discussion Macron warns French people to prepare for a miserable winter

[Leptine]

On 8/21/2022 at 6:40 PM, Bloodflowers. said:

People living in villages who use wood to keep themselves warm kinda WON, let me move to my aunt's house this winter real quick

Not really sis, the price of wood is skyrocketing as well, people-companies already started going to forests to get it in big stocks, scams of several kinds also started, this will affect also the people living in small villages eventually.

[Revolution]

they'll be fine.

[Gov Hooka]

Lol, I mean this is what happens when you allow the US to dictate your foreign policy for you... USians will be fine and Europeans will pay the price of their countries meddling in the Russia Ukraine war... 

[Gov Hooka]

On 8/21/2022 at 3:58 PM, Illuminati said:

Those sanctions were reactionary, it wasn't like we woke up and decided to mess with Russia. It's about limiting economic reliance on a terrorist state. It was about realizing that our money was directly funding genocide.

I don't know why people lack integrity regarding this topic, Russia has just been threatening to starve half of the world and ATRLers just roll their eyes at Ukraine. Would you support a company or an artist who did something equally bad? Governments and activists demand companies to be more ethical with how they extract and dispose of their resources and issue fines if they choose not to comply.

These are poor examples because there's hardly even a reasonable equivalent to the scale of this. People really just seem to disconnect themselves from long term thinking in regards to politics, this is why far right populists always draw massive crowds.

You western countries are terrorist states actively committing genocide and ecocide in several developing nations around the world. Save the hysterics. Imagine believing this crap you wrote when France was bombing weddings in Mali last year and is now actively invading Yemen for gas, where the US/EU is financially and militarily backing a Saudi-led genocide. The hypocrisy is so blatant. And yes this will eventually cause far right parties to win all over Europe. In France i expect more will flock to LePen than they will Melenchon.

Edited August 23, 2022 by Gov Hooka

[Bloodflowers.]

2 hours ago, Leptine said:

Not really sis, the price of wood is skyrocketing as well, people-companies already started going to forests to get it in big stocks, scams of several kinds also started, this will affect also the people living in small villages eventually.

 

My aunt has her own land property in the forest so she's good! But people might start stealing trees illegally and from other people's propirties though!

 

[Illuminati]

2 hours ago, Gov Hooka said:

You western countries are terrorist states actively committing genocide and ecocide in several developing nations around the world. Save the hysterics. Imagine believing this crap you wrote when France was bombing weddings in Mali last year and is now actively invading Yemen for gas, where the US/EU is financially and militarily backing a Saudi-led genocide. The hypocrisy is so blatant. And yes this will eventually cause far right parties to win all over Europe. In France i expect more will flock to LePen than they will Melenchon.

Who was Ukraine invading though? Donbas was a peaceful region up until Russia invaded it in 2014. For that matter the majority of the East European countries that are currently being threatened by Russia as the next potential targets after Georgia, Ukraine and Moldova have nothing to do with your whataboutist view on this particular war.

 

You are advocating for civilian deaths and MORE ethnic cleansing all over countries that just happen to sit in that region thinking that you are somehow exempt from the responsibility for all of this but the rest of us aren't. You are advocating for worldwide STARVATION that Russia was threatening with this war and it mostly affects non Western countries. It's easy for you to comfortably look down on others and criticize when it isn't your life that is under threat. And yet you are from a terrorist state yourself as far as I could tell.

Edited August 23, 2022 by Illuminati

[katara]

17 hours ago, 808s said:

Wait you're balkan? Seems right, you always gave me strong balkan vibes

Wait how?

 

[Luckitty]

love seeing europe suffer  karma for what they did to the rest of the world 

[The7thStranger]

I'd rather have a miserable winter than continue European dependence on a government that wants the entire world to burn.

 

The real problem here is that European leaders chose to drag their feet when it came to renewable energy.

Edited August 23, 2022 by The7thStranger

[808s]

2 hours ago, katara said:

Wait how?

