Wrecked Posted March 14, 2023 Posted March 14, 2023 Things the game did better: - Felt like more of a journey. Because you’re playing for around 15 hours you really feel like it took a long time to get to the hospital and by that time, you really empathise more with Joel when he makes his decision to eliminate the Fireflies to save Ellie. - Bill’s Town was better than the suburb he lived in during the show. It was a lot bigger than what we got in the show and it was one of my favourite parts of the game. - Encounters with the infected and how threatening they were. We had particular encounters in a high school, hotel basement, during the section with David and just before the hospital that were so intense and well done. - The storyline with David felt a lot longer in the game and because you have to fight alongside him during a battle with the infected, it made Ellie and the player trust him more, so the whole reveal about him being an absolute monster was more effective. - Spores! I understand why they removed them for the show, but they were such a cool and unique part of the world and it just amped up how deadly / contagious this infection was. - You spent more time with characters so their deaths hit even harder. You’re with Tess, Sam and Henry in the game a lot longer than you are in the show. Things the show did better: - Bill and Frank’s storyline. - Allowing you to spend the day with Sarah and making the audience fall in love with her character before tragedy strikes. - Adding more depth to Joel’s character such as him suffering from PTSD, panic attacks and revealing that he tried to commit suicide following Sarah’s death. - Taking scenes that weren’t emotional in the game and making them emotional in the live action. Such as the flashback Joel had of Sarah during episode 1 and Joels reunion with Tommy. - Adding new dialogue that added to the existing story such as Joel implying that his metaphorical wounds started to heal because of his relationship with Ellie. - Bringing Anna into the show and explaining why Ellie is immune. - The cold openings and showing how the infection spread so fast. - Bella’s acting after Henry shoot’s himself was stronger than it was in the game. The gasp she lets out was haunting. - Bella’s acting during the final showdown with David was better than it was in the game. The shrieks of pure terror she was letting out whilst he was on top of her were chilling and it makes the game counterpart feel a bit empty now in comparison.
Helios Posted March 14, 2023 Posted March 14, 2023 46 minutes ago, Wrecked said: Remember to put things regarding Part II in spoiler tags as not everybody in this thread has played the games. Hide contents Bella isn’t going to have some sort of growth spurt before they start filming, but I don’t think she has to be the same height as Abby and if anything, it will make the Ellie and Abby stuff more intense as Abby is supposed to be more intimidating in physique than Ellie, so if she’s not going to be as buff, as least she’ll be taller than Ellie. Part II being adapted is going to be wild. I can’t wait for the reactions. Same but im ready to defend the show just like I defended the game.
Liafen Posted March 14, 2023 Posted March 14, 2023 7 minutes ago, Phantom said: Also. I feel like this is a good discussion to be had (and one I VASTLY prefer to "why are game adaptations so shitty?") so getting here is a miracle in itself, but... There isn't a series in the world, which, even when adapted excellently for TV (much less movie), would trump the characterization or impact of gaming. There is always SO much going on in long narrative driven games, that frankly, trying to catch up to it is a lost cause. The flavour text. The contextual dialogue. The dialogue trees. The list goes on... I see a lot of people upset about Tess and how quickly that panned out, but well, they simply did not have a choice. My point is even if you give them 4 more episodes - 5, 6, whatever - it'll come up short. Hell the fact they were able to compress David AND Riley into one episode each itself is like, a feat of endurance Ultimately yes, its a near-impossible task, especially if you go in as a player with a pre-existing experience. I understand that they have to part ways from the game due to the different media format at hand and it couldn't work as a copy-paste. But, while this show has its fair share of misses, it also gives perfect examples on how to do it well. Episode one, three and eight were perfect or almost-perfect translations (or deviations) to screen. The winter area itself, which is a huge chunk of the game, worked impossibly well in the TV format - because the direction, the writing, the acting, everything all fell into place. I'd add a couple more minutes to the diner sequence and the tension of Joel reaching Ellie is missing (and the start was a missed mark) but that episode in itself was amazing. Obviously I felt more impacted by the game in that area as well but I was not let down by the show as I was when I watched the second episode or the pointless new character, Kathleen in Kansas. (What was the point including her instead of spending more time where those precious moments could've mattered, I still don't know)
Liafen Posted March 14, 2023 Posted March 14, 2023 5 minutes ago, Wrecked said: Things the game did better: Things the show did better: Agreed on almost all parts except for maybe the Winter episode. I liked the overall arc and the direction, a perfect story contained in one episode, but to me the ending was more shocking/traumatizing in the game.
