discussion Dueling COVID strategies sees China now exceed US in life expectancy

[montacelo]

30 minutes ago, ProudLBS said:

You can probably trace his IP back to a Chinese diplomatic mission 

Honestly 

[Jotham]

Both countries have been badly affected by COVID in different ways and using this as some way to one-up the U.S. and insinuate that the Chinese government's treatment of its civilians during COVID is somehow justifiable is extremely insensitive.

[Bang Up]

i'm fine with that number. 76 is long enough, and i don't want to live that long, anyways.

[BGKC]

I honestly assumed China always had a higher life expectancy. That it it was on par with western countries. 

[Communion]

9 minutes ago, Jotham said:

Both countries have been badly affected by COVID in different ways 

 

?

 

The need to obfuscate simple facts is weird. There are clear death counts for each country that reflect how their strategy worked in tackling COVID. The sharp decline in the US life expectancy is directly related to the way the US decided that a certain amount of COVID deaths were acceptable. 

 

You can try and rationalize these decisions of sacrifice by the US government of its citizens by arguing that life in America with COVID is better than life with China without COVID, but the number of people who died preventable deaths remain objective facts. 

 

Again, if you're embarrassed and angry that the US now has lower life expectancy, the US is who is to blame. Maybe we should change some parts of America's system!

Edited September 5, 2022 by Communion

[SmittenCake]

1 hour ago, ProudLBS said:

You can probably trace his IP back to a Chinese diplomatic mission 

[rp662]

The planet needs less population anyway. A lower birth rate and lower life expectancy; ugh, the US her mind. 

[Archetype]

I know they have a superior healthcare system that is affordable but it’s weird that it only gave them one extra year  of life expectancy when combined with massive lockdowns compared to a country with a crap healthcare system and never initiated a complete lockdown.  Not really something you’d want to point out.

[ZIVERT]

1 hour ago, Breathe On Moi said:

Being put in concentration camps so that you can die at 77 in China rather than die at 76 in the US? 

 

 

 

No that's only for the pesky indigenous ethnic minorities. The CCP's faves Han Chinese get to live until 77 while locked inside their apartments, with intermittent periods of outside time until the government decides it's time for all of them to go inside again~

[FightForTanas]

Congratulations one more year of Misery. 

[Communion]

22 minutes ago, Archetype said:

I know they have a superior healthcare system that is affordable 

Is this an admission that the for-profit healthcare of the US is somehow worse than that of a poorer country outside of the 1st world like China? If you think it's shocking that China with 1//10th the resources are somehow ahead of America, wait until you see how poorly the US fairs against empires of similar stages of development in the first world:

 

 

Again, these things are easily changeable if we can only just admit America's not perfect! 

Edited September 5, 2022 by Communion

[Katy V.!]

1 hour ago, Arthoe said:

Whataboutism at it's finest. The American Covid strategy failed, over 1,040,000 people died in the USA. You get nothing for shilling out to oligarchs that don't know who you are. 

The thread is literally comparing covid strategies and pretending that jailing and killing doctors and throwing people in concentration camps is "kinder" than the US/West disastrous strategy.

 

OP does seem to have a fetish for supporting crimes against humanity, so it's no surprise.

[Archetype]

22 minutes ago, Communion said:

Is this an admission that the for-profit healthcare of the US is somehow worse than that of a poorer country outside of the 1st world like China? If you think it's shocking that China with 1//10th the resources are somehow ahead of America, wait until you see how poorly the US fairs against empires of similar stages of development in the first world:

 

 

Again, these things are easily changeable if we can only just admit America's not perfect! 

This is literally a known fact, no one is acting like the US has even a remotely good healthcare system.  I'd rather go to Mexico for surgery than here.  The point is that China, a country with a superior healthcare system and government enforced city-wide lockdowns, has a life expectancy that is only one year more than a country with a **** healthcare system that many people can't afford and has citizens who ran around spreading it like wildfire.  That is not impressive in any way.

Edited September 5, 2022 by Archetype

[Communion]

20 minutes ago, Archetype said:

no one is acting like the US has even a remotely good healthcare system. 

This entire thread would say otherwise. I mean, you're literally trying to defend the US healthcare system by suggesting it's not dramatic that it produces a lower life expectancy than a country with a GDP per capita a fraction of its own.

 

GPD per capita, America: $69,287.50

GPD per capita, China: $12,556.30

 

How would one expect the latter to be able to produce better healthcare outcomes than the former?

 

Zero-COVID is the de-facto strategy of China *because* it is a country still in development and thus lacks the kind of healthcare infrastructure the West has the kind of wealth to build. Zero-COVID is favored by most Chinese because this "let it rip!" strategy would kill millions upon millions and destroy China's healthcare system. 

 

Thus the dramatic reality that America has the capacity to give everyone universal healthcare yet its healthcare system - and the way they choose to run it *along with* the way they chose to embrace COVID - has found it producing worse healthcare outcomes than nations within the developing world despite being THE global superpower. 

 

You're more emotionally invested in ensuring no one thinks China has done something impressive - which no one has said - that you can't even recognize the horror in just how many innocent people the richest country in the world has sacrificed to needless deaths that were preventable in the count of hundreds of thousands. Western chauvinists who only want to use America for its military are the greatest threat to working-class Americans. 