 

idk bestie

[Monceau]

1 hour ago, Luckitty said:

love seeing europe suffer  karma for what they did to the rest of the world 

record prices in energy and food hurt everyone not just europe

[Luckitty]

21 minutes ago, Monceau said:

record prices in energy and food hurt everyone not just europe

not me though I'm different 

[Horizon Flame]

Europe should have its own nuclear facilities by now. They should also have solar panels on homes. Europe is too damn dependent on other countries for everything. And Scotland believes it would survive a day without the UK. 

[Horizon Flame]

On 8/23/2022 at 1:09 AM, Gov Hooka said:

Lol, I mean this is what happens when you allow the US to dictate your foreign policy for you... USians will be fine and Europeans will pay the price of their countries meddling in the Russia Ukraine war... 

imagine supporting a murderous madman hellbent on starting WWIII.  They have concentration camps for gays, for goodness sake. What is wrong with you??!

[flower moon]

19 hours ago, Luckitty said:

love seeing europe suffer  karma for what they did to the rest of the world 

imagine thinking disgusting things like this about normal people just trying to live their lives

[Luckitty]

2 minutes ago, flower moon said:

imagine thinking disgusting things like this about normal people just trying to live their lives

they should untry 

Edited August 24, 2022 by Luckitty

[flower moon]

53 minutes ago, Luckitty said:

they should untry 

vile

[Chemist]

5 hours ago, Horizon Flame said:

Europe should have its own nuclear facilities by now. They should also have solar panels on homes. Europe is too damn dependent on other countries for everything. And Scotland believes it would survive a day without the UK. 

I am pro-nuclear but nuclear facilities literally failed this summer because there was not enough water fro refrigeration. More solar and wind are literally the ONLY solution at least for the next 10 years (until Fusion energy saves us from extinction )

[Gov Hooka]

On 8/23/2022 at 2:25 AM, Illuminati said:

Who was Ukraine invading though? Donbas was a peaceful region up until Russia invaded it in 2014. For that matter the majority of the East European countries that are currently being threatened by Russia as the next potential targets after Georgia, Ukraine and Moldova have nothing to do with your whataboutist view on this particular war.

 

You are advocating for civilian deaths and MORE ethnic cleansing all over countries that just happen to sit in that region thinking that you are somehow exempt from the responsibility for all of this but the rest of us aren't. You are advocating for worldwide STARVATION that Russia was threatening with this war and it mostly affects non Western countries. It's easy for you to comfortably look down on others and criticize when it isn't your life that is under threat. And yet you are from a terrorist state yourself as far as I could tell.

Is that why the US was heavily involved in the Euromaidan coup in 2014 that brought a proWestern government into power??? It's hilarious to me when apologists for Western led genocide, slavery, and neocolonialism bring up the term "whataboutism" to deflect from the fact that they truly do not have any moral standing to point fingers at Russia for what they are doing when their own governments which according to you are not "terrorist states" are actively committing ethnic cleansing in several countries and have destroyed entire nations in the last 20 years alone. This is why the entire global south sat out this little skirmish and didn't sanction Russia. The West and Nato aligned countries went back on several of their agreements made with the Post-Soviet Russian government and they very clearly drew this line and acknowledged that they would swiftly act if it was passed, Obama himself acknowledged this back in 2014, and here we are. 

[Gov Hooka]

8 hours ago, Horizon Flame said:

imagine supporting a murderous madman hellbent on starting WWIII.  They have concentration camps for gays, for goodness sake. What is wrong with you??!

pointing out Western hypocrisy and European self sabotage that serves USA economic/political interest = support of Putin... Gotcha  

[Illuminati]

38 minutes ago, Gov Hooka said:

Is that why the US was heavily involved in the Euromaidan coup in 2014 that brought a proWestern government into power??? It's hilarious to me when apologists for Western led genocide, slavery, and neocolonialism bring up the term "whataboutism" to deflect from the fact that they truly do not have any moral standing to point fingers at Russia for what they are doing when their own governments which according to you are not "terrorist states" are actively committing ethnic cleansing in several countries and have destroyed entire nations in the last 20 years alone. This is why the entire global south sat out this little skirmish and didn't sanction Russia. The West and Nato aligned countries went back on several of their agreements made with the Post-Soviet Russian government and they very clearly drew this line and acknowledged that they would swiftly act if it was passed, Obama himself acknowledged this back in 2014, and here we are. 