Liafen Posted March 14, 2023 Posted March 14, 2023 Also sorry for triple posting but the reveal of the reason of Ellie's immunity is HUGE from a lore standpoint.
Specter Posted March 14, 2023 Posted March 14, 2023 9 minutes ago, Wrecked said: - Bella’s acting after Henry shoot’s himself was stronger than it was in the game. The gasp she lets out was haunting.
Hephaestus Posted March 14, 2023 Author Posted March 14, 2023 3 minutes ago, Liafen said: Yeah, that too - but what irks me the most about the infected is their almost non-existence. And the Stranger Thingsification of the 'hive mind'. Spores were also greatly missed, I understand their reasoning of how it works as an in-game environment but not in the real world (though I haven't thought about it as an issue, not even once when I played the games). It really added to the claustrophobic, tense feeling of the world which ultimately got lost in translation. Apart from these things, maybe Joel's injury is one of the letdowns. That moment was such a masterfully written and directed sequence in the game, yet the whole university bit is maybe just 4 minutes in the show just to service the cliffhanger that worked so much better in its original form. Starting the next ep showing Joel alive was a mistake aswell. Ugh the panic and horror of you watching a bunny get killed and then chasing a deer without knowing the result of that injury... Man, they really missed the mark on the most tense moments of the game (including the hospital sequence). Again, agreed on everything. The weird thing is they went for practical VFX instead of CGI for the most part with the infected so it's probably not even a cost thing, I imagine they really wanted to focus on the human aspect of the whole thing. And yeah, the hive mind was also another aspect that made this infection feel so watered down and reductive to me because it's something we've already seen a million times. Speaking of Stranger Things, I don't know if you noticed but in E7 that shot when they first reveal the infected in the mall looked like something straight out of that show, I was so disappointed. Ultimately, I feel like they've done such a bad job with the removal of the spores as an agent of contagion because they really tried to remove them altogether (for whatever reason) but had to resort to them to justify how quickly the infection spread through flour (and sugar?). Everything after E5 (with the obvious exception of E7) has been very rushed and it impacted the story to various degrees. The University section in particular was cut down to a point it barely makes any sense in the context of the TV show, they could've been literally anywhere else and it wouldn't have made any difference. It's such a shame because, as you said, it's one of the most impactful sequences in the entire game and Joel's injury truly looked like something he couldn't get through, which ultimately added to the tension and drama of that whole chapter. Hospital also got a similar treatment unfortunately, and while they at least showed some action there, we missed the build up to the moment when Joel snaps and makes a carnage. Hell, even the scene where he kills the doctor and retrieves Ellie felt uneventful considering how quickly everything happened.
Hephaestus Posted March 14, 2023 Author Posted March 14, 2023 29 minutes ago, Phantom said: Also. I feel like this is a good discussion to be had (and one I VASTLY prefer to "why are game adaptations so shitty?") so getting here is a miracle in itself, but... There isn't a series in the world, which, even when adapted excellently for TV (much less movie), would trump the characterization or impact of gaming. There is always SO much going on in long narrative driven games, that frankly, trying to catch up to it is a lost cause. The flavour text. The contextual dialogue. The dialogue trees. The list goes on... I see a lot of people upset about Tess and how quickly that panned out, but well, they simply did not have a choice. My point is even if you give them 4 more episodes - 5, 6, whatever - it'll come up short. Hell the fact they were able to compress David AND Riley into one episode each itself is like, a feat of endurance But this is also very true and the reason why I don't really blame them too much. They did an incredible job with the time and resources they had so I can't really be mad. Not only they managed to adapt a game to a different media without making a fool of themselves and completely ruining the IP's legacy, but they did it successfully too and for that I will always applaud them!
Wrecked Posted March 14, 2023 Posted March 14, 2023 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Liafen said: Agreed on almost all parts except for maybe the Winter episode. I liked the overall arc and the direction, a perfect story contained in one episode, but to me the ending was more shocking/traumatizing in the game. I just love how in the game you felt more conflicted as a player because it wasn’t that obvious whether or not he was a bad guy. Especially when you had to fight alongside him, whereas in the show he always seemed like a creep and I never once felt like he could be a decent guy. I think that was one of the storylines that could have benefited from being split into two episodes as they could have spent the first hour building up his character and having Ellie and him fight against the swarm of infected and then spent the second hour revealing the cannibalism, his true nature and the final showdown. Edited March 14, 2023 by Wrecked
Hephaestus Posted March 14, 2023 Author Posted March 14, 2023 13 minutes ago, Liafen said: Also sorry for triple posting but the reveal of the reason of Ellie's immunity is HUGE from a lore standpoint. Yes, absolutely! I was so happy they finally made it official and the fact they used videogame's Ellie to do it made it even more impactful to me.
