discussion Poland asks Germany for reparations

[John Slayne]

34 minutes ago, stevyy said:

Most articles say that Poland or the current government is only doing this NOW in order to win the next general election.

that was my first thought, the government is probably trying to appease the nationalist Poles and stir up anti-EU sentiment by pointing fingers in order to secure a GE win

[Kamil24]

On 9/2/2022 at 8:40 AM, Harrier said:

Maybe when Poland stops acting like a petulant child & acknowledges its own role in the holocaust 

[Jan]

Germany better PAY UP them Oiros!

 

[Jan]

On 9/2/2022 at 11:27 PM, EtherealCat said:

how much free money have they got from the eu over the years? shouldnt that count? 

How much revenue have German companies got by getting free access to the Polish market on the same basis as underdeveloped Polish companies after Poland joined the EU? Shouldn't that count?

[greeneyedsoul]

They should! Karma for jailing Polish queen Schwesta Ewa.

[TomTom]

10 hours ago, Jan said:

How much revenue have German companies got by getting free access to the Polish market on the same basis as underdeveloped Polish companies after Poland joined the EU? Shouldn't that count?

You mean the free access Poland asked for when it wanted to become a member of the EU?

[Jan]

1 hour ago, TomTom2288 said:

You mean the free access Poland asked for when it wanted to become a member of the EU?

That's obvious, but I absolutely loathe when ignorant Westerners say that the 2004 and 2007 enlargement countries are getting money for free, because truth is they're not. Billions of Euros are funnelled to Germany, France and other Western countries through business. What Poland and other Central and Eastern European countries get from the EU is scraps.

Edited September 6, 2022 by Jan

[Bosque]

7 hours ago, Jan said:

That's obvious, but I absolutely loathe when ignorant Westerners say that the 2004 and 2007 enlargement countries are getting money for free, because truth is they're not. Billions of Euros are funnelled to Germany, France and other Western countries through business. What Poland and other Central and Eastern European countries get from the EU is scraps.

Of course only Germany and France benefit from free trade and business in the EU, and Poland and Hungary do not benefit whatsoever from the fact that 80% of their export value is made in the EU. 

[Kali.]

I'm sorry, but I can't stand Germany and them always trying to minimize their role in the holocaust and shift the blame onto Poland. YOU invaded us. YOUR leader killed millions around Europe.

 

Poland was the only country in Europe where punishment for hiding Jews was having you + your entire family killed and yet, Poland is the country with the highest number of people who helped them. 

 

 

 

[VicHugo]

The Polish are so funny, all good things that they have today was given to them by the German, French and British. But they chose to love the Americans. 

[TomTom]

On 9/10/2022 at 3:51 AM, Kali. said:

I'm sorry, but I can't stand Germany and them always trying to minimize their role in the holocaust and shift the blame onto Poland. YOU invaded us. YOUR leader killed millions around Europe.

No one is "shifting blame onto Poland", that's complete nonsense and it's quite outrageous for you to say something like that.

 

The people who did these things are almost all dead and and you can not claim reparations over 70 years later just because you have an election coming up and your ruling party is struggling in the polls.

 

Poland simply is not entitled to reparations for multiple reasons that have been discussed in this thread.

 

There is a report from the independent Scientific Service of the German parliament that concluded Poland has no legal right to reparations (contrary to Greece), explicitly debunking the Polish argument that Poland not being a free country in 1953 somehow entitles them to reparations  and noting that "even parts of the Polish law community view the 1953 waiver as binding" (page 10).

 

Furthermore, I've never seen ANY German law expert who saw a legitimate legal basis in the Polish reparation claims.

[DUA LIPA]

13 minutes ago, TomTom2288 said:

No one is "shifting blame onto Poland", that's complete nonsense and it's quite outrageous for you to say something like that.

 

The people who did these things are almost all dead and and you can not claim reparations over 70 years later just because you have an election coming up and your ruling party is struggling in the polls.

 

Poland simply is not entitled to reparations for multiple reasons that have been discussed in this thread.