Why wouldn't they support it? It's clear to me that you don't even know about Euromaidan. It was a protest against their president committing treason. It was later emboldened by horrible police brutality and many civilian deaths. The current president of Ukraine isn't even the same as the one that was elected after Yanukovych fled to Russia.

You completely deflected from what I said about East European countries to continue pushing your story about the US/EU neocolonialism, you live there, why do you support it with your labor and money and then pretend like you aren't part of the problem but I am? I have my own issues with the US and the way you people get to look down on the rest of the world like you do now, pretending like you know better without actually having a clue.

You hijacked my post talking about why it's important to support Ukraine from having its entire population be subjected to concentration camps to say "**** those people and their lives" because you don't like, checks notes, France, EU and the westerners Lets fight bad with evil

Edited August 24, 2022 by Illuminati

[Gov Hooka]

28 minutes ago, Illuminati said:

Why wouldn't they support it? It's clear to me that you don't even know about Euromaidan. It was a protest against their president committing treason. It was later emboldened by horrible police brutality and many civilian deaths. The current president of Ukraine isn't even the same as the one that was elected after Yanukovych fled to Russia.

You completely deflected from what I said about East European countries to continue pushing your story about the US/EU neocolonialism, you live there, why do you support it with your labor and money and then pretend like you aren't part of the problem but I am? I have my own issues with the US and the way you people get to look down on the rest of the world like you do now, pretending like you know better without actually having a clue.

You hijacked my post talking about why it's important to support Ukraine from having its entire population be subjected to concentration camps to say "**** those people and their lives" because you don't like, checks notes, France, EU and the westerners Lets fight bad with evil

Eastern European countries can fight their own battles against Russia and if Western Europe wants to intervene on behalf of the US and kneecap themselves, by all means go for it lolll. The USA is insulated from all of this and is instigating it. To you, exploitation of the Ukrainian working class is okay so long as pro-Western oligarchs are in charge as opposed to pro-Russian oligarchs lmao and you wanna criticize me for allegedly fighting bad with evil. The Euromaidan protests were hijacked by US intelligence operations when they saw it as an opportunity to take over Ukraine, never mind the rise of far right Ukrainian nationalism in the wake of that movement. 

I am a colonized person living within the US borders, I have my own internal protests and actions against this murderous regime and illegitimate government. And if there's one thing i don't do, it's parrot and promote US state department talking points like you've done here. 

[Illuminati]

  

1 hour ago, Gov Hooka said:

Eastern European countries can fight their own battles against Russia and if Western Europe wants to intervene on behalf of the US and kneecap themselves, by all means go for it lolll. The USA is insulated from all of this and is instigating it. To you, exploitation of the Ukrainian working class is okay so long as pro-Western oligarchs are in charge as opposed to pro-Russian oligarchs lmao and you wanna criticize me for allegedly fighting bad with evil. The Euromaidan protests were hijacked by US intelligence operations when they saw it as an opportunity to take over Ukraine, never mind the rise of far right Ukrainian nationalism in the wake of that movement. 

I am a colonized person living within the US borders, I have my own internal protests and actions against this murderous regime and illegitimate government. And if there's one thing i don't do, it's parrot and promote US state department talking points like you've done here. 

And they are, NATO soldiers aren't on the ground in Ukraine. Again showing a big lack of understanding on what is even happening there.

 

What you do is completely ignore your own part in this and think that you get to be above all. You seem like the type of person who never votes but judges others on their picks. You don't have to illegitimize other peoples trauma as they're being colonized and deported just because you disagree with a party that's helping them. Your Western imaginary view of East Europeans as puppets in your game with no desires or decisions of our own is dehumanizing. You think they're just being exploited so it's better to let them die meanwhile they are there begging for their voices to not be silenced as their future crumbles in front of them.

 

To somehow turn this back around about France and Macron, fact is that they tried to reason with Putin on many occasions, they still do. But Kremlin and Putin have no desire to stop the war at Crimea, Donbas, or even the entirety of Ukraine. They have made it clear on more than one occasion that their ambitions are far larger than that and no longer have anything to do with the NATO expansion.