Liafen Posted March 14, 2023 Posted March 14, 2023 Just now, Hephaestus said: Again, agreed on everything. The weird thing is they went for practical VFX instead of CGI for the most part with the infected so it's probably not even a cost thing, I imagine they really wanted to focus on the human aspect of the whole thing. And yeah, the hive mind was also another aspect that made this infection feel so watered down and reductive to me because it's something we've already seen a million times. Speaking of Stranger Things, I don't know if you noticed but in E7 that shot when they first reveal the infected in the mall looked like something straight out of that show, I was so disappointed. Ultimately, I feel like they've done such a bad job with the removal of the spores as an agent of contagion because they really tried to remove them altogether (for whatever reason) but had to resort to them to justify how quickly the infection spread through flour (and sugar?). Everything after E5 (with the obvious exception of E7) has been very rushed and it impacted the story to various degrees. The University section in particular was cut down to a point it barely makes any sense in the context of the TV show, they could've been literally anywhere else and it wouldn't have made any difference. It's such a shame because, as you said, it's one of the most impactful sequences in the entire game and Joel's injury truly looked like something he couldn't get through, which ultimately added to the tension and drama of that whole chapter. Hospital also got a similar treatment unfortunately, and while they at least showed some action there, we missed the build up to the moment when Joel snaps and makes a carnage. Hell, even the scene where he kills the doctor and retrieves Ellie felt uneventful considering how quickly everything happened. Oh god, yes, that infected mall reveal. That's what I thought aswell & I almost laughed out loud. Left Behind is another prime example where the scale of the threat and the urgency of the plot just did not make it to the show. And agreed on everything else you mentioned. The hospital, man, that was a hard-to-get-through part. Again, the sense of urgency there almost made me throw up... I know it is hard to translate since you cannot actually make the viewer go through it as you can make a player play through it, but to reduce it to a montage was a travesty. Why not coreograph a good, 10-minute sequence then? I don't understand why they wanted to rush through some parts just like that. 5 minutes ago, Wrecked said: I just love how in the game you felt more conflicted as a player because it wasn’t that obvious whether or not he was a bad guy. Especially when you had to fight alongside him, whereas in the show he always seemed like a creep and I never once felt like he could be a decent guy. I think that was one of the storylines that could have benefited from being split into two episodes as they could have spent the first hour building up his character and having Ellie and him fight against the swarm of infected and then spent the second hour revealing the cannibalism, his true nature and the final showdown. Hm yeah, a good point. The slowburn from good to evil was a great example in the game. But maybe they decided to omit that not only due to time constraints but also because - PART II SPOILERS HERE Spoiler they use the same-y choice of narrative for introducing Abby? You don't suspect her at all when you work with her as Joel fighting the infected, and then BAM. Maybe they did not want to play the same card twice.
Liafen Posted March 14, 2023 Posted March 14, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Hephaestus said: Yes, absolutely! I was so happy they finally made it official and the fact they used videogame's Ellie to do it made it even more impactful to me. Ashley Johnson giving birth to Ellie ten years after she gave birth to the character was so symbolic and moving. And on top of that, her acting is very much deserving of an Emmy for Outstanding Guest Appearance by an Actress. Edit: Ok I'll edit this before triple-posting again So this addition to the lore could very much impact the direction they're taking PART III in. Because it basically means that 1) the development of the immunity seems to be circumstantial so that it can be reproduced involving another pregnant woman and her baby, 2) it seems that it can be inherited aswell. Edited March 14, 2023 by Liafen
Wrecked Posted March 14, 2023 Posted March 14, 2023 I’ve always been against the idea of TLOU being a show or a movie as it just felt so unnecessary to me so the fact I not only loved the show but also have things I think they did better is WILD to me. 6 minutes ago, Liafen said: Hm yeah, a good point. The slowburn from good to evil was a great example in the game. But maybe they decided to omit that not only due to time constraints but also because - PART II SPOILERS HERE Reveal hidden contents they use the same-y choice of narrative for introducing Abby? You don't suspect her at all when you work with her as Joel fighting the infected, and then BAM. Maybe they did not want to play the same card twice. PART II SPOILERS Spoiler That could be the reason, but Abby is a strange case because depending on how you look at the story she goes from hero to villain to hero, so her storyline feels different to David who has no sense of redemption after revealing himself to be a rapist. Abby actually became one of my favourite characters in Part II. Her and Lev virtually become Joel and Ellie from Part I.
Wrecked Posted March 14, 2023 Posted March 14, 2023 @Liafen Something else I meant to add about David… ALSO CONTAINS PART II SPOILERS Spoiler I feel like unlike Abby, he does initially come off as creepy in the game and when you find out that Joel has killed some of his men you instantly fear for Ellie’s safety, so when you’re forced to fight alongside him and see that he hasn’t tried to screw you over you doubt your initial reaction, that’s why it being revealed that he is a scum bag after all felt more effective because it gives you that whole “I knew I shouldn’t have trusted him!” instant regret. I just think they could have toyed with the audience longer than they did and splitting into two parts would have been the perfect way to do this and it would have also gave them enough time to include the shootout with the clickers, runners and bloater! Imagine part one ending with Ellie being captured and the cannibal reveal and then part two following Joel’s journey to find her and ending with Ellie saving herself and their reunion.
Liafen Posted March 14, 2023 Posted March 14, 2023 5 minutes ago, Wrecked said: I’ve always been against the idea of TLOU being a show or a movie as it just felt so unnecessary to me so the fact I not only loved the show but also have things I think they did better is WILD to me. PART II SPOILERS Hide contents That could be the reason, but Abby is a strange case because depending on how you look at the story she goes from hero to villain to hero, so her storyline feels different to David who has no sense of redemption after revealing himself to be a rapist. Abby actually became one of my favourite characters in Part II. Her and Lev virtually become Joel and Ellie from Part I. Haha this so much! The fact that we've got parts that were better is just mindblowing. Maybe that's why I felt a bit let down by the season as a whole since there were parts where the show not even matched, but improved on the source material. As for PART II, Spoiler yes, her arc is very different from David's, but the introduction nonetheless could be seen as literally the same. So maybe that was a wiser decision.
Liafen Posted March 14, 2023 Posted March 14, 2023 Just now, Wrecked said: @Liafen Something else I meant to add about David… ALSO CONTAINS PART II SPOILERS Hide contents I feel like unlike Abby, he does initially come off as creepy in the game and when you find out that Joel has killed some of his men you instantly fear for Ellie’s safety, so when you’re forced to fight alongside him and see that he hasn’t tried to screw you over you doubt your initial reaction, that’s why it being revealed that he is a scum bag after all felt more effective because it gives you that whole “I knew I shouldn’t have trusted him!” instant regret. I just think they could have toyed with the audience longer than they did and splitting into two parts would have been the perfect way to do this and it would have also gave them enough time to include the shootout with the clickers, runners and bloater! Imagine part one ending with Ellie being captured and the cannibal reveal and then part two following Joel’s journey to find her and ending with Ellie saving herself and their reunion. Yeah I feel like what you pitch could work well. But in the grand scheme of things, I think the episode worked very well on its own - and I guess besides the point I raised on Part II, there were also budgetary and runtime constraints. Such a shame because the winter section was the most believable/gorgeous one from the point of Production Design and Cinematography aswell.
Wrecked Posted March 14, 2023 Posted March 14, 2023 Just now, Liafen said: Yeah I feel like what you pitch could work well. But in the grand scheme of things, I think the episode worked very well on its own - and I guess besides the point I raised on Part II, there were also budgetary and runtime constraints. Such a shame because the winter section was the most believable/gorgeous one from the point of Production Design and Cinematography aswell. I still think they did a great job at adapting that portion of the game, because I prefer Bella’s acting during the final portion, but overall I think the game handled that arc better. But ahead of the premiere, I expected everything from the game to be better, so the fact I think the show made some things superior is a great sign. Does anybody have a guess of when Part III could be out? There was a 7 year gap between Part I and Part II, so if we follow a similar release schedule then Part III would be 2027. I would just love for the show to be still airing whilst Part III hits the shelves so that we can also have that adapted. I think S2 will air in early 2025 and S3 will air in early 2027.
Liafen Posted March 14, 2023 Posted March 14, 2023 4 minutes ago, Wrecked said: I still think they did a great job at adapting that portion of the game, because I prefer Bella’s acting during the final portion, but overall I think the game handled that arc better. But ahead of the premiere, I expected everything from the game to be better, so the fact I think the show made some things superior is a great sign. Does anybody have a guess of when Part III could be out? There was a 7 year gap between Part I and Part II, so if we follow a similar release schedule then Part III would be 2027. I would just love for the show to be still airing whilst Part III hits the shelves so that we can also have that adapted. I think S2 will air in early 2025 and S3 will air in early 2027. What I hate about this becoming an HBO sensation is that it really puts a constraint on Druckmann's time. I have a feeling the show is the reason that Factions MP is being 'delayed', so developing another Part on the scale of (or even surpassing) Part II will take much more time.
Hephaestus Posted March 14, 2023 Author Posted March 14, 2023 34 minutes ago, Liafen said: Ashley Johnson giving birth to Ellie ten years after she gave birth to the character was so symbolic and moving. And on top of that, her acting is very much deserving of an Emmy for Outstanding Guest Appearance by an Actress. Edit: Ok I'll edit this before triple-posting again So this addition to the lore could very much impact the direction they're taking PART III in. Because it basically means that 1) the development of the immunity seems to be circumstantial so that it can be reproduced involving another pregnant woman and her baby, 2) it seems that it can be inherited aswell. Yes, exactly! It was truly poetic, one of the things I'll always remember about this adaptation! And yeah, the implications of this lore wise are huge. First of all, they finally have to address this in the games to be on par with the TV series, then I wonder how this revelation will impact the story moving forward. If it's indeed something that can be replicated (and it looks like it is), chances are that they'll indeed find a cure at some point. 10 minutes ago, Wrecked said: I would just love for the show to be still airing whilst Part III hits the shelves so that we can also have that adapted. I think S2 will air in early 2025 and S3 will air in early 2027. 6 minutes ago, Liafen said: What I hate about this becoming an HBO sensation is that it really puts a constraint on Druckmann's time. I have a feeling the show is the reason that Factions MP is being 'delayed', so developing another Part on the scale of (or even surpassing) Part II will take much more time. 2027 at the earliest, absolutely. Factions, which has definitely been delayed to get more people on board because of the TV show hype, has to come out first then they can start working on Part III (since they're already also developing a new IP, allegedly). I believe they'll release Part III not long after they finish telling Part II's story in the TV show though.
eclipsed Posted March 14, 2023 Posted March 14, 2023 ashley was so good my god. that opening had so much tension. do i think this was as good as the game? no but all in all this was really great. i'm happy it wasn't a shitty adaption. one thing i can't remember if it was apart of the game or not but the conversation between ellie and joel at the end of episode 9 where he kept comparing her to sarah, it feels like ellie is just now his replacement for sarah? which idk that i felt that way in the game. i just thought the bond they shared brought him back to life ofc i knew there was layers because of sarah but it feels like there's an added layer here and im not sure how to feel. joel feels unstable and it kind of colours their entire relationship in a different way for me
Liafen Posted March 14, 2023 Posted March 14, 2023 4 minutes ago, eclipsed said: ashley was so good my god. that opening had so much tension. do i think this was as good as the game? no but all in all this was really great. i'm happy it wasn't a shitty adaption. one thing i can't remember if it was apart of the game or not but the conversation between ellie and joel at the end of episode 9 where he kept comparing her to sarah, it feels like ellie is just now his replacement for sarah? which idk that i felt that way in the game. i just thought the bond they shared brought him back to life ofc i knew there was layers because of sarah but it feels like there's an added layer here and im not sure how to feel. joel feels unstable and it kind of colours their entire relationship in a different way for me They definitely elaborated on that part of the conversation in the woods. It was in the game but not that on the nose like the show's, with the healing wound convo aswell. Not getting the Sarah-replacement vibes, but I guess they really needed to emphasize from a narrative standpoint, that the viewer does understand why Joel did what he did. Whereas you feel the reason of his decision in the game.
fridayteenage Posted March 14, 2023 Posted March 14, 2023 1.04 million tv viewers for finale. Almost half of the numbers for the millionth finale for walking dead. a bunch of ppl watched at least a minute of it on streaming tho
Wrecked Posted March 14, 2023 Posted March 14, 2023 (edited) 41 minutes ago, fridayteenage said: 1.04 million tv viewers for finale. Almost half of the numbers for the millionth finale for walking dead. a bunch of ppl watched at least a minute of it on streaming tho 8.2 million people watched it overall though, so I don’t know why you’re trying to downplay the viewers it gets on HBO Max when that is where the bulk of the audience are watching it? If you seriously think HBO renewed this show (when it’s one of, if not the most expensive show they’ve ever produced) because people are only watching a minute and turning it off you are beyond wrong. Edited March 14, 2023 by Wrecked
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