Edited September 5, 2022 by Communion

[ClashAndBurn]

I'd see this as less a positive for China (which certainly has its problems both with its handling of the pandemic and completely freezing global supply chains as a result) and more a mark against America for its undeniably disastrous embarrassment of a "response." America is slowly earning the status of a declining empire and a failed state. But seeing how more than a million Americans were sacrificed for the sake of individualism and "freedom," I guess this forum's users largely see it as a good thing because scoring points over the authoritarian state that keeps human beings in concentration camps (even though we absolutely have done the same in keeping migrants in cages since the Obama presidency, but liberals still refuse to accept responsibility for their side's participation in that ) is somehow more important to them than improving our own morally bankrupt society.

[Harrier]

Your apologia continues to be a mess

I have a friend who was not allowed to go back to China to see his DYING mother, missed her death, and was only able to attend her funeral virtually. All for a virus that is mostly harmless to vaccinated people under 60, and even relatively low risk to vaccinated older folks. He was (and still is) absolutely crushed about it.

 

Lockdowns & restrictions made sense in the world of no vaccines & earlier, more virulent variants. China continuing this strategy, destroying the lives of its citizens and its diaspora endlessly is not only disgusting, it's also wildly irrational.

 

But keep defending the CCP. If that's the world you want to live in, move there.

[HeWolf]

Containing a virus with a 0,01 lethality (or less if we knew the real numbers of asymptomatic spread) has virtually ZERO effect on life expectancy 

[Horizon Flame]

The CCP is nothing but propaganda. What is really happening is never reported. 

[Archetype]

 

3 hours ago, Communion said:

This entire thread would say otherwise. I mean, you're literally trying to defend the US healthcare system by suggesting it's not dramatic that it produces a lower life expectancy than a country with a GDP per capita a fraction of its own.

 

GPD per capita, America: $69,287.50

GPD per capita, China: $12,556.30

 

How would one expect the latter to be able to produce better healthcare outcomes than the former?

 

Zero-COVID is the de-facto strategy of China *because* it is a country still in development and thus lacks the kind of healthcare infrastructure the West has the kind of wealth to build. 

Nope, didn't do that, not doing that, and we've already agreed that China has a better healthcare system.  There are also dozens of countries with less GDP per capita than the US with higher avg life expectancies and better healthcare systems.  Also, while I would assume rural regions of China lack proper healthcare infrastructure, I would argue the US isn't much different.  On the other hand, most Chinese citizens live in urban areas with affordable world-class healthcare, so while parts of the country are still not considered "first world", China definitely has a first world healthcare system for those who are most likely to catch COVID (dense urban populations) unlike anywhere in the US.

3 hours ago, Communion said:

Zero-COVID is favored by most Chinese

Did the Chinese govt survey its billions of citizens and ask for their opinion?  Bc I recall residents in Shanghai and other major cities being vocally upset and unhappy with the Zero COVID policy, an extreme rarity for a population that typically does not voice opposition against their govt.

 

3 hours ago, Communion said:

You're more emotionally invested in ensuring no one thinks China has done something impressive - which no one has said

I have literally said their healthcare system is impressive idk how many times by now, and a higher life expectancy is always great by all means.  I'm also not emotionally invested in any of this, not sure why you would think I would be.  I don't think it's impressive to be scraping the Top 50 along with the US.

3 hours ago, Communion said:

Thus the dramatic reality that America has the capacity to give everyone universal healthcare yet its healthcare system - and the way they choose to run it *along with* the way they chose to embrace COVID - has found it producing worse healthcare outcomes than nations within the developing world despite being THE global superpower. 

4 hours ago, Communion said:

that you can't even recognize the horror in just how many innocent people the richest country in the world has sacrificed to needless deaths that were preventable in the count of hundreds of thousands.

It's been recognized and is sad, but we cannot change the past, nor can you change the opinions of an overwhelming majority of Americans of all political affiliations who would never support Zero COVID-style lockdowns.  Universal healthcare is a possibility, but lockdowns would never pass unless the virus was far worse.  You are arguing for a complete 180 in American thought and culture, it's not going to happen. 

[Cloudy]

The way Communion does more promo for China than all the pop girls' teams combined

 

I mean it shouldn't come off as a surprise that the USA, a country notorious for having one of the worst healthcare systems and a big obesity problem, is below China in life expectancy like

[Communion]

6 hours ago, Archetype said:

 

Nope, didn't do that, not doing that, and we've already agreed that China has a better healthcare system. 

You're literally downplaying the atrocities of US heallthcare by again trying to flatten the difference in resources between China and America. 

 

Is China's system bigger? No

Is China's system weather? No

Yet somehow the Chinese system is more efficient based on the data available. The results are undeniably shocking and dramatic. 

 

How do countries like China and Cuba with so little produce better healthcare outcomes than the richest country in the world? 

 

That these horrific realities occur and chauvinists can only interpret it as an avenue not to extend support to Americans living under a deadly regime but find some way to make poor Americans dying into "well be happy you're dying in America and not alive in China" shows how many users want poor Americans to die. 

[Communion]

8 hours ago, Harrier said:

 a virus that is mostly harmless

1 million American funerals and the biggest drop in life expectancy in decades would say otherwise. 

[Headlock]

14 hours ago, Bang Up said:

i'm fine with that number. 76 is long enough, and i don't want to live that long, anyways.

This post is dystopian jfc 

[Bethenny Frankel]

why am I not shocked at the op? 

[wastedpotential]

7 hours ago, Cloudy said:

I mean it shouldn't come off as a surprise that the USA, a country notorious for having one of the worst healthcare systems and a big obesity problem, is below China in life expectancy like

Not to mention the recent history of powerful Pharma companies intentionally getting as many people addicted to opioids as possible which has done wonders for lowering the life expectancy numbers