism people like Lauren Southern and other neo-nazis have peddled for years despite being debunked over and over and you're not going to somehow win in ways they failed to. You're literally posting neo-nazi pushed disinformation. 

 

 

This isn't to criticize how Sweden organizes and handles sex crime data. In fact, much of the world should probably collect sex crime data like Sweden does, but then to use such data irresponsibly and remove said context to create a claim that tracks migration trends to increases in sexual violence that can't actually be substantiated has no other reasoning than to vilify migrants (especially ones from certain areas) and fuel racist thought. 

Edited September 12, 2022 by Communion

[Communion]

17 minutes ago, Harrier said:

Concerning, to say the least. The gender divide on left & right politics is increasing throughout the world - those stats you posted @Communion are one of the stronger examples I've seen.

 

Why are so many men so angry, why are they so without empathy? Honestly questions that need to be asked

At first look, it looks similar to gender-based divides in the US and UK where a lot of racialized resentment is largely centralized amongst working class men due to seeing the new migrant populations as economic obstacles. No clue if the actual data then hashes out to such for Sweden without having to look further into it. 

Edited September 12, 2022 by Communion

[ClashAndBurn]

23 minutes ago, Corso said:

They are pro-choice on abortion and for gay rights... so I don't see how you can say that's "far right" or "Nazi". It seems like they call you that now if you just have concerns about immigration and how muslims will change the secular nature of a country. Its like calling anyone on the left a communist. Its a smear.

"Far right" in Europe generally applies to immigration and fear mongering over racial minorities "invading" and overtaking the domestic white population. Just because they weaponize religion in America (because it's extremely effective here, and our people are much more stupid anti-intellectual and gullible) doesn't mean they would take the same approach in societies that are more secular.

Edited September 12, 2022 by ClashAndBurn

[Bloodflowers.]

They could be #1 party but without over 50% of support they will never come to power since no one wants to collaborate with them to make majority in parliament.

[Corso]

4 minutes ago, ClashAndBurn said:

"Far right" in Europe generally applies to immigration and fear mongering over racial minorities "invading" and overtaking the domestic white population. Just because they weaponize religion in America (because it's extremely effective here, and our people are much more stupid anti-intellectual and gullible) doesn't mean they would take the same approach in societies that are more secular.

They're not going to become secular liberals all the sudden just because they immigrated. It has nothing to do with race, its about beliefs.

 

This is like how they call you racist if you criticize Islam, or an "Islamophobe". Its a smear.

[Communion]

28 minutes ago, Corso said:

They are pro-choice on abortion and for gay rights... so I don't see how you can say that's "far right" or "Nazi".

Quote

As the Sweden Democrats themselves confirmed in their so-called “white book”, the party does have Nazi roots. 

Most of the key people who founded it back in 1988 had backgrounds in extreme right and neo-Nazi movements, with the party’s first chairman, Anders Klarström, previously active in the neo-Nazi Nordiska rikspartiet (“Nordic Realm Party”). The party’s first auditor, Gustaf Ekström, was a Waffen-SS veteran, and had been member of the national socialist party Svensk Socialistisk Samling in the 1940s. 

Quote

The party itself was built on the back of the Sweden Party, which had in 1986 absorbed the openly racist Bevara Sverige Svenskt, “Keep Sweden Swedish” party. 

In its early days, it would campaign with banners saying things like, “No to voting rights for foreigners!”. 

Quote

Over ten years ago, Åkesson declared a “no-tolerance” policy against racism in the party, and the party’s policy is to kick out candidates caught making racist or extremist comments online. But in the run-up to this election, just as in the run-up to elections in 2014 and 2018, several candidates have been found to have extremist links. 

At least five local politicians campaigning for the party in his election have open links to right-wing extremist groups and have spread right-wing extremist and racist propaganda online, an investigation by the Expressen newspaper and Expo magazine found. Nine SD politicians stood down as candidates after the exposé. 

One of the Sweden Democrat candidates wrote, among other things, “isn’t it about time we wipe out those bloody Muslims” on Facebook in 2015. Another candidate encouraged their followers to take part in a demonstration with the neo-nazi Nordic Resistance Movement, sharing conspiracy theories that a number of Jewish families control the world.

Quote

The party’s “Sweden’s future immigration policy“, draws out a long list of policies which are designed to reduce immigration to Sweden to the minimum level allowed under EU law, with Åkesson saying he hopes to reduce asylum migration to “close to zero”. 

Quote

The party has plans to forcibly deport foreigners who have an “anti-social lifestyle”, and has a voluntary “reverse migration” policy which will give immigrants who have failed to assimilate in Sweden incentives to return home. 

Controversially, it wants to make it possible for those seeking asylum in Sweden to instead be sent to safe third countries, and it also wants to deny asylum to “those who create the conditions for their own asylum” after leaving their home countries, such as those who come out as homosexual, or convert to Christianity. 

Quote

As well as being an expression of romantic nationalism, the election film is also a visual expression of “ethnocracy”, as it presents a Sweden from whom all immigrants have been removed, with adorable ethnically Swedish toddlers and couples waving at the camera. 

Jens Rydgren, professor of sociology at Stockholm University, and an expert on the far-right, describes the Sweden Democrats as “an ethno-nationalist party”. 

“It makes a distinction between membership in the state (citizenship) and membership in the nation (national belonging),” he argues. “Membership in the nation is primarily based on ethnicity. The political goal is to make Sweden as ethnically homogeneous as possible.”

https://www.thelocal.se/20220909/explained-are-the-sweden-democrats-really-a-far-right-party/?

:/

[Dula Peep]

Seems about white