 

There is a report from the independent Scientific Service of the German parliament that concluded Poland has no legal right to reparations (contrary to Greece), explicitly debunking the Polish argument that Poland not being a free country in 1953 somehow entitles them to reparations  and noting that "even parts of the Polish law community view the 1953 waiver as binding" (page 10).

 

Furthermore, I've never seen ANY German law expert who saw a legitimate legal basis in the Polish reparation claims.

I've also never seen any serious polish law expert who takes these claims pis is throwing around serious, yet here you are responding to a post that was  about something else entirely 

 

[Kamil24]

1 hour ago, TomTom2288 said:

No one is "shifting blame onto Poland", that's complete nonsense and it's quite outrageous for you to say something like that.

 

The people who did these things are almost all dead and and you can not claim reparations over 70 years later just because you have an election coming up and your ruling party is struggling in the polls.

 

Poland simply is not entitled to reparations for multiple reasons that have been discussed in this thread.

 

There is a report from the independent Scientific Service of the German parliament that concluded Poland has no legal right to reparations (contrary to Greece), explicitly debunking the Polish argument that Poland not being a free country in 1953 somehow entitles them to reparations  and noting that "even parts of the Polish law community view the 1953 waiver as binding" (page 10).

 

Furthermore, I've never seen ANY German law expert who saw a legitimate legal basis in the Polish reparation claims.

Poland was not a free country in 1953 though.

 

Either way, why is everyone on ATRL expecting the UK to pay reparations to everyone they invaded, but when Poland asks, they are not allowed to ask. Such a double standard.

[TomTom]

14 minutes ago, Kamil24 said:

Poland was not a free country in 1953 though.

 

That is irrelevant to the question whether Poland is legally entitled to reparations or not.

 

14 minutes ago, Kamil24 said:

but when Poland asks, they are not allowed to ask

They can ask for whatever they want, that doesn't change the fact that it is largely undisputed that Poland has no legal basis to claim reparations.

 

PiS knows that very well, hence why they never officially came up with a formal demand. They just say they should receive reparations, but then don't follow up on it with anything concrete.

[stevyy]

On 9/12/2022 at 10:00 PM, Kamil24 said:

Poland was not a free country in 1953 though.

 

Either way, why is everyone on ATRL expecting the UK to pay reparations to everyone they invaded, but when Poland asks, they are not allowed to ask. Such a double standard.

Which means that they could not accept Eastern German territories. If we'd go back to the aftermath of WW2, we'd have to re-draw 99% of all borders in present-day Europe. 

 

I also do not think that the dissolution of the HRE was legal. 

 

The 30 years war is also largely regarded as a (first) world war and Sweden better pay up. 

 

And while we're at it... Constantinopel should be returned to Greece or better said... Italy. However, I believe that Tunis deserves reparations from Italy as well for the destruction of Carthage. 

 

Or we should just return to before the year 800. I believe that France has legal claims for the entirety of present-day Germany. 

[GreatCoolBright]

Wasn’t Germany supporting development of modern infrastructure in Poland for years tho?

[Kamil24]

5 hours ago, stevyy said:

Which means that they could not accept Eastern German territories. If we'd go back to the aftermath of WW2, we'd have to re-draw 99% of all borders in present-day Europe. 

 

I also do not think that the dissolution of the HRE was legal. 

 

The 30 years war is also largely regarded as a (first) world war and Sweden better pay up. 

 

And while we're at it... Constantinopel should be returned to Greece or better said... Italy. However, I believe that Tunis deserves reparations from Italy as well for the destruction of Carthage. 

 

Or we should just return to before the year 800. I believe that France has legal claims for the entirety of present-day Germany. 

Those "Eastern Germany" territories were taken forcefully from Poland during the partition of Poland in 1795 - where Polish land was split between Germany, Russia and Austria and erased from the map. We didn't even get back all the land we had after the wars.

[stevyy]

3 hours ago, Kamil24 said:

Those "Eastern Germany" territories were taken forcefully from Poland during the partition of Poland in 1795 - where Polish land was split between Germany, Russia and Austria and erased from the map. We didn't even get back all the land we had after the wars.

in 1795 there was no such country as "Germany". Germany as a nation state came to be in 1871 and was later dissolved in 1945 by international law.