Edited August 24, 2022 by Illuminati

[Gov Hooka]

1 hour ago, Illuminati said:

  

And they are, NATO soldiers aren't on the ground in Ukraine. Again showing a big lack of understanding on what is even happening there.

 

What you do is completely ignore your own part in this and think that you get to be above all. You seem like the type of person who never votes but judges others on their picks. You don't have to illegitimize other peoples trauma as they're being colonized and deported just because you disagree with a party that's helping them. Your Western imaginary view of East Europeans as puppets in your game with no desires or decisions of our own is dehumanizing. You think they're just being exploited so it's better to let them die meanwhile they are there begging for their voices to not be silenced as their future crumbles in front of them.

 

To somehow turn this back around about France and Macron, fact is that they tried to reason with Putin on many occasions, they still do. But Kremlin and Putin have no desire to stop the war at Crimea, Donbas, or even the entirety of Ukraine. They have made it clear on more than one occasion that their ambitions are far larger than that and no longer have anything to do with the NATO expansion.

NATO weapons are being dumped into Ukraine at unprecedented rates. The US is approving historic levels of military aid to Ukraine... The US/West have gone back on multiple agreements made between the new Russian federation gov (back when Yeltsin was buddy buddy with the West after the collapse of the Soviet Union) about not expanding Nato further east, and repeatedly reneged on those agreements... 

 

The rest of your post reads like pure projection lol. The irony is that you're advocating for continuing a military action that is quite literally using Ukrainians as puppets in a fight between Russia and the West without even, as you have so aptly pointed out, putting their own soldiers in the fight. My view is very opposed to the dominant view in the US that Putin is solely bad and everything short of nuclear war (though some are even pushing for that) should be done to stop him... Like I said, if Western Europeans want to pay the price for Ukrainian "freedom," whatever the hell that means, or "democracy" when their governments are doing the same things to Global South nations, all in service for the US, the most genocidal terrorist state on the planet rn then go for it.

[Illuminati]

8 minutes ago, Gov Hooka said:

NATO weapons are being dumped into Ukraine at unprecedented rates. The US is approving historic levels of military aid to Ukraine... The US/West have gone back on multiple agreements made between the new Russian federation gov (back when Yeltsin was buddy buddy with the West after the collapse of the Soviet Union) about not expanding Nato further east, and repeatedly reneged on those agreements... 

 

The rest of your post reads like pure projection lol. The irony is that you're advocating for continuing a military action that is quite literally using Ukrainians as puppets in a fight between Russia and the West without even, as you have so aptly pointed out, putting their own soldiers in the fight. My view is very opposed to the dominant view in the US that Putin is solely bad and everything short of nuclear war (though some are even pushing for that) should be done to stop him... Like I said, if Western Europeans want to pay the price for Ukrainian "freedom," whatever the hell that means, or "democracy" when their governments are doing the same things to Global South nations, all in service for the US, the most genocidal terrorist state on the planet rn then go for it.

Ukraine is WILLING but can't even purchase the weapons directly from the manufacturers at the rate that they need them because nobody makes them that fast, the game is rigged against them. Do you know why NATO expanded Eastward and how difficult it was for each new country to apply? NATO has always been an elite group of Westerners where every newcomer had more or less beg and prove themselves worthy to participate, similar to EU and there's plenty of countries still pending to join. It wasn't like the US was recruiting countries to absorb for the next war with Russia It took my country like 13 years since the talks began. And the ONLY reason to apply was to prevent this from happening, rightfully so because the threats from Russia never stopped. You are right to say that US is insulated and away from all of this, I can safely assume you have never even felt such imminent threat to your countrys safety to understand the importance of this to people around here.

 

With the recent applications from Sweden and Finland Russia has entirely dropped "NATO expansion" as an excuse for Ukraine war because it was never about it and they don't care about the Northern countries joining it. They throw everything at the wall and see what sticks with the media without ever worrying about contradicting themselves.

 

Russia's imminent existential threat is decreasing population, Europe moving away from gas and oil to renewables and growing competition from countries nearby, NOT invasion from capitalist countries that are deeply economically connected. Even Russians themselves don't believe half of the state propaganda points that